Author Topic: Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp (Read 156796 times)

Boyracer · « **Reply #45 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:13:59 PM »

By the way, does anybody know if OEM oil filter housing interfere with S50B30 ITB's? :confused:

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #46 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:47:51 PM »

great to know about MS2 v.3;) I'm really thinking about the same exact version for next months and it would be nice to have some base maps:D

I'll post some pictures here about some cars with M3 throttles to let you see the clearance with filter/generator, I need only to find them in my backup hard-disk:rolleyes:

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #47 on:** January 12, 2009, 03:35:31 AM »

Here they are:

stock trumpets will be way too pointed down.

roundel318 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:25:10 AM »

nice!

Boyracer · « **Reply #49 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:17:13 AM »

Awesome! Awesome to the MAX!!!11!! :cool:

From those photos it is clear that stock oir filter clears ITB TPS.

It is also clear that unmodified stock intake trumpets will not easily clear the thingamagic that charges the battery. Notice the angle of intake trumpets compared to cylinder head top.

S50B30:

M42B18:

This is how S50B30 intake trumpet looks liek (ignore the shorter one, it is for GT and EVO):

I think I could cut the trumpet on the straight part right before it joins ITB and then reattach it to different angle

swiss318is · « **Reply #50 on:** January 12, 2009, 12:13:00 PM »

how do they fit a s14 throttle body to a m42 head....??

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #51 on:** January 12, 2009, 12:56:04 PM »

Quote from: swiss318is;64534

how do they fit a s14 throttle body to a m42 head....??

:confused: the one I posted were from a M3 E36... if you want to see how can S14 ITB be fitted I have pics of those too

but IMHO the S14s don't worth the hassle for their larger cylinder spacing...

swiss318is · « **Reply #52 on:** January 12, 2009, 02:21:45 PM »

aha.. in this case.. the same question.. how fitting the m3e36 TB's to the m42 head? i know that they have the same shape of inlet.. but what about the holes for the bolts?? and YES post this pic of fitting the s14 TB's.. i have somewhere a pair...

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #53 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:33:22 PM »

Quote from: swiss318is;64550

aha.. in this case.. the same question.. how fitting the m3e36 TB's to the m42 head? i know that they have the same shape of inlet.. but what about the holes for the bolts?? and YES post this pic of fitting the s14 TB's.. i have somewhere a pair...

M3 e36 itb you can enlarge one or two holes(ovalize) and these will bolt, then for the other bolts you need a bit of more diy

the s14 is all another thing, you need to build a flange that convoys the larger flow (100mm S14 cylinder spacing) to our head spacing. If it's enought thick you can bolt the flange to the M42 head and then the itbs to the flange (as the bolt holes are way off). Otherwise you can just weld the flange to the S14 ITB manifold, as pics(these were fitted in a E36, so you can understand the modded airbox to clear the brake reservoir):

Boyracer · « **Reply #54 on:** January 16, 2009, 06:06:38 AM »

I temporarily attached ITB's to my spare cylinder head so I could see what modifications are needed to make idle/vacuum and fuel rails.

S50B30 Idle/vacuum rail needs to be cut at 4 places and welded together in 2, also one pipe needs to be cut out and relocated. Material is 1-1,5 mm steel so welding with MIG/TIG is possible. After modification this rail connects directly to original mounting points on ITB's, neat.

M42B18 fuel rail fuel lines interfere with ITB's and they should be cut out and welded to different angles and even then there is need to manufacture attachments between rail and ITB mounting points. Not good.

S50B30 fuel rail needs to be cut at 2 places and welded on 1 to make it perfect fit. After that it should neatly connect to original mountings points on ITB's. Only question is, how sensible is it cut and weld up a thingie that has 3 bar fuel inside it

Seems liek I got buyer for my spare set of Shrick copy cams and my custom chip made for them so Megasquirt would be funded by that alone. Also, if I sell that custom chip, I really need to get Mega up and running, otherwise car is pretty useless

Boyracer · « **Reply #55 on:** February 28, 2009, 03:32:07 AM »

Some progress!

Megasquirt II PCB 3.0 kit + Innovate LC1 wideband lambda arrived yesterday. I need to modify the kit a bit to support COP ignition and second trigger to support VR type sensor.

Fuel and vacuum rails have been cut up and wait welding. Intake trumpets have been shortened to suit higher rpm range of my engine compared to M3.

Next I need to cut up the ITB throttle axle to correct lenght.

I also ordered set of Dbilas valve springs which are 15% stiffer than OEM and also allow higher valve lift. With solid lifter conversion over 8000 RPM is possible safely, if only bottom end can take it. Solid lifters also require different camshaft which I need to get grinded.

One problem identified...

When base circle of camshaft is decresed to increase lift, lifters rise higher in camshaft carrier bores and they can contact top of the bores. I think only way to avoid this is to modify the cam carriers, not easy

dsm2002 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 28, 2009, 08:07:24 AM »

Quote from: Boyracer;67367

One problem identified...

When base circle of camshaft is decresed to increase lift, lifters rise higher in camshaft carrier bores and they can contact top of the bores. I think only way to avoid this is to modify the cam carriers, not easy

Do you have the cam yet? Are you going for a new billet cam or reground? I was talking to somebody about this recently and he was suggesting either using a new cam with the original base circle (i.e from Catcams or similar) or weld and grind the stock cam to maintain base circle. I suspect based on your observations with the cam carriers that this is what he was alluding to.

Boyracer · « **Reply #57 on:** February 28, 2009, 12:53:48 PM »

Quote from: dsm2002;67368

Do you have the cam yet? Are you going for a new billet cam or reground? I was talking to somebody about this recently and he was suggesting either using a new cam with the original base circle (i.e from Catcams or similar) or weld and grind the stock cam to maintain base circle. I suspect based on your observations with the cam carriers that this is what he was alluding to.

No, I have no cam yet but I planned to have a cam ground from stock cam (regrinds are 220� vs dbilas 770�).

I have to measure how much there is allowance for grinding stock cam base circle before lifters contact the carriers. I suspect it is about 1.5 - 2 mm which gives max lift 11 - 11.5 mm from stock cam regrind.

High lift aftermarket cams with same base circle as stock cams might run to different problem:

With very high lift cams there is no clearance between cam lobes and cam carrier walls, with stock cam the clearance is about 2 mm.

romkasponka · « **Reply #58 on:** February 28, 2009, 02:21:53 PM »

check http://www.catcams.com for lift data without mashining cariers.

Boyracer · « **Reply #59 on:** February 28, 2009, 08:08:23 PM »

Quote from: romkasponka;67380

check http://www.catcams.com for lift data without mashining cariers.

In/ex lift 12,5/12,0 mm no machining required
In/ex lift 13,0/12,5 mm machining required

What it does not say is if the base circle is identical to stock camshaft or is the higher lift achieved partly by reducing base circle and increasing cam lobe.

Anyway, I'm realy not prepared to pay almost 800€ for new camshafts if I can get regrinds for 220€... I just have to find out what is the lift/duration I can achieve easily with regrinds.