Author Topic: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine  (Read 261463 times)

troman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Fuel consumption update
« Reply #315 on: August 14, 2012, 10:57:42 AM »
With new O2 sensor, 15w-50 Mobil 1 synth, and BP 91 I averaged 30.5 mpg highway this weekend. Have been getting 25.5 around town.

Just fitted COP last night, and car is really responsive. Going back to Pentosynth 5w-40 or Mobile 1 0w-40 now that the pan leaks are pretty much fixed.

Injectors highly recommended.

brent5631

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #316 on: October 03, 2012, 11:23:19 AM »
So after bein confused by this whole thread is there any consensus on a replacement injector for a stock m42? One that doesn't leak and seats correctly and flow the right amount.

JRYE30

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #317 on: January 05, 2013, 10:18:00 PM »
^^ In for the answer as well. I know I could start reading through 14 pages of people going back and forth, however, I'm just wondering if there is a specific kind that you guys recommend running on a stock m42?

jrobie79

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #318 on: January 08, 2013, 10:05:39 AM »
what the last two said ^^

bme30

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 178
    • View Profile
Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #319 on: January 08, 2013, 10:37:10 AM »
How about a sticky.. One post with the injector information.

bbarnumboy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #320 on: March 14, 2013, 10:19:52 PM »
Quote from: bbarnumboy;103661
Last year i had witchhunter do the cleaning /rebuild and flow tested them to 2% of each other and my recent upgrade to the mustang injector was a better and more noticeable increase.  nothing on paper, but it is smoother and especially idle. Torque seems very constant now, but that is all butt dyno :-)

not much on flow design but if you look at the stock setup, it seems that the automized fuel could re-group together before even leaving the long nozzel of the injector. the pintle is deep withing the nozzel.  On the mustang injector the pintels are right at the end.

In the same time i wondered the same thing as you. the new injector will stick into the head farther than the stock one, as seen in the pictures of length.

i have a 1993 e36 m42 and my old injectors were stock 4 pintles. I did not know that until after i swapped them in and looked closely.

was it worth it?  i am not 100% sure. But i will test the claim on MPG's going up on this next tank of fuel. If no power increase, a better automized and better burning fuel consumption should lead to less fuel consumption in the end. and thats worth it to me.

I will report back on mpgs

here are the pictures to compare that i didn't get around to posting, from the install.

BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector








8000 miles and still running great. No problems.  only complaint, they are alot noisier than the stock injectors.  The M42 is such a smooth quiet running engine as for noise levels right at the head. This is cause of the nice hydraulic lifters...so you can hear the injectors quite loud.

I have moved on to a supercharged setup with 42# injectors and i no longer need these practically brand new injectors. I installed these on November 29th 2011 as the post i made states, I put the car down in Feb of 2012 3 months after installing the injectors.  I will sell them for 50$ if anyone wants them. Worked great.
1993 318is SC Twin Screw supercharger build in progress.

http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14314

djmossm42

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #321 on: June 06, 2013, 09:26:37 AM »
Hello,

I came across these which are advertised as a direct upgrade for the 91-94 318i/iS. (0 280 156 013)

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product-search/?v=16383

Any thoughts/experience?
They flow about 15% more over stock, which seems like a lot.

While looking around I also found this very detailed spreadsheet with Bosch injector data. 

http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/products/injector/Bosch_Injector_data.xls

Source
http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2636.0

I found an EV14 injector in the list (0 280 158 107) and the specs are very close to stock, but the resistance is 12 ohm as opposed to 15.3 ohm and the distance between o rings is 60.65 as opposed to 60.5 yet the overall length is the same @ 77.

Also found the Bosch Datasheet for it.

(0 280 158 107) - http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en-US/literature/en-US/Injection_Valve_EV_14_Datasheet_51_en_2775993867.pdf

Some questions for an expert:

1.  Does the engine management accept a range of impedance values (12-16) and adjust based on the actual resistance values?

2.  Did E30 M42s have different injectors than E36 M42s during the same time frame 91-94

3.  Is the diameter standard for all Bosch injectors?  Don't want fuel leaks.

4.  Will EV14 work without having to upgrade engine management?

Thanks,
Bryon

Slowered318

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 222
    • View Profile
    • My '91 318is
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #322 on: July 03, 2013, 10:42:39 PM »
After reading this entire thread and some other forums, countless google searches, talk with a mustang specialist, and a call to Mark D.

I have come to the conclusion It's best to go with the Bosch 0280150556 if you feel the need for a 4 pintle injector OR the Bosch 0280150561 "Pink Top" if you have significant motor work and require more fuel (stroker or ITB's). The other option is to play it safe and stick with a fresh set of 0280150714's.

I ordered a set of reconditioned 556's, because I feel my current injectors are totally spent and I would like to try something a little more modern. IMO it's the equivalent of installing Bosch Platinum plugs.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 07:57:01 AM by Slowered318 »

Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #323 on: July 04, 2013, 08:48:00 AM »

How could either of those injectors make the car run better. Those are pretty much stock inj's.

Some people think if you use a "different, better, more cc inj",  then the car will run better. Really? Hmmmm....

I had the so called "714's/192cc stock inj's" cleaned and flowed. Guess what? 204cc's!

So....the 210cc or 212cc inj's aren't really any bigger. The stock motor makes 134HP if we're lucky, and that's on a fresh motor. Now, trying to give it more fuel on a tired motor?

The big question is.......will the car run better, smoother, and more efficiently by adding BIGGER inj's?
 
Maybe Mark and Barrie can chime in but....They probably tune their chips with stock inj's and there is still room to maybe add a mild street cam without altering the timing or fuel maps. Is that optimal and squeezing every last HP and TQ out of the motor? No of course not.
Can it be done, sure. But the chips are optimized for stock inj's:-)

Those inj's are definitely nowhere near enough for a stroker motor. The engine will be way too lean and burn out the inj's for running at 100%.  There is always a cushion built in when sizing inj's but not a 70+ HP gain.

My suggestion is to get some stock inj's, have them cleaned and flowed, and call it a day. The reason for the media blasting is to make them look clean with fresh paint. That's it.... The way they look has no bearing on how they perform.

Why don't you have yours tested? Before and after the cleaning, that's what all the places do. They'll give you a chart, and if you have a bad inj it will show when they test them. That's the only way to really know what your inj's are doing.

Most places charge between $14-$20 per inj plus postage. 2 places that come to mind are Marren and Cruzin Performance. There are many others as well.

Cheers,
~Ralph


bme30

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 178
    • View Profile
Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #324 on: July 04, 2013, 09:57:49 AM »
I heard that the stock injectors are good for 210hp.  I believe the MM m42 built motors use stock injectors with 205hp

Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #325 on: July 04, 2013, 03:14:06 PM »
I promise you that MM is not using a stock inj. Ask bmwman91......

The only way that you could possibly see a 70HP increase on stock inj's is if you ran 5 bar on your fuel pressure. MM never mentions any change to the stock FPR or adding an adjustable FPR.

Our stock inj's could possibly handle about 165HP at the crank on stock pressure. This is why when you add a chip and possible cam you can still get away without changing the inj's. However a new tune is always recommended.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Slowered318

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 222
    • View Profile
    • My '91 318is
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #326 on: July 04, 2013, 08:22:42 PM »

How could either of those injectors make the car run better. Those are pretty much stock inj's.

Some people think if you use a "different, better, more cc inj",  then the car will run better. Really? Hmmmm....

I had the so called "714's/192cc stock inj's" cleaned and flowed. Guess what? 204cