m44/m42 spec rally engine

[Autotec.at]

Hey Sion,

i forgot to mention, i'm even not allowed to raise the ccm, so i MUST stay at 1800ccm.
Our Rally regulations are a bit shitty.

So i try to make the best of it. As we all know 1800ccm will never be a torque-monster... :-)
Thats why i'm trying to find someone who has experince in a 1800ccm powerbuild.

Thanks
David

[sh123]

I havent much to update on this thread. nothing much has happened recently other than getting my car ready for the engine. so its now baisiclly ready for the engine to go straight in other than re routing the fuel lines as I used to have braidied lines running inside but they made the car smell of petrol. so now gone for copper lines, andalso I will need to re route the coolant pipes, which I cant do until the engine is in really.

The only update on the engine is that its first inline to be put together in january. I didnt want to go to much into it with my builder as I do not want harras him haha. but maybe it should be back with me by end of january or feb? we shall see.

In the meantime ive aquired this:





Now what do I fit in this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVino9WOZmI

[jerseytim]

very nice, i was interested in that compact, looks like a nice shell. i might be getting some m42 2500cc cranks and rods if you want to keep it 4 pot and stage rally it

[sh123]

Thank you tim!

Im very interested in the crank and rod! Any more info? Pm me if you like! Last thing i want to do is stick a heavy 6 cyl in her!! Even if the power is 300bhp+

Cheers
Sion

[sh123]

not much to update, just a few pics ive been sent across, over past few weeks, builder says engine should be done end of this week.
Got a few things done on the car over the weekend, such as finished the mounts for the bigger radiator, made a new mount for a vw expansion tank, So now the car is more or less ready for the engine to be put back in 

Also been in touch with a company called thinkauto, who say they have m42 and m44 take off adapters that replace the screw on caps for the oil filter, they say they should be on sale early this year. so once they are available ill fit an oil cooler to the engine. and im about to order the bits I need for a COP conversion once im done uploading these pics









And to finnish, some new wheels ive chucked on the car 

[Darky]

Nice Sion

You boring it yourself?

very nice, i was interested in that compact, looks like a nice shell. i might be getting some m42 2500cc cranks and rods if you want to keep it 4 pot and stage rally it

2500 cc crank?
Hartge made a 2350 cc but massive out of square.

Cheers Rohan

[sh123]

No, these are just pictures ive been sent from the engine builder.

Sion

[sh123]

had some bad yet good news today, had a email off the builder asking what i had planned for the rods forthis engine. He had asked once or twice before. So I gave him a call and he offered me a set of rods with arp bolts. I asked do I need them andif standard should be fine as obviosuly I had read on the forums standard should be good. anyway cut a long story short he foundthe small ends of  the rods had gone on a couple. so I decided to take the plunge and upgrade the rods.

So looks like I should have a pretty good bottom end now. so Ive been researching quite a bit to see if I can get the head to rev higher in the future.

obviously me running the m44 I am at a disadvantage. and seemed at the time alot of fettling to get the m42 head to run on m44 management. which at the moment im kinda regretting.

What I have found though is that ford pinto's running 8-9000rpm and 200-225bhp actualy upgrade their valvetrain to roller bearing followers. which I am a bit confused.

Is it the roller bearing thats at fault? the actual finger/follower that doesnt like high revs? or what I have noticed is that they do not run hydraulic tappets. And the follower actually sits on a adjustable ball stud.

some input would be great. I dont want to mention this to my builder as I have spent enough on my build for now. so this will be a further stage to my build to get it to rev higher on itb's

anyway.....

[MoMansi]

just my 2cents, the mitsubishi EVOs run the roller bearing valve train and they rev like crazy, and i still don't know where the myth of "this valve train doesn't like revs" come from?

even the S54 doesn't run hydraulic buckets but the roller bearing valve train but a bit differently....

[sh123]

I have seen you mention the evo head a few times which is interesting.

2 things worry me about the m44 head

1: is the actualy roller follower up to it? it seems flimsy, what are bmw ones like compared to evo?
2: is the tappets up to it? have you any specs on the evo one?

I have done a lot of googling on this tonight, few pointers that seems to be said

roller bearing followers on different make cars seems to be a updgrade done further down the line in abuild, and i read somewhere are used on f1 cars?

[MoMansi]

i'm sorry, i'm afraid i have no specs regarding them except for my driving experience, i had a mitsubishi colt before that had the 4G92 MIVEC engine it was 1.6 litre with 170HP that revved almost to 8000 rpm with no problem at all, it had that same rocker roller bearing valve train, and i've never heard about any problems concerning that design in those engines.

[Darky]

Still love pictures of that crank!

[wazzu70]

I think the main reason people say the M44 head cannot handle higher revs is because the OEM cams are an economy grind and dont support high end power. Most say there is no point in revving high because you wont make any power...which is true.

If you switch to a nice cam grind made for higher rpm power I dont think you will have issues. The mitsu cam follower system is very similar. You would need to put them side by side to do a good comparison though. The mitsu cam followers are very similar as are the hydraulic adjusters. EVO guys replace the hydraulic adjusters at a point to solid adjusters, but I think that is pretty high up in the rev range that becomes necessary. If you shot just for a nice full power band up to 8k the factory equipment should suffice.

I attached pictures of the M44 followers and the EVO8 followers. EVO picture has the adjustable piece

[sh123]

Darky i do love pictures of this crank as well. Haha.

Thank you wazzu for your input. Much appreciated. 

After momansi mentioned the evo followers i did some research and found that piper cams in the uk do the solid lifter kit for the evos. And I have also found dimensions for the hydraulic tappets in the evo. So I will mention it to my builder before he puts the head together to measure the tappets. Hopefully ill be able to sort something.

This work however wont happen until the shell is ready. Because if I am happy with the engine, it will have a second stage of build. With larger valves. More aggressive cams.

But again as you mentioned wazzu if standard tappets should be good for 8k then i wont bother going for solid tappets

[wazzu70]

Solid lifters/adjusters sound cool, but its a real PITA. If hydraulic works fine, its so much easier

Looking at the Catcams site the grinds available for M44 do not require solid lash adjustment. You can always call and discuss, but it looks like you should put your money into valve springs and retainers and not worry about the hydraulic adjusters.