Author Topic: M42 vs S14? (Read 20112 times)

stereomotional · « **Reply #15 on:** June 07, 2008, 11:42:50 AM »

my opinion, just build the m42, and go FI. im planning on spending about $4,000 -$4,500 on mine total (pistions/rods/turbo/exhaust mani/cams...

batsbats · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2008, 11:52:38 AM »

The 24v is well documented swap.

From what I can gather off r3v, bf.c, and s14, the s14 is very high strung and requires heavy bills for a rebuild and overall maintenance.

Royalratch · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2008, 02:45:32 AM »

S14's should be left in M3's.

Show some respect!

futron.sim · « **Reply #18 on:** June 08, 2008, 08:51:39 AM »

Quote from: no1_jazz;50740

Guys so what shall I do I�m looking to achieve a really good handling car which is quick in every gear and that also has a reasonably high top end i.e. 140 - 150mph? I understand a lot of money is going to be involved to achieve this target of mine but I just don�t know which way to go the M42 way or the S14.

I guess it would be easy to start of with what I have already which is the M42 but then there is only so much I can get out of it��..and if I decide to go the S14 way ��. Well its hard to get hold of a good one these days and also will cost a lot.

How good is the S52 give me more information I mean why the S52 out of all other BMW engines? I believe it�s a 6-pot?

Appreciate all the help guys
Jazz

Yes, the S52 is a 6 potter. However, do take note that US and europe have different versions. If possible, look for a Euro S50B32. It has ITBs and double VANOS. It also puts out more power compared to the S52.

The only downside to this is that its going to cost quite a lot to ship an engine from Europe to US/Canada.

futron.sim · « **Reply #19 on:** June 08, 2008, 08:54:58 AM »

IMHO, its still best to stick with the M42 and go FI. Rebuild the engine with forged parts and lower its compression. Then throw in a GT28-GT30 ball bearing turbo, piggy back, injectors and walbro pump.

You will be very happy with the power. You will have a car thats faster than a NA S14 or even S52 engine.

no1_jazz · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2008, 03:22:45 PM »

Quote from: futron.sim;50793

IMHO, its still best to stick with the M42 and go FI. Rebuild the engine with forged parts and lower its compression. Then throw in a GT28-GT30 ball bearing turbo, piggy back, injectors and walbro pump.

You will be very happy with the power. You will have a car thats faster than a NA S14 or even S52 engine.

is there any pics of an m42 with this whole mods done to it and is there any step byt step modification pictures and any final preformance stats?

and a total price list by the way im from the UK

cheers J
azz

RouteZeroDesign · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2008, 11:10:37 AM »

On a circuit, a well setup turbo m42 will destroy an NA 6 pot.
If your looking for good bang for your buck, then turbo charge your m42 with a mid sized turbo.
For track use, a major priority is avoiding lag, so to do this
Use as small a turbocharger as you think you may need
Yes a T78 can boost up to ridiculus pressures, but you will never need them.
A good turbo is the gt25 35r.
Make your turbo plumbing as short as possible
The shorter the distance between the compressor and the port, the less air there is to stall in the pipes during on/off throttle situations.
Use an air to water intercooler
This type of intercooler is in a barrel full of water which is connected to a radiator and fan, this further decreases pressurized pipe length and hence lag.
It may not look as cool as an intercooler peeping out of your front bumper, but people wont be able to see it when they're behind you

make your pressure pipes as skinny as possible
This will reduce lag by reducing the amount of air in the pipes and also pressure drop due to a smaller surface area of air touching the side walls (laminar flow)
Large diameter pipes are only needed on huge turbos, where volume becomes more important than velocity.
Fit a recirculating dump valve
Its basic physics. If your turbo has compressed the air for you, it is a complete waste venting it to the atmosphere, so save your turbo the effort by plumbing your dump valve back to your intake (pre turbo)

Hope that helps a little

There is no point comparing the m42/4 and the s14 because they are very different engines.
The s14 is a homologation special with high compression, itbs and a lumpy camshaft.
Whereas the m42 is a much milder 4 cylinder with reasonably high compression, very economically minded cams and an intake manifold designed for daily driving.
I believe that the m42/4 is extremely strangled from the factory so as not to compete against the higher cost 6 pot engined cars, but with enough work (as proven by the s42) it can be as good, if not better than the s14.

wanganstyle · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2008, 07:24:56 PM »

Quote from: futron.sim;50733

S52 may be more powerful but its definitely not as prestigious compared to the S14.

Afterall, the E30 M3 is one of the most successful racer BMW has ever build. Thus the S14 is pretty much a racing engine. Imagine revving at 8K RPM down the streets....Its going to be awesome.

