My Rotrex build going for 300bhp+

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Hi just thought i'd add this to the forum, its tacken from the e30zone so some of you will have seen it already but for the otheres here it is.

Some of it might not make sense as its copyied and may have answeres to other peoples questions.

Well with the coming of winter comes another project how ever this time the targets alot higher than it was before  and this time the engine is going to be rebuilt low comp by Ant to make sure its capable of handaling the large amount of boost needed to reach my BHP goal.

What is the goal??? well if VAG 20v T's can get to 300bhp with not much in the way of major tuning then i can 't see why with alot of work, due to it being a older engine, i cant get mine to 280-300 brake.

Heres a Current pic of the car for anyone who's intrested


I'm still going to be sticking to the Superchargers and not swopping to turbos as i love the whine and the way theres instant boost with the superchargers.

So far i've been gathering a few bits togeather ready to start doing things when i take the car off the road in winter, so far ive bought two iner coolers, one saab and one Volvo type, both simular but with different porting.

Unfortunatly neither of them will be able to satnd the high boost pressure with out balloning and then blowing the end atnks off so i'm going to  use them to mock up the set up and then get an ally one made to the sime size so i know it will fit in with out having to modify the carsfront pannels.

Been busy at work to making a stainless swedish style inlet plenum although it would be better made of ally i dont have access to a ally welder or ally for that matter. i'll get some pics up when i can,

I've also bought all the pullys to swop the M42 "V" belts to M43 flat belts this means if  i needed to i could use the same belt to run the charger as other ancillerys, wether this is a good idea or not i dont know  as least if i had two belts if the supercharger belt snapped the water pump and alternator would still be working if in needed to say limp the car to the next service station.

The two next big things to sort out are the lower compression ratio and the supercharge trim.

ive been speaking to a company called TTS performance who are the distibutor for Rotex chargers in the UK and they have suggested i go for the biggest one they do in the C30 range the -94 size as this will do 250-400 bhp range , alittle larger than the one i thought i'd need the -84 that runs 200-320bhp but the lad i spoke to seamed to realy know his product and also had good knowledge of the other kits and cars that they have charged in he past and what charger they used to get what power.

The same lad suggested i only drop the Cr to 9.5:1 as he use  the same setup (-94 trim) on civics running 10:1 however to me this still seams alittle high for me as i was thinkin more along the lines of 8.5:1 however maybe the middle ground of 9:1 would be better?

think i'am going to need to be running around 20psi boost to get to 280-300bhp

Any one got anythoughts? all help and advise welcome

Heres a few pics of the inlet maifold i've started making up

First cut up some3" 45 and 90 degree pipe bend to make half sections using an angle grider and then a flap pad to finish the edge off, heres them just mocked up.

 

next thing was to tack them togeather and stich weld the bottom of the pipe work to a big section of box to make sure it keeps it shape when welding and doesnt distort. then i tacked the middle section in the top to joint the 45 and the 90 bend to geather



And heres a pic of it nearly ready for welding, just got to tack in the other plate. Making the top and bottom plates was a pain in the ass but i think the patiants has pain off as they fit realy well and will make welding them in easyer





look what turned up at work when i got back from site today!

Looks a a realy nice bit of kit, only thing that i would change on it is to have bigger bolts than 4 M6's to hold it on to the bracket.

heres the pics, very compact, its a c30-94 the biggest they do in the c30 range 250-400bhp









the two intercoolers i bought off ebay also came ones from a saab and has 45degree doward inlet and outlets and the others a Volvo one with 90degree inlet and outlets.

The Volvo one



The Saab one, larger flow channels ( if thats what there called) but smaller in depth and has slightly smaller inlets.



Lastly the two togeather the Saab one in front.



 :cool:

Done a bit more to the plenum at the weekend and managed to get it welded up, had to cut the large opening of it to make it fit correctly as the angle was all wrong and made the inlet point to the fop of theinner wing, it alot better now but i still think it could do with a 45d bend pionting down to make it line through



A rough idea as to how the inlet will fit and were the supercharger will go

[Appletree IS supercharged]

had abit of spare time to day so set up a "work bench" much to the girlfreinds dislike :evil: and stripped the housing off the charger to rotate it as the oil  in-out has to be at the top of the gearbox.



Inside the rotrex



With a bit of space to draw things out and work on another spare IS engine ( i now have 4, cheers Kedge) i was able to start making a mock up of the mount from ply-wood.

The motor mount



Afew pics of how it will al sit, the mount will be made of two parts which will be bolted togeather at the 90d bend.







