Author Topic: M42 vs S14? (Read 20086 times)

mach schnell · « **Reply #30 on:** June 16, 2008, 10:23:44 PM »

An S14 swap would be difficult on our cars, wouldn't it?

Or is it a straight swap?

Seems like it would be difficult because the M3's have that "early E30" design, don't they? Cap + rotor instead of coils, etc.

Oversteer · « **Reply #31 on:** September 10, 2008, 07:06:07 PM »

If it's top speed performance you're after, sell the E30 and buy a E36! You've got then pleanty of options to make 150mph easily.

The E30 appeal is much more than straight line performance and top speed marks!

E36_Pete · « **Reply #32 on:** September 12, 2008, 04:55:14 AM »

Quote from: Oversteer;56481

The E30 appeal is much more than straight line performance and top speed marks!

any bmw appeal is about more than striaght line performance, if you want to go fast in a straight line go buy a riced out honda.....

GrindCulture · « **Reply #33 on:** September 14, 2008, 07:13:28 AM »

If you want top speed get a 24v 6 pot dropped in and change your final drive ratio. But lets face it, any idiot can loose their licence driving at stupid speeds in a straight line...

Boyracer · « **Reply #34 on:** September 15, 2008, 02:54:16 AM »

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #35 on:** September 15, 2008, 06:12:32 AM »

exacly boyracer.
99% of people that buy bmw today buy them only for image, not for performance, or RWD or engine technology. Many of them don't know when change gears... someone here drive in third at 5800revs cruising...
someone buy them and don't do maintenance, and then they claim that bmw are poor.
Personally I didn't buy it for image. I liked it a lot and even if I can change it for newer cars, there isn't on the market what I need, at the right price.
A lot of people here claims to go fast on the road... but if you see who they are, some of the destroied a lot of cars in turns because they don't know the limits in turns, and go right over instead of going progressive.
It's easy to floor the pedal in straight, but that's not an ability. Maybe it's true that those that drive only in highways can't do other... but here no highways and all turns

I like a lot more lateral G than straight MPH... but this is me.

back on topic:
you can swap a 6cyl very easily, can find them used for really low money usually when the seller don't offer shipping.
You will have the great engine sound, the low-mid torque, all OEM pieces for maintenance (no $$$ custom parts in the engine) and a solid base with a lot of options if you'll want to turbo or s/c it next.

Every time I heard a M3 E30 with an airbox, I fight myself because I'm going turbo and can't have that sound. but if I would go N/A there will be more money to put in there and it will be a little problematic to pass MOT here (every 2 years) and DD it. With a low boost turbo if I don't pass MOT I can simply unbolt it, change ECU map, replace one or two things and I can go to the MOT. And then, here law don't permit to swap a bigger engine. Otherwise I would have a S50B30 with ITBs

drive safe

DaveM-sport · « **Reply #36 on:** September 16, 2010, 04:17:28 AM »

An S50 US or S52 is a pretty pointless engine swap in my opinion with only 240bhp or so.
For the hassle and cost if getting one if them, you could probably have an M42 with not much much less power.

Of course a proper S50 or even M52 is a much better proposition

Comparing an M42 to an S14 is a waste of time to however as the S14 will always be better.

Yes you could have an M42 with 300bhp NA or maybe 500-600 with a turbo but a built S14 could see you 400 and upto 800.

If you have an M42, its more oat effective to build that to 180-220bhp alright though since an S14 can coat upto 3K just to buy alone without any work.

Warsteiner · « **Reply #37 on:** September 16, 2010, 08:38:24 AM »

Just some more points to add. You can do the S50 etc swap and that would be very expensive. Remember that you have another 2 cyl's to contend with so that will put you inline with building a semi-tame S14. On the S50 US version, if you swap HFM, inj's and chip you're already at 275HP. Add cams and change the chip now you're pushing 295-300HP. There is no replacement for displacement. You will always have more torque in the 6cyl. This however will cost you $$$ on top of what you had already paid for the motor.

