fuel pump/non-start issues - been doing lots of research, still NEED HELP... please >

[Cobra Jet]

Why haven't you done the cps test I indicated above ??
That will tell you if the cps is bad.Everything you've done so far is good and does indicate to a bad cps but you have to test the cps itself to confirm that it is bad.
good luck
I do have an old cps that was working when I removed it from my car.

LOL -I WOULD have done the CPS test as in this thread, however, last night (and all day yesterday) I could not get onto this site, I kept getting a DNS error (I started a thread in the general section on here about that issue...).  I run out of daylight to work on the car, so I've also been working with limited time after getting in from work and I concentrated on the fuel pump diagnosis first over the last couple of days.

So, being without the ability to get to this thread, I did not know which contacts to probe or what my OHM reading should have been.  I did pull the plug off and checked it out, but other than that, I was seeing varying info from others on other forums of which many stated many different operating OHM variations for this sensor...  So I was completely unsure of what would be the correct operating range or not.

By chance if this is the culprit - could I buy your working sensor if it's low mileage, or would you just recommened buying new based on possible used failure rate?

Is a new O-ring really needed for installing another CPS?  I'm asking because based on the info in the manual you posted above, it states to use a new O-ring.

[Cobra Jet]

Do you get no light at all for the CEL, or does it just give you the 1444 code?  EDIT: Nevermind, I see that you are getting a 1444.

And, have you seen this thread? http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12421117

Yes, the CEL does light up upon start up or if the key is turned "on".  I also did the pedal test multiple times after trying to start it and I only get the no fault code 1444.

As for the linked thread, as a matter of fact, I had replied to that thread to assist the members in it, then was struck with this non-start issue only a few days afterwards... LOL!  

I asked in that thread today, might as well do the same here - is the fusible link they are referring to located in the same location on a 91 318ic?  The only reason I am asking is my battery is not mounted in the trunk, it's factory location is under the hood.  Therefore, I'm only guessing that my fusible link they are discussing will not be in the trunk location, but possibly up front under the hood...?  If it is located up front, where should I be able to find this fusible link?  I'm wondering if that could be an issue on my vehicle as well... and if so, why...

[RED IS 91]

LOL -I WOULD have done the CPS test as in this thread, however, last night (and all day yesterday) I could not get onto this site, I kept getting a DNS error (I started a thread in the general section on here about that issue...).  I run out of daylight to work on the car, so I've also been working with limited time after getting in from work and I concentrated on the fuel pump diagnosis first over the last couple of days.

So, being without the ability to get to this thread, I did not know which contacts to probe or what my OHM reading should have been.  I did pull the plug off and checked it out, but other than that, I was seeing varying info from others on other forums of which many stated many different operating OHM variations for this sensor...  So I was completely unsure of what would be the correct operating range or not.

By chance if this is the culprit - could I buy your working sensor if it's low mileage, or would you just recommened buying new based on possible used failure rate?

Is a new O-ring really needed for installing another CPS?  I'm asking because based on the info in the manual you posted above, it states to use a new O-ring.

My sensor probably has at least 150K on it.When I tested mine the meter said 650 ohms when the manual says 1250 so I got a new one and when I tested the new one I discovered it said 650 also so I knew that the manual was incorrect . I searched on bimmerforums and found that this was indeed true. So I replaced my good sensor with a brand new one .
As far as the o ring ,either get one at an auto store or use your old one.If you have ac in your car it makes it hard to install the sensor cause the wiring goes behind the bracket IIRC . So the bracket must come off.
First things first ................ determine if indeed the sensor is faulty.
When these cars are sorted out and maintained they are a fun reliable vehicle.
good luck

[bmwpower]

What happens when you start the car with the CPS disconnected?  CEL?

Did you ever replace the ICV?

[RED IS 91]

I looked at my car last night and I don't believe there is an O ring for the cps??

[bmwpower]

I looked at my car last night and I don't believe there is an O ring for the cps??

crank ps = no oring
cam ps = oring

crank ps hangs on an external bracket.

[Cobra Jet]

ICV is working fine, it's buzzing when the key is turned to "on" and when hot wired, it works w/o issues after cleaning it last weekend, it also tested good OHM's.  The car started and drove fine after the ICV was cleaned.  Like I said above, I drove it into work, it sat for 8+ hours, I came out to leave and it would not start, just kept cranking.  The fuel pump was not (and is not currently) getting any power when the car is trying to be started up.  The only time the pump gets power is if I hot wire it directly to a battery jump box or jump the fuel pump relay sockets 30/87.

The car is definitely not getting any spark, as when I did the spark plug test, I saw no spark at all....and that's when and after I posted my above updates.

I've not had time to do any other or further tests to the CPS, DME relay, coils or DME...  

I would *think* that if the CPS is unplugged that the DME should log a code, right?  I could try that idea out too by unplugging the CPS and seeing if the DMW will store a fault code.  I'm just puzzled as to why the DME does not have ANY stored fault codes at all.  All I keep getting is "1444", even after trying to start the car over and over and over....