Ya its a good idea as its easyer to work with, costs less and means you get a realy good idea were things will fit

Ive had to re-think the outlet position/direction as it ment the pipe work would be very close to the power steering pump.

origanaly i had planned to run the pipe work streight down to below the PAS pump then through a 90 bend forward then a 90 right to get to the driverside of the car then a 90 in to the intercooler.

With the new position with the new positon pointing upwards i need a 135d bend streight after the charger pointing diagonaly down to the bottom front  of the drivers side then through a 45d bend to the intercooler which i think will be better and will also mean i have more space to work. all this means is i will have to heat wrap the pipe work as it will be passing were the viscous fan used to be behind the rad.

Heres some pics of the final mounting position using the wood mock up, hopefully ill get some 10mm plate at the week end and start on the final metal one.







Going to be nice to swop back to the original resivours for the pass and the brakes as i had to swop them for the first set up, think they're off a Cav turbo





Heres two pick of the bracket/mount this will be made from two peices of mild steel welded at the corner and then a gusset made to brace from the front to the back of the mount to reinforce it and then maybe a pair of ribs under neath.






Also got my 540 v8 throttle body today, post some picks up later its massive! maybe to big! :?


Little bit more progress today, managed to get a belt from halfords that fitted perfectaly, its lucky its the right size as the only other 6V belts were twice as long.

Heres the picture to show the belt run and were tensioner will go althought the tensioner will be adjustable and will be mounted on the outside of the belt with the roller inboard

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Not sure wether to use the standard power steering belt or keep the flat belt i'am running at the minute as the standard belt gives more space


Few pics of the progress ive made this week and last weekend.

A pic of the charger on the wooden mount with my new silicone bends showing the rough path of the pipeing as its got to get to the otherside of the car.





After the wooden template showed the mount would work ok i set too and started to make it out of metal.

had to use the big lathe at work as dads was to small at home.



fare sized chuck as you can see! nearly gave my self a hernia lifting it on!




A few pics of the mount made up, i decided to bolt the mount togeather as i realy didnt want it to distort throught the heat of being welded.

Just dropped a square over it and its as square as a square thing!

Just need to drill the holes for the charger to bolt to it now as i need to check the angle of the charger as they have to sit level within 15degrees  

The pics









 :cool:


.


A quick pic of the metal bracket mounted to the engine, ive had to use so 30mm spacers between the block and the plate to make  the plate miss the oil filter housing.

But here it is anyway,


No this is bolted on ive been able to work out were 15degrees off level is and drill the mounting holes for the charger, so thats another little bit done

Ive been working away on site again and had a nice suprise when i got back! shainey bits :cool:


My intercooler i orderd from the link "e30 turbo" posted had come as well as a very nice turbosmart BOV

The BOV was quite dear and once i bought it i did think how much better could this be than a forge or bailey item?? well the answer is alot better you realy can see the difference in quality  i also managed to get the 25mm fitting kit for the valve which will help the flow of boosted air better.

Only thing i do want for it is another trumpet instead of the part recirc port.

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Been working on the car all day and ive got the front valance cut to suit the intercooler and the intercooler mounted. to say its tight is an understatement!

i tryed to fit it the other way up but the problem is theres not enough gap to fit the 3" deep core in, you might gataway with a 2.5" one, so i had to fit it the other way round!

ive had to remove the inside head lights, does any one have any ideas how i can run a all in one  head light in the out side slot??

Do you need them both for an MOT?  

Anyway heres a few pics :cool:  

heres the bracket for the bottom made from a  bit of stain less angle.


The front pannel cut primed, painted and waxoyled




As You will see from the pics got some good work done. proved some bits i made fitted and made some more

heres make shift work shop at my dads house as its been raining all day! not that i made much difference it was still freezing Cant wait till i get my gararge built at my house. :cool:




Got my 3" to 2 1/2" reducers in the post on friday so i cut them down and they fit great! bit tight but then a miss is a miss .


Started working on the boost pipe work to get the boost to the drivers side of the car, lucky i got some bends from work on friday!

Taped them togeather tightly with electrical tape then cut a hole in the tape and made a mark incase they moved, its also nice to get a few tacks on the pipe while its still held in place. the tape is suprisingly strong and works well, did my exhaust the same.





Ignore the blue top hose this was just to stop the coolent running out when i undid the pipe so i could work out how to run the boost pipe.





Heres the pipe all tacked up by me ready to be welded by some one who knows what there doing

I was thinking of polishing all the pipe work up but i think due to the position of the pipe i might heat rap it or use some of that reflective tape they use on the jap stuff when its all packed in, we'll see...




I was even able to fit the origonal top hose with the new pipe work although it is quite close so i might just add an "S" bend near the thermostat housing to give a little room.

