Author Topic: Buildup: My quest for NA 280 hp (Read 156643 times)

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #30 on:** September 04, 2008, 09:32:49 AM »

Quote from: Boyracer;56008

forged H profile M42 con rods on german ebay now. But if I buy them I cannot use the M47 crank if I happen to find such elusive treasure...

Great pics of pistons... there is a M47N crank at 170km from my home:rolleyes:
too far for now that I don't need it:D
if it was from a M47 it would be here today, only to see it

(asked him today price and wear status)

e30guydownunder · « **Reply #31 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:15:42 AM »

ewwww, sharp edges galore....will be watching this one closely I like learning

ose30 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:29:34 AM »

Quote

forged H profile M42 con rods on german ebay now. But if I buy them I cannot use the M47 crank if I happen to find such elusive treasure...

Just contact Ojennus, he'll fabricate you suitable rods. Price will be around 850-900€/set.
I have bought from him several sets for Porsche engines.

Here's W�ssner/PO rod setup for Porsche

Boyracer · « **Reply #33 on:** September 08, 2008, 03:12:32 AM »

Ok, checked the valves I got last week.

M62 is still the closest match for M42 6 mm stem valve.

N62 valve is even shorter than M62 and there is little gain over M62 valve in any area. It has nicely thinned valve stem however.

5 mm stem S85 and S65 valves seem identical in appearance and measurements. They are somewhat longer than M42 valves and use only one groove collets. I haven't measured their mass but they are quite light indeed. They also have extra cut on valve backside to help flow.

M42B18 (baseline):

33,05 mm
5,95 mm
106,32 mm

M64B44

34,93 mm (+1,88 mm)
5,96 mm
104,12 mm (-2,20 mm)

N62B??

34,88 mm (+1,83 mm)
5,97 / 5,03 mm
100,04 mm (-6,28 mm)

S65/S85

35,47 mm (+2,54 mm)
4,96 mm
111,64 mm (+5,32 mm)

L to R: N62, M62, M42, 2 x S65/S85, S50B30

Clearly S65/S85 valves are superior parts, as they should be. Problems with them I can think of are:

1. Can solid lifters work with 5 mm longer valve stems then original valves?
2. Where can I find valve guides that fit M42 head and have 5 mm stem valves?
3. To get full benefit from lighter weight of intake valves, exhaust valves must be changed too = extra expense
4. New valve spring plates and collets must be purchased = extra expense

I shall study this further.

Boyracer · « **Reply #34 on:** September 08, 2008, 03:27:57 AM »

Checked ETK and it seems that S65 collets, springs and spring plates are about 7€ extra / valve, cheap! Exhaust side valves are about double the price of intake valves (15€ / 30€) which is not too bad.

That stuff is also light, weight saving combined with M42 solid lifter would allow revving to around 8800 RPM (as my stock M42 revs regularly to 7200 rpm) IF S65 valve springs are of similar stiffness as M42 stock, which I doubt however as S65 stuff is lighter and require less stiff spring.

I think I will order S65 valve spring for rate and lenght measurements plus collet and spring plate too. Then there is still the problem of valve guide...

halcron · « **Reply #35 on:** September 08, 2008, 09:19:59 AM »

Quote from: Boyracer;56281

Ok, checked the valves I got last week.

M62 is still the closest match for M42 6 mm stem valve.

N62 valve is even shorter than M62 and there is little gain over M62 valve in any area. It has nicely thinned valve stem however.

5 mm stem S85 and S65 valves seem identical in appearance and measurements. They are somewhat longer than M42 valves and use only one groove collets. I haven't measured their mass but they are quite light indeed. They also have extra cut on valve backside to help flow.

M42B18 (baseline):

33,05 mm
5,95 mm
106,32 mm

M64B44

34,93 mm (+1,88 mm)
5,96 mm
104,12 mm (-2,20 mm)

N62B??

34,88 mm (+1,83 mm)
5,97 / 5,03 mm
100,04 mm (-6,28 mm)

S65/S85

35,47 mm (+2,54 mm)
4,96 mm
111,64 mm (+5,32 mm)

L to R: N62, M62, M42, 2 x S65/S85, S50B30

Clearly S65/S85 valves are superior parts, as they should be. Problems with them I can think of are:

1. Can solid lifters work with 5 mm longer valve stems then original valves?
2. Where can I find valve guides that fit M42 head and have 5 mm stem valves?
3. To get full benefit from lighter weight of intake valves, exhaust valves must be changed too = extra expense
4. New valve spring plates and collets must be purchased = extra expense

I shall study this further.

