Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp

Author Topic: Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp  (Read 156598 times)

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2009, 03:05:04 PM »
Quote from: Frankie;74614
Nice work and next the lame ass question: any timetable, do we see your racer during this summer on track?


Actually very good question which I have been thinking about myself too :)

Car is now driveable but it needs to pass yearly checkup which can be problematic without interior and with shrick copy cams (I know now they will not pass emission tests without changing cam timing). Maybe I will just get temporary plates so I can drive the car to track and back, lets see.

In a week or two I will start working with the car everyday because I'm now in vacation and hope to have ITB's and Mega installed before vacation ends.

I will also finally start to work with new engine but it is doubtful if it runs this season.

mkodama

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2009, 01:57:04 AM »
any updates? :)

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2009, 03:41:06 PM »
Project still alive and kicking!

This will be the clutch, hope it handles all 220 Nm of torque!







Spare bottom end stripped and readied for boring 84 mm -> 86 mm



This is secondary chain tensioner rail, it has seen better days...



And this is what happened when it let go, intake valves have taken a bite out of block:



Front splitter has now OEM look supports (added thrid one to middle nad painted them semigloss black):



And removed annoying aftermarket remote controlled central locking/alarm:



Hope to have more photos of progress in weekend! :)

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2009, 04:23:20 AM »
I guess it is time for a small update :)

* New billet steel flywheel is almost ready and I hope to post photos soon! Complete new setup (flywheel, disc, pressure plate, gear ring) together weights less than stock  single mass M40/M42 flywheel alone (so its around 8-9 kg). With dual mass the difference is even bigger. here is photo of the sintered three puck disc:



* Bought E36 M3 3.2 Sedan suspension and front brakes to be installed to car (not installed yet)

* Built some instrumentation to monitor health of engine (not installed yet)



Progress is slow because of total lack of facilities :(

fiftytakedowns

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2010, 03:30:30 PM »
ohh man thats too bad, but it looks mega awesome

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2010, 12:51:05 PM »
Something has happened with the build! :eek:

Billet flywheel is ready. Weight 4,6 kg (10,1 lbs)



Flywheel + pressure plate 6,5 kg (14,3 lbs)



Also bought aftermarket connecting rods, they should arrive next week :)

Chalino

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2010, 01:10:08 PM »
Pics no workee
1991 318is
2001 IS300

"Now, me and the mad scientist got to rip apart the block... and replace the piston rings you fried."

nuvolarossa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2010, 08:03:49 AM »
pics work cause I'm drooling over the keyboard. I'm addicted to this project :)

Deyan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ps-cars.web44.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2010, 11:26:46 PM »
Boyracer, where did you buy this Clutch + Flywheel ?

I saw that you will use dbilas springs ... are there any other options for aftermarket stiffer springs?

And I was thinking something else ... what would be the difference between modified intake with M50B25 trottle body VS ITB from M3 E36?

Nice Project!

I just found some very interesting information about 35mm valves! As we know the valves from M62 Engine are little bit shorter than the stock M42 valves. Well I found this:

M3 S54 Valves 35mm X 6mm X 117.50mm   (51 gram)
M50/52 Valves 33mm X 6mm X 106.10mm (those are the same as M42 Valves)

So it will be much easier to cut the M3 Valves than Machinework the Head for M62 Valves.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 01:48:10 AM by Deyan »
Серега - Черный Бумер
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2010, 08:34:13 AM »
Quote from: Deyan;84927
Boyracer, where did you buy this Clutch + Flywheel ?


Clutch is from US ebay, it was originally used in some NASCAR car. Paid 140€ for it and sold the three discs that came with it for 100€ so it cost me about 40€ in the end :)

Three puck sintered disc I have now cost about 140€ and it was bought here in finland. Custom billet flywheel is also finnish origin and it cost me 200€.

Total cost for clutch & flywheel is about 380€, not bad for 50% drop in weight and significant increase in torque capacity! :eek:

I still will need to get hydraulic throwout bearing because stock system might not last very long with super stiff NASCAR pressure plate...

