Another M42 engine build

[E30J]

How much power are you expecting to get from this build?

[mabeer]

How much power are you expecting to get from this build?

At this point I just hope it runs :-)   What's the general consensus for an M47 crank with mild head work? 160? 

[djmossm42]

Sorry about that, will do.

[mabeer]

Sorry about that, will do.

Hey, I don't mind, it all flows.

[wazzu70]

Good to know about the Schrick buckets!

Also, great choice on the front timing cover without the idler. I wish I knew about this when I built my motor!

[Warsteiner]

mabeer.....No idea what kind of power you're gonna make. It all depends on your tuning and if you put all the right parts together to make your motor sing    Your build looks somewhat similar to mine. I have an 86mm bore. I also have the 6mm valve stems and ported head. You're still going to run AFM? I would suggest getting bigger injectors and a good tune!! *From my own experience ...The stock inj's are only 19.5#'s. (19.5x10.5=204.75cc's) Mine cleaned came in at 204cc. If we take the 21's (21x10.5=220.5cc's) That's a different story. Not saying they can't be, I just don't see a freshly cleaned set only putting out 204cc's vs 220cc's. Just my .02. All good. If you plan on staying with stockers please have them professionally cleaned and flowed and then you'll know where you're at. I'm running 24#'s in my car with about 256-260cc's. Better safe than sorry. I also have stock FPR.
With the right tune you should see more than 160hp at the crank. I'm still tuning mine and will get a dyno tune soon. bmwman91 and I are going to have a dyno sheet dual when we both give our cars the final tune. Mabeer, you can jump in on that one too. I just have one slight edge....ok, maybe two or three but we shall see

Cheers,
~Ralph

[djmossm42]

Sorry about that, will do.

Hey, I don't mind, it all flows.

Thanks, I've been considering having a motor built, it would be for street/canyon/track use.  I am very new to this realm but have a good general understanding as well as been slowly educating myself through threads like this. 

In the video it mentioned the M60 trays allow use of a lighter valvetrain and results in a higher revving engine.  How does it affect the torque/hp curves?  Personally I would want to gain more bottom end torque while keeping as much of the top end liveliness as possible.  I like the characteristics of the M42 and wouldn't want to change it much other than making it more powerful.  Ideally I'd like to make a 2.0L and achieve 200HP.

I like your thinking in building it bottom up, its more future proof. You can always add to it.

Good luck with your build, looking forward to the outcome!

[mabeer]

mabeer.....No idea what kind of power you're gonna make. It all depends on your tuning and if you put all the right parts together to make your motor sing    Your build looks somewhat similar to mine. I have an 86mm bore. I also have the 6mm valve stems and ported head. You're still going to run AFM? I would suggest getting bigger injectors and a good tune!! *From my own experience ...The stock inj's are only 19.5#'s. (19.5x10.5=204.75cc's) Mine cleaned came in at 204cc. If we take the 21's (21x10.5=220.5cc's) That's a different story. Not saying they can't be, I just don't see a freshly cleaned set only putting out 204cc's vs 220cc's. Just my .02. All good. If you plan on staying with stockers please have them professionally cleaned and flowed and then you'll know where you're at. I'm running 24#'s in my car with about 256-260cc's. Better safe than sorry. I also have stock FPR.
With the right tune you should see more than 160hp at the crank. I'm still tuning mine and will get a dyno tune soon. bmwman91 and I are going to have a dyno sheet dual when we both give our cars the final tune. Mabeer, you can jump in on that one too. I just have one slight edge....ok, maybe two or three but we shall see

Cheers,
~Ralph

I've got the stock AFM cleaned and reconditioned by Gregs///M.  I'm not sure if he's here but he is on R3V.  Injectors were serviced and flow tested by Linder Tech in Indianapolis.
 


I'm not sure how the 50 MLS converts, any idea?   At any rate I agree they will be too small.  My guestimates of 165 crank hp show 24lb/hr to be about right.  Of course I'm guessing at two major variables  - HP & brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) so like I said - guestimate.

As for a tune. Barry @ midnight tuning suggested an Ostrich 2.0 and his software with a base xdf file then I can play with fuel & spark.  I was hoping there would be some option for data logging or remote access but apparently not and I'll have to learn a thing or two.  I don't have anything yet, but I suppose I better make a decision soon, so if any one has some input I'd love to hear it.  Korman did burn a chip for the Schrick cam but with the stroker I don't think it will be any better than stock.  With as many people that have done this type of build I naively thought there might be something available "off the shelf".

As for the Dyno challenge, I suppose if you need someone to come in a distant third I'm up for it.   I have no idea where to go around here to prove my last place finish.

[wazzu70]

If you guys need a last place finish, I'm your guy!!