Nice work you have with the valves!

Regarding the longer valve stems, how about cutting them shorter and then cut grove collars?

Boyracer · « **Reply #36 on:** September 08, 2008, 09:40:53 AM »

Quote from: halcron;56299

Regarding the longer valve stems, how about cutting them shorter and then cut grove collars?

That could work with S65/S85 valves, they are just enough long for it. But I really have to find suitable solid lifters, they partly determine ideal valve stem length too.

ose30 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 08, 2008, 10:27:06 AM »

Why you hassle with expensive BMW valves.... We use Chevy big block valves (sodium filled) with our Porsche projects. Lots of different sizes available and machine shops can modify them if necessary to fit. Also what comes to valve guide, just use K-liners, they can be made to accept almost all valves. We have used K-liners many years with many different engines. With Chevy valves & K-liners you can save a lot of €€€ compared to BMW valves.

Boyracer · « **Reply #38 on:** September 09, 2008, 03:24:27 AM »

Expensive? Heck, they are 1/3rd of the price of custom made Ferrea steel valves! :p

Do big block chevy's use 35 mm diameter valves with 6/5 mm stems? :rolleyes:

Also, liners do not help at all improving flow unlike bulleted race guides...

crazzy_hippo · « **Reply #39 on:** November 07, 2008, 01:48:23 AM »

Hi! Any updates regarding the valves? I am very interested in porting up my head and using larger valves.

ose30 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 07, 2008, 08:23:28 AM »

Are you going to build a turbo engine? If so, do not waste your money for bigger valves, concenrate to suitable pistons and rods for turbo use. On turbo engines valve size does not play that importnat role (depending the HP figures you are looking for). Just buy Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost", there is a lot good information you should consider if building a turbo engine.

crazzy_hippo · « **Reply #41 on:** November 07, 2008, 11:03:55 PM »

Quote from: ose30;60145

Are you going to build a turbo engine? If so, do not waste your money for bigger valves, concenrate to suitable pistons and rods for turbo use. On turbo engines valve size does not play that importnat role (depending the HP figures you are looking for). Just buy Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost", there is a lot good information you should consider if building a turbo engine.

Oh IC. Thanks for your info. Yes, I am building a supercharged engine and is targeting slightly over 300HP (400HP is every better). Do you think the stock valves will be able provide adequate air flow?

Boyracer · « **Reply #42 on:** November 18, 2008, 12:45:17 PM »

Bad news everyone!

This project is going to sloooooooooooooooow down significantly due few sudden extra expenses:

1. M3 needs new differential and rear brakes = 3500�
2. My home will be subject to complete electrics, water, sewage and air overhaul = 30 000�

Sooo, in light of that, some sacrifices must be made regarding the engine build

I think I can get the following done:

1. ITB's
2. Megasquirt
3. high comp pistons + increased bore

Uber free flowing super revvy cylinderhead unfortunately must wait indefinitely as it is the most expensive single part

deekay · « **Reply #43 on:** November 29, 2008, 03:35:50 AM »

Quote from: Boyracer;61153

I think I can get the following done:

1. ITB's
2. Megasquirt
3. high comp pistons + increased bore

Uber free flowing super revvy cylinderhead unfortunately must wait indefinitely as it is the most expensive single part

thankfully, the head will make that much more difference after already having 1, 2, and 3 above... and you'll still see some benefit from them without headwork. stay positive, you'll get there.

Boyracer · « **Reply #44 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:11:15 PM »

Okay, finally something to report...

I'm about to order Megasquirt II PCB 3.0 kit + Innovate WB lambda to act as engine management system. I have also bought Motronic 1.7 ECU from which I can get connector that allows me to connect MS to OEM cable tree without major modifications. With a bit of luck (and modifications) I might be able to fit MS inside the motronic box too, neat!

ITB adapter needs only bit of port matching and it is usable. It also seems that I am able to get S50B30 intake trumpets from friend in decent price! They might need bit of modification (cut, shorten to match power band, reattach so that the trumpet mouths point more towards front, not directly down) to make them fit to engine bay with M42 since ITB throat angle is more horizontal compared to S50.

Air filter housing could come from E36 325 which should flow well enough and be a direct replacement to stock filter housing.

Then there is matter of building airbox which will most propably be carbon or glass fiber.