Stock 2.3L S14 is a tamed down version of the race motor with only 10.5:1 compression and 192HP US. Others had 200HP and special editions had 215HP but without cats. The Evo II version was a 11:1 compression 220HP motor with more bells and whistles like a cam and cam gear, different ITB's. The Sport Evo which is the Evo III had ONLY 10.2:1 compression and 238HP but was a 2.5L and had even more bells and whistles. Sodium filled exhaust valves, 48mm ITB's vs all the 46mm variations, bigger AFM, inj's, and the list goes on.....
The S14 is another breed ($$$) which is getting more difficult to get parts for. Some are now NLA through the dealer. I'm in the process of building my 2.5L S14 for next season. Example: You shouldn't use the stock S14 oil pump but rather the Evo III oil pump with an extra spring for better pressure.....Well there goes another $253 for a replacement pump that only had a few thousand miles on it. BUT that is what you do when build a track/race motor. It gets pricey! Oh and I have the DTM airbox on my S14 and it sounds awesome. I could probably have some made for the M42 but again we are now talking $$$. My box was about $1,500 US but IT DOES make more power than the stock plenum because they have tuned runners.
Everything you put on a motor when you build it has to work together. The whole motor has to be thought out before you even start.

You can make the NA M42 have 300+HP but at what cost right? That is a full blown race motor. Turbo is a different ball game. The S14... well I ran my 2.5L with lots of bells and whistles and had about 280HP at the crank but it also only weighs 2400 lbs so it feels super quick and from what others tell me, it is. I'm building the motor to hopefully reach over the 300HP mark which will be an achievement. What people don't realize is that when you start with a 192HP stock S14 and want to get 400HP its not that easy unless you have an open checkbook or a money tree. You can get there but it will cost you $30,000+ to achieve it. And at that level of a build you'll have to start rebuilding at 25 HOURS of track time!! That's right 25 hours not thousands of miles. The same goes for the M42 but not as bad in the $$$ department.

When I was in Thailand I met the GUY that was building the motors for Ravaglia back in the mid to late 80's and early 90's for Schnitzner!! Awesome dude...... He said 400HP no problem. That is the cream of the crop for HP but again....at what cost not only to build but to maintain:-) He just had DTM motors lying around the shop!! They let him take everything when their reign was over back then.

It all comes down to $$$ and what you want. I'm also finishing my M42 Stroker with ITB's, Megasquirt, custom cams, ported head, E30M3 exhaust etc.....as my daily driver. I wanted to see what everyone else was talking about when it came to making HP in a little M42 motor. Yeah.... there is some other trick stuff like 33mm lifters instead of the 35mm ones to lighten the valve train without going shim under bucket etc.... I'm shooting for 220HP at the crank with all the goodies. This is just going by my experience from S14 and S50 motors that I have tuned. Who knows....it might just be a little more or even a little less but in the end I know that I have a motor that I built and tuned that is an awesome little 4 bangar and will keep up with most other 6's and a lot of fun to drive!!

In the end... everyone will do what they want because they are the ones spending the $$$. Have fun with all the variations of builds and hopefully learn something from whichever direction you decide to take.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Eazy_tom · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2010, 01:45:34 AM »

Stroke your m42!
There was a build thread on it, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

Warsteiner · « **Reply #39 on:** September 17, 2010, 06:57:34 AM »

I will be writing up my build shortly, but if you want to make your eyes water then read Gizmo's. I think he was the first to do it. I added a link so everyone could see the evolution of his car.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433471.html

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=556798

Cheers,
~Ralph

Eazy_tom · « **Reply #40 on:** September 17, 2010, 03:58:15 PM »

That's the one I was looking for, thanks man!
I need to get this going soon, my M44 is a little on the slow side.

RED IS 91 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 17, 2010, 07:00:22 PM »

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1946525337.html

Romrog318is · « **Reply #42 on:** September 17, 2010, 08:33:43 PM »

fuck it just do what i did

lol

better yet do what im about to do S54

dvmotorsports · « **Reply #43 on:** October 01, 2010, 03:29:58 AM »

My M42 whores out E36M3's unless i'm granny shifting and not double clutching..... E30M3's are no problem.

Seriously though, it took some cash to get my M42 this way. It's cheaper to mod the M42, but the parts are more scarce. So you have to be smart and resourceful. But an S14 is exactly that, an S14!