Quote from: Deyan;84927
I saw that you will use dbilas springs ... are there any other options for aftermarket stiffer springs?


You might want to check out Cat Cams and Shrick. I cannot remember anymore what they had to offer to M42.

Quote from: Deyan;84927
And I was thinking something else ... what would be the difference between modified intake with M50B25 trottle body VS ITB from M3 E36?


Do you mean stock M42 (E30 or E36? They are totally different) intake modified to accept M50B25 throttle body? Or completely new intake with M50B20 TB?

You can get very nice intake without ITB's, here is an good example:



BMW Motorsport P54 used in WTCC with E46. 2,0 liters, no ITB's but around 300 hp.

Quote from: Deyan;84927
Nice Project!

I just found some very interesting information about 35mm valves! As we know the valves from M62 Engine are little bit shorter than the stock M42 valves. Well I found this:

M3 S54 Valves 35mm X 6mm X 117.50mm   (51 gram)
M50/52 Valves 33mm X 6mm X 106.10mm (those are the same as M42 Valves)

So it will be much easier to cut the M3 Valves than Machinework the Head for M62 Valves.


Thanks!

I have decided not to go for much larger valves for cost reasons.

You can get max 34 mm valves to fit in original valve seats and still have enough valve seat thickness to be reliable. 35 mm and anything larger requires changing of valve seats which will be huge cost!

Also, on 2 liter 16 valve NA engine (Opel C20EX) putting out 280 hp the difference between 34 mm valves and 35 mm valves is only 10 hp. This information is directly from Guy Croft who has worked with Hart F1 engines at the time. Now he works with many 16 valve engines and I consider him being one of the most trustworthy sources of information available.

I think that some other things will start restricting airflow to cylinder before valves get too small.

So unless you are building engine for a racing series where every singe hp count and have enough budget, 34 mm is quite enough :)

When I have money I think I will just order set of 34/31,5 mm Supertechs and be happy with them :o

Deyan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ps-cars.web44.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2010, 10:33:25 AM »
Oh .. thanks for the Information!
 
   What I ment is an comparison:
--- ITB M3 E36 Modified to fit on M42B20 ---
VS
--- M50B25 TB with Custom made Intake on M42B20 ---

because of the costs, if there is not so much difference ... the solution with the M50B25 TB is very good.


Additional:
About the P54 Motorsport Engine, I've read that FIA have restrictions about the TB size: 64mm and that is why, thy use Single TB. But the Engine is very fine tuned and without ITBs got unbelievable results.
Another interesting Fact ist that P54 use 232mm long runners, which is the same as the aftermarket Honda S2000 Manifolds, which gives the best torque around 6000 rpm. Honda S2000 got indeed single TB, but
as a performance modification there are lots of aftermarket ITBs.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 04:07:09 AM by Deyan »
Серега - Черный Бумер
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2010, 03:57:45 AM »
Recent arrivals!







8500 RPM here we come! :cool:

Actually they should hold out very well for even higher when mated with lighweight forged pistons that I have, it is just question of fatigue life and how well the cylinder head will flow. No reason to run stratospheric revs if power is already dropping...

deekay

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 222
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2010, 01:45:14 AM »
glad to see updates on this again. when it's done, DYNO IT.
5-lug'd big-braked torsen'd hardtop'd ITB'd m42 vert
"the e30 colin chapman would have built" ;)

romkasponka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2010, 09:12:05 AM »
Quote from: Boyracer;85221

8500 RPM here we come! :cool:

Actually they should hold out very well for even higher when mated with lighweight forged pistons that I have, it is just question of fatigue life and how well the cylinder head will flow. No reason to run stratospheric revs if power is already dropping...


Who is manufacturer??
E30 318is M42
E36 318is M44

Boyracer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jannousianen.net
Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2010, 11:59:13 AM »
Quote from: romkasponka;85496
Who is manufacturer??


They are from here: http://www.motornord.se

But I'm sure they do not make them by themself, I think they are basically same as Eagles etc.