I think the Ostrich and the tune from Barry would be the most painless way to go. Tweaking the fuel and spark maps is pretty easy, people get frustrated dialinig in the starting parameters, acceleration enrichment, idle ect. on a standalone.

If you want to go standalone there are a few "cost consious" options. There is Megasquirt and VEMS. I have the starting parameters figured out for VEMS and I have been helping some guys on R3v dial in their MS setups.

If you go MS, get a fully built and tested unit to eliminate many headaches. Most problems I help people resolve from MS are hardware related because there was a mistake putting the unit together. IMO building it yourself is a silly way to try and save money. Start with something you know works!

[mabeer]

If you guys need a last place finish, I'm your guy!!

I think the Ostrich and the tune from Barry would be the most painless way to go.

By a "tune from Barry" you mean his xdf file as a starting point?  Because he said to do an actual tune he would need car in hand.

If you had to do it over again would you go MS or are you glad you still went with VEMS?

[wazzu70]

If Barry just sets you up with an xdf, make sure you have a local tuner who wants to use the program. If you dont have a tuner who wants to use the software, this path won't do you a ton of good.

Personally I prefer VEMS over MS. I like the hardware and software better, but I know it better so its more comfortable for me. MS and TunerStudio work just fine. The key if you aren't planning on tuning it yourself is finding someone who you want to tune the car and use a system they prefer that matches your budget. Forcing a tuner to use hardware/software they aren't familiar with/wanting to learn rarely has good results

If you go MS or VEMS people here can get you going with a base configuration.

[Warsteiner]

If you want to get into tuning your car then go for it. If you don't have the time or patience or have no idea what you're doing, then I agree with Nick and find a reputable tuner in your area and find out what they prefer to use. There is no harm in asking if they would do a different kind but see how receptive they are to the idea.
MS is ok I suppose. I just passed NJ state inspection with flying colors. HC was 40 and 220ppm allowed. CO was 0 and 1.2 allowed. Goes to show if you have a half way decent tune and you have stellar cats then there is no reason not to pass emissions.
Mabeer, I would ask Linder what the flow was on your inj's. It's just a phone call to get the details and then you know where you stand.
I never met Barrie but from all the posts that I've seen and a few PM's back and forth with him he is a great guy that is willing to help anyone. If you want to play then get the tune from him. He may even be able to help you even further without having the car. You'll have to send files back and forth for him to look at.
So I guess we are having a contest to see who finishes last.....hahaha  I need to fine tune mine. It runs well but the MAP and the ITB's and cams are throwing me off. My cruise is way up in the map at 90+kPa. So I need to figure out the correct scaling in kPa vs RPM for the timing and AFR maps. I'd rather run MAP than A-N only because of temps but I have to see if I can do a blend. I've only had it up to 5K in 5th and it pulls really well. I have the rev limiter set low now at 7K but will probably set it at 7.5K

Cheers,
~Ralph

[mabeer]

Well Ralph to answer your questions regarding tuning.   The car will have been off the road for a year.  My priority right now is to get it on the road, make sure its not going to burn things up running too lean and let Bryce have fun until he's off to school.   That's assuming I can't find a local tuner.  After he's gone I'll definitely give it a go.  Do I know what I'm doing?  I haven't a clue.  I'm so stupid I don't even know what questions to ask, but I look forward to learning    But yeah, right now I don't have the time or any idea whats what.

In my dreams Barry sees this thread and says, Mike no worries get the emulator and my xdf, do this that and the other thing, pay me a consulting fee, send me the files, I'll tweek them and make sure you're cool.  I don't care about peak numbers at this point just safety margins and decent drive-ability.  The chip from Korman has the head covered not sure if the system will adjust for the stroke.

Linder flows like I thought 50 MILS (or cc's) in 15 seconds so 50 X4 = 200cc/min.

Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?



Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[Slowered318]

Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?

That sure looks better than dried flowers or those stupid woven wicker balls.

You should make a matching side table/wine rack. http://www.chromjuwelen.com/en/network/320-hooniversecom/150455-project-et-02-bmw-engine-block-table.html

[wazzu70]

Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?

That sure looks better than dried flowers or those stupid woven wicker balls.

You should make a matching side table/wine rack. http://www.chromjuwelen.com/en/network/320-hooniversecom/150455-project-et-02-bmw-engine-block-table.html

So true. I have a nice M50b25 piston with a bit of conrod attached I retrieved from a failed race motor on my desk!

If you enjoy tinkering, tuning is fun. I have learned a lot through reading and doing. There is no replacement for actually doing versus reading. Down the road it would probably be a good path if you want to learn. You can always get help from a few here and other forums.

That said, you could do some fiddling to a Barrie base tune after your son does not need the car daily. I think he should be able to get you a good conservative tune to get you rolling pretty easy. This would by far be the best way to get the car running ASAP.