I'm going to try and go at it again when I get home, depending on how much daylight I have left.  The thing is just sitting out in front of the house where the flat bed left it and I don't have the man power to push it up the driveway into the garage.



(thanks for O-ring clarification)

[bmwpower]

I'd be curious to see if it will throw a CPS fault with it unplugged.  If it doesn't, that should bring you closer to an answer.

Try removing or wiggling the line and see if it makes any difference.  Could be damaged internally but moving it around might get you different results.

Are there 2 pumps on this car?  Never looked into it.  There are 2 on my 325ic.

Sorry haven't been much help to anyone lately.  Too busy at work (eating while I type this).

[Cobra Jet]

Are there 2 pumps on this car?  Never looked into it.  There are 2 on my 325ic.

Sorry haven't been much help to anyone lately.  Too busy at work (eating while I type this).

No, according to all online info (threads, tech, manuals, etc), there is only a single in-tank EFI fuel pump.  Some of the earlier E30's (like your 325) had 2 pumps, 1 internal and 1 external.

no new updates, car still sitting.

[Scany]

Have you tested fuel pressure after the fuel filter, or even at the fuel rail? Unfortunately you don't have a schraeder valve (which would make it real easy), so it's a litte pain if you test at the fuel rail. But testing after the fuel filter would be easy.

I don't know if the fuel pressure sensor does not pick up good fuel pressure if it would stop spark to the cylinders. If it does, then your problem could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter.

My money is still on the crank ps though.

A faulty crank ps might not show up on your cel, but a BMW GT1 machine might pick it up. I might be in the future on this one since I'm far from sure, but I thought that might explain the lack of cel when the cps sensor is bad.

[Cobra Jet]

ANOTHER UPDATE (car still not running):


Here's where I am at (besides being totally frustrated and not being able to drive the car) - these are the lastest diagnostic tests I have performed last night:


1) I looked at the existing fuse #11 in the main fuse box, it was good and not blown - so just to double check, I replaced that fuse with another known good fuse of the same exact value, still no start

2) pulled fuel pump relay and tested it by applying 12v directly to tab #86 and grounded tab #85 of the actual relay - the fuel pump relay then "clicked" or powered itself "on".

3) I probed the hole for position #86 where the fuel pump relay plugs into and the readout displayed 11.85v

4) I then tried to test for continuity between tabs #30 & #87 on the fuel pump relay - when I did this, I did not see any readout displayed on my multimeter, nor did I hear any audible "beep" from it.   Should I have seen a readout on the display?  Does "no continuity" mean I would not see any readout and if there was continuity, I would have seen a readout?  Should the relay have been "powered on" as in step 3 above and then tested for continuity?

5) After the fuel pump relay testing above, I then pulled another "exact" relay (confirmed as a working relay as well) from the main fuse box and inserted it into the fuel pump relay slot - still no start with another working relay.

6) I pulled off the end connector of the CPS and tested the resistance of it.  My digital multimeter went up to 1.180 OHMS and was slowly stilll ticking up by 1 digit each time (ie: 1.180, 1.181, 1.182, etc) and I stopped the test at that point.  Now, I'm not sure if this is "good" or "bad" - only because of the various threads I have read on this site and many others that state the BMW Bentley Manual has the INCORRECT parameter for this sensor.  From what I have read, this sensor should only be reading .650 +/- 10%....  The Bentley states "1280 +/- 10%".  I don't see ANY exterior breaks in the CPS harness, no breaks at the plug end and no breaks at the sensor end at the crank.  Now, based on my reading posted here for the CPS - can someone PLEASE tell me if my reading is showing a bad or good sensor???

7) I also pulled the plug on the Camshaft Positioning Sensor and tested it as well - just to see what it was reading.  My multimeter showed .990 OHMS, it did not fluctuate at all - an instant .990 reading as soon as I put my multimeter probes on contacts 1 & 2 at the plug end.  Is this a good reading for the Camshaft Positioning Sensor?  What are the parameters of this sensor?  Did I test it correctly?

All of the fuses in my fuse panel are all good, no blown fuses at all.

9) I then pulled off the CPS plug and let it hang and tried to start the car to see if the DME would register a no fault code for a non-functional/missing sensor.  I cranked it over multiple times.  The DME still did not pick up or store any fault codes, I still get a "1444" no fault code out of it.  I'm still puzzled as to why the DME is not picking up or storing any fault codes...



So, just to recap -

1) fuel pump is not kicking on when ignition is used
2) the fuel pump DOES work when power is hooked directly to it
3) the fuel pump DOES work when relay slots #30 & #87 are jumped at the fire wall w/ key on (should it do the same w/ key off?)
4) the fuel pump relay seems to be good per the above tests
5) fuel pump relay slot #86 is getting 12v
6) there IS power at the end of the fuel pump harness at gas tank
7) #11 fuse for the fuel pump IS good
DME is not storing any fault codes
9) there is NO spark when pulling plug wire, attaching spark plug to end of it, grounding spark plug and starting vehicle


I'm not sure about my CPS readout - can someone tell me if what I'm seeing as the OHMS for this sensor is bad or good and what the correct parameter really is?  The last thing I want to do is drop close to $200 on a CPS sensor and that not being my non-start problem.  IF the parameter is DOUBLE that of what it should be (my 1.180 as opposed to the supposed .650), does this mean the sensor is bad?