Perhaps that is why the S14 still csot so much today despite being such an old engine. Seriously, I would love to have one in my car. Sadly, I can't afford it....

you can repeat this kinda bench racer data over and over again, but have you ever driven them side to side? or owned them?

I speak from an owners perspective.

S14 is expensive bc its OLD and rare.
in reliability, S52>S14
in power and performance of the powerplant S52>S14
if you had a E30 M3 and wanted to do somethign crazy to it, S52 swap would be a good value option.

Not everyone has the money for a 2.5L s14 evo2 build up, but the same performance can be stuffed in a 318is inexpensively with a newer M3 motor. how can that be bad?

If you really wanted a S14, you'd buy the car with it.

futron.sim · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2008, 08:26:38 PM »

Quote from: wanganstyle;51249

you can repeat this kinda bench racer data over and over again, but have you ever driven them side to side? or owned them?

I speak from an owners perspective.

S14 is expensive bc its OLD and rare.
in reliability, S52>S14
in power and performance of the powerplant S52>S14
if you had a E30 M3 and wanted to do somethign crazy to it, S52 swap would be a good value option.

Not everyone has the money for a 2.5L s14 evo2 build up, but the same performance can be stuffed in a 318is inexpensively with a newer M3 motor. how can that be bad?

If you really wanted a S14, you'd buy the car with it.

I have never driven the S14 nor S52. But I did have experience with M50 motors. I do agree with you that S52 is a good swap and thats what I wanted to do originally with my car. Remove the M42 and throw in a S50/52. If not, even a M50B25 is a good choice. Now, I decide that going FI with a M42 is a better choice.

As I have mentioned earilier, my shoice of S14 over the S52 is a matter of prestige rather than technical.

wanganstyle · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2008, 11:22:32 PM »

for sure. prestige of a EVO 2.5 S14 is second to none for production, if your bankroll is deep there are plenty of buildups akin to a toyota 4ag 1600cc 16v, those will pull ~ 280 ps ~ 13,000+ rpm in open wheel cars with qualifying race maps

batsbats · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2008, 10:13:24 AM »

Quote from: wanganstyle;51260

for sure. prestige of a EVO 2.5 S14 is second to none for production, if your bankroll is deep there are plenty of buildups akin to a toyota 4ag 1600cc 16v, those will pull ~ 280 ps ~ 13,000+ rpm in open wheel cars with qualifying race maps

Um, can you provide some valid proof regarding a race built up 4ag motor capable of that, that would be as reliable and cost effective as an s14 motor?

I'm just laughing at that statement in this thread about m42 v s14.

wanganstyle · « **Reply #26 on:** June 15, 2008, 11:43:40 AM »

IF YOU READ, you would understand what i am saying.

4ag 1600cc toyota engines are used in FORMULA ATLANTIC open wheel cars. only for real racing use are they tuned to that kind of level, and of course - if you have to ask how much $$,$$$ - then you cannot afford one

i definately cannot afford a 280hp 1600cc 4A, but they are readily avail for those with deep deep pockets, even for street use.

a nice built street EVO 2.5 S14 should run close to 10K brand new. a 280hp 13,000 rpm 4AG race motor will be pretty similar in price.

batsbats · « **Reply #27 on:** June 15, 2008, 02:57:40 PM »

Quote from: wanganstyle;51349

IF YOU READ, you would understand what i am saying.

4ag 1600cc toyota engines are used in FORMULA ATLANTIC open wheel cars. only for real racing use are they tuned to that kind of level, and of course - if you have to ask how much $$,$$$ - then you cannot afford one

i definately cannot afford a 280hp 1600cc 4A, but they are readily avail for those with deep deep pockets, even for street use.

a nice built street EVO 2.5 S14 should run close to 10K brand new. a 280hp 13,000 rpm 4AG race motor will be pretty similar in price.

The only street used Formula Atlantic car that I'm aware of is, Akira Lida's and he has his revlimited to 9k-10k. A race motor like that, is no where from streetable. Idling at like 3k, making zero torque down low for driving around, unless at a track. My point was, why are you suggesting a race motor for a street car? He's already pointed to wanting an S14 for its prestige, and would be probably against throwing a non-bmw motor in the car.

It would be very cool, but if I had those motors in my 318is, its mileage would only be to&from the trailer and on the track. What's the life of the Form Atlantic before a rebuild? 5-10k miles?

wanganstyle · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2008, 10:52:04 AM »

its not sugested for street use or bmw use at all.

a evo 2.5 s14 is prepped for na power similar to a built 4a (which is a comparison only)

read often?

swiss318is · « **Reply #29 on:** June 16, 2008, 01:32:46 PM »

...comparing apples with bananas?