Author Topic: Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp  (Read 156636 times)

wazzu70

  • Nasty Nick
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 18
  • Posts: 671
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #165 on: June 08, 2012, 11:34:09 PM »
Glad to see things still progressing!
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2012, 02:30:27 PM »
Yeah, I am sometiems suprised mysefl that this thing is still going on :o

Airbox and intake trumpets are almost ready. Still must weld in IAT sensor bung and tubes for idle and intake hoses.



Not the most hitech or elegant solution but should work well as iteration 1. Intake trumpets are optimized to match rev limiter of 7200-7500 rpm. Airbox volume is about largest we could get on sensible use of space and effort to make sure engine has plenty of high pressure air available at all times.

Mega and wb lamdba are in but not tested yet. Going back tomorrow to finalize OEM harness modifications. We might be able to finalize vacuum rail but sadly new EV6 injectors are too short to be used with any of the available fuel rails. We might be able to test start with old injectors. Before any serious running alternator must be attached and breather tank installed.

It's getting there...

bmwman91

  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
    • http://www.e30tuner.com/
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2012, 03:23:18 PM »
WOW, that is a gigantic air box! Could you give a little info on how you determined trumpet length (design equations?) and why you are after the largest possible plenum? Where will you fit an air filter?!

Awesome project. I have been having fun following it.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

MLM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 10
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • My M42 ITB Project
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2012, 05:15:49 PM »
Nice work, been watching this for a long time and inspired me to have a go too though im not finished either as I seem to be working on the same timeline as you haha.

What i have found which may interest you is from analysis i found some "gains" from playing with trumpet angle relative to inlet direction so that inlet flow to the airbox didnt preferentially feed a particular runner (edit or shadow the runner behind. Depends on plenum entry etc though). Maybe useful for later itterations.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 08:01:13 PM by MLM »

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2012, 05:16:50 PM »
Quote from: bmwman91;113126
WOW, that is a gigantic air box! Could you give a little info on how you determined trumpet length (design equations?) and why you are after the largest possible plenum? Where will you fit an air filter?!

Awesome project. I have been having fun following it.


Yeah, it is pretty sizeable... Removing alternator and power steering pump gave room to expand downwards :D

This is Alfa Romeo 155 Supertouring engine + airbox:



That is pretty large too.

I did not start to calculate resonant frequencies for this design. Most things pointed to direction that larger is better because it acts as reservoir after air filter from where intake trumpets suck air to engine with almost zero restriction. If the airbox would be very small, all the air going to cylinder should be immediately replaced air sucked through filter and there is perhaps tiny bit of restriction there. Large airbox should smooth out those pulses.

With smaller one you could perhaps tune it to certain frequency to help cylinder filling at some rev range. I might do that after I got the thing running to see if it should be made bit larger or smaller.

Trumpets are simply sized after S50B30 (200 mm trumpet / limiter 7300 rpm) and S50B32 ( trumpet 150 mm / limiter 7600 rpm) trumpets. This "stock" engine is going to be limited to around 7300-7500 so trumpet lenght is simply halfway between those ie. 175 mm. M42 has slightly larger individual cylinder displacement but that should not affect tuning effect that much.

I also calculated harmonic resonant frequencies (ie revs) on spreadsheet for all of those engines and OEM trumpet lenghts and theory seemed hold well.

Air filter is K&N with 100 mm inside diameter and we made flange between it and 100 mm flexible hose. Similar flange will be fitter to front or bottom of the airbox so I can move filter around to find best location. One idea is to make filter enclosure below radiator to take in air from lower large opening on front bumper.

wazzu70

  • Nasty Nick
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 18
  • Posts: 671
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2012, 06:34:47 PM »
Look up Helmoltz wave equations for tuning lengths. I will have to look around for an old writeup but I have a spreadsheet I made for calculating.
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

bmwman91

  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
    • http://www.e30tuner.com/
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #171 on: June 11, 2012, 06:58:49 PM »
Yeah, modeling things as HH resonators is a place to start. The real trick is in finding the phase of the wave at the end (valve) rather than just the resonant frequency though, correct? You want a positive pressure peak to coincide with the valve when it is opening.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

MLM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 10
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • My M42 ITB Project
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2012, 07:57:08 PM »
plenum volume is arguable on a itb setup as its the entire volume after the throttle plate until the filter?

Larger to reduce restriction is a good way to go however, too large and the volume of air inside heatsoaks (very well through ali) and is not replaced fast enough to stay cool which works against you.  High speed/rpm prob not a issue, standing starts or rolling start may bog the engine once the throttle opens untill cool air reaches the engine.

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #173 on: June 18, 2012, 03:50:05 PM »
Car is back on it's feet but not yet running, need bit of vacuum hose, modification to DIY vacuum rail and then I can test if engine starts with megasquirt.


ose30

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2012, 01:18:03 AM »
Asiallista duunia :)

romkasponka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #175 on: June 20, 2012, 11:22:50 AM »
Looks dangerous! :)
Where have you sourced rear spoiler? I want one for my daily car :D
E30 318is M42
E36 318is M44

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #176 on: June 22, 2012, 08:11:39 AM »
Quote from: romkasponka;113278
Looks dangerous! :)
Where have you sourced rear spoiler? I want one for my daily car :D


It's OEM part and it belongs to M3 GT and 318is Class II homologation models. They pop up occasionally on german eBay, mine came with the car :cool:

I think mine will become redundant soon when I replace trunk lid with glassfiber one. At some point I hope to build much bigger and effective wing that connects to car frame instead of trunk lid...

romkasponka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #177 on: June 22, 2012, 08:29:11 AM »
Why not STW spoiler?
http://www.raceparts.biz/bmw-e36/
High downforce version available...

IMHO big spoiler like E46 GTR with really big downforce will ruin your top speed if you will try to go faster than 200km/h.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 08:34:30 AM by romkasponka »
E30 318is M42
E36 318is M44

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #178 on: June 22, 2012, 12:26:10 PM »
Quote from: romkasponka;113307
Why not STW spoiler?
http://www.raceparts.biz/bmw-e36/
High downforce version available...

IMHO big spoiler like E46 GTR with really big downforce will ruin your top speed if you will try to go faster than 200km/h.


STW wing is not very effective, it's dimensions and I suspect profile were restricted by Supertouring rules...

Tracks we have here in Finland are pretty slow and there are no long straights. On my favourite track my car does around 150 kmh on fastest place and average speed is 110 km/h. To have any kind of significant downforce you need plenty of wing/splitter area.

romkasponka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #179 on: June 22, 2012, 03:00:03 PM »
You are right, seems you know why aircraft fly ;)

What amount of downforce from rear spoiler you want?
E30 318is M42
E36 318is M44