You can also see a possble position for the airfilter its low down and in the bay but requires next to no pipework leaves lots of room for the chargers oil pump and filter but it wont have the best coole air flow.


And this is the other possible location more "conventional" but requires some difficult pipe work to keep the bonnet able to shut and not reub on the inner wing :?

This is the way i'd like to do it i just hope i can make it look good and not foul anything


Think if i add another 45d bend after the 90 it will get the filter pointin down nicely, if it does pipe up ok i think ill do that pipein black crackel paint

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Well, i decided to change the angle of the  chrager as i was no longer needed to run the boost to the lower corner and would give a better oil supply to the charger due to the angle.

Problem was this then changed the length of the pipe work on the top run so i cut a section out of it and then re tacked it up.

When i went to work to tack it up i rang one of the welders and he talked me through how to purge it and weld it properly. what do you think to the results?? winkeye


just ran round this with a soft polishing wheel to remove the heat marking.


this is the result of purging a pipe, you dont get it coking up.

And its not a blocked bog as my dad thought its the inside of the pipe


Finished welded pipework.

Induction to the charger


Charger to intercooler


both togeather


Bought my self a new throttle body, it from a m30 b30 from a 7series, just need to make an adaptor plate so it can take the new style throttle POT.





The pipes fitted on the car tonight.  :cool: Once ive decided where the other pipes need to go in to the pipes i'll have a go at welding them on and then polish all the pipes and see how they look.

[nuvolarossa]

I love you and your friends building the tvr damn, I must go out because it's late... tomorrow will watch closely all your pics!
 
great work! I'm subscribed!

[318kid]

This looks so awesome. How much boost are you going to be running? Good Luck!

[rob_e30]

I'm curious about the runners you are using with the intake plenum and about how you decided on the dimensions and volume of the plenum...

It looks like you are using the stock bottom runners from the OEM manifold, do you have any pics of the plenum where it meets the runners?  I'm curious about how you plan to assemble it.

I'd also like to know what were the factors you considered in the actual plenum lay out.  Did you consider runner diameter to and the distance to the top and bottom walls, total voulme, etc.?

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Sorry rob but the plenums the only bit i havent put much thought in to yet other than to make it 4ltrs which i did alittle research about and found some info on the design of it for a N/A build, other than that ive been making it from pictures of prefesional builds.





i will be using the lower part of the manifold and making some sort of trumpet inside of it for each runner before i bolt the plenum over that.

Still not sure of how to do that yet but i'll think of something or make a new one.

To be honest ive been realy struggling to find any infomation on building a plenum for a boosted M42. Or plenum building in general. if you have any ideas or suggestion then please post up

What are you running any pics??

-Cheers Nuvolarossa

- looking to be running around 15-18psi

Ive got another bottom end thats currenly being built up lower comp 8.8CR IIRC with forged rods pistons and a slight over bore although i'am trying to keep things strong and keep the meat on them rather than bore everything out to the limit and make weak spots.

[rob_e30]

I'm running a 1.95L turbo M42 in BMW Club Racing.  More info can be found here:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2980038

I'm using A. Graham Bell's "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" book for most of the math on the plenum design.  I highly recommend it.

It looks like the stock runners are a good diameter for the valve size and application.  I want to shorten them up to improve the high end and plan to use the stock lower half too.  It looks like your TB is a good diameter, but I think 3L is a good size for the plenum. The recommendation in the book is to have the plenum walls no close than 1.5 times the runner diameter.  I am planning to have the far cylinder (#4) at 1.5 times and taper out to 2X at the throttle body.  Something slightly conical in shape would be ideal, but I don't see that as practical.

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Thanks for the info rob (nice page you got there), ive got the corkey bell book "supercharged" and another one by him but i can't remember one buy graham, think i will have to buy it and see.


My main thought is that just with abit of common sense you can make an manifold that flows better than using the stock one purly because of the change of directon and then splitting of the boost to each cylinder. Think another important factor is not to come in to soon at a tight angle or you can "blow past" a cylinder and that one runs rich.

Could you PM me what PSI and what BHP your getting please i would be intrested to see what youve got at what boost as there seams to be alot of difference whith what people run and the power they get.

i was hoping 15-18psi would make around 300bhp according to my calculations.

A freinds got a MR2 turbo runninf 13psi and he's getting 275bhp with out a remap.

Cheers Matt

[roundel318]

Fun project

[ludiagsm]

very nice job , i did't uderstand what happen with alternator?

 wish you luck with your projekt:)

[Appletree IS supercharged]

Hi forgot to say it was swopped to the otherside and runs now were the aircon pump would normaly go. still uses the same belt, and bracket just with a plate to lower it and make it run inline

[dude8383]

very nice build man! post some pics of the way its set up now.