Can someone also tell me how to do or test the below:

A) DME relay - I think I probed the correct hole for the DME relay (is the DME relay to the LEFT or RIGHT of the fuel pump relay and what color is it???)   The hole I probed was I think tab #86 or #30 (can't remember at this point) w/ ignition "on" and I saw the same 11.85v readout as when I probed the same slots for the fuel pump relay.  I did NOT test the actual DME relay though, because I still have not come across tech or a thread showing how to test the DME relay.  Can someone please tell me how to go about testing the DME relay - or testing the DME relay slots at the firewall?  

B) How do I test to see if power is getting to the actual DME?  I have not been able to find a good thread about this procedure.

C) Where are the fusible links located on a 1991 318ic???  The factory battery location on this vehicle is under the hood on the passenger side...  I know the coupes/sedans have the battery in the trunk and fusible link locations are completely different.  Can someone point me in the right direction here so I can also check for any possible blown fusible links for a 1991 318ic??  How does one tell if a fusible link is blown, is there a visible physical characteristic to look for, does it need to be tested?

and lastly -

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE LEND ME A CONFIRMED WORKING CPS AND DME so I can see if the loaner parts WILL start my vehicle?  You can carve your name in the parts, label them, mark them, whatever - I am 100% trustworthy and WILL return the said parts to you 100% in the same exact condition as loaned...  I can supply TONS of references if needed, I'm on multiple automotive forums w/ tons of post counts and have over 1,000+ positive feedbacks on eBay as well...  Can someone PLEEEEEEASE help me out?

I just REALLY NEED to get this car up and running again and I've been searching numerous threads, links, forums, googling and trying to test for nearly everything to determine why it's not starting...

I APPRECIATE ALL of the help from ALL of you too.

Are there any other non-start diagnostic tests I am overlooking or have not done yet?

If anyone else has any more info or help, PLEASE DO ADD IT to this thread - this is most likely the ultimate diagnostic thread for a non-starting M42...  :cool:

[RED IS 91]

Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll send you my extra cps to try.
I'll put an ohm meter on my extra  cps and the one in my car tomorrow and tell you what it reads although I already know it will read 650 .

[RED IS 91]

Well ,I just went out and tested .
1) extra crank ps =  500 ohms
2) crank ps in good running car = 525 ohms
3) extra camshaft ps = 1190 ohms
4) camshaft ps in good running car = 1200 ohms
If you still want to try or buy  or try and buy my cps PM me.

[ak96ss]

If your check engine light comes on when you turn the key on (but before you start the car) then the DME should be getting power.

A relay is a relay is a relay (generally speaking!) - you test the DME relay the same way you test any other relay.

Fusible link is just a wire that will burn up if it gets too much current, kind of like a fuse. If you can find it (and I don't know where it is on an -ic, but it should be right at or near the positive battery terminal), follow it along and see if there are any parts of the wire cover that are melted or burned.

[Cobra Jet]

If your check engine light comes on when you turn the key on (but before you start the car) then the DME should be getting power.

A relay is a relay is a relay (generally speaking!) - you test the DME relay the same way you test any other relay.

Fusible link is just a wire that will burn up if it gets too much current, kind of like a fuse. If you can find it (and I don't know where it is on an -ic, but it should be right at or near the positive battery terminal), follow it along and see if there are any parts of the wire cover that are melted or burned.

Yes, when I turn the key "on", the CEL does illuminate for sure (stays solid).  I'm also assuming it's getting power if I'm able to do the pedal/code extraction test?  

What's your thoughts as far as it not storing any fault codes for a non-start?

As for the fusible links, I'll have to look for them, as I did not have any time tonight to look.


I read on B.Purcell's site that the (3) relays on the 318/M42 firewall are in this order (according to his site text and I'm ASSUMING if looking at the car while standing directly in front of it) -

1) LEFT = O2 sensor relay
2) MIDDLE = Fuel pump relay
3) RIGHT = DME relay


Here is the exact quote from his site:

Relays
 
The ignition relays are mounted on the engine side of the firewall. The one on the right is the DME relay, the middle one is the fuel pump relay and the left one is the oxygen sensor relay (if fitted).

What I am confused about is other threads or sites I have see or read, it seems others have stated the DME and O2 relays in the opposite slots - meaning different from what Brandon states on his site... ??  

Can someone confirm the DME & O2 relay locations?

I'll retest the 2 remaining relays (O2 & DME) - I'm assuming I test them in the same manner - 12v to #86, ground #85 - and check for continuity @ #87 & #30??

~~~~~

Thanks very much for all the help (again), it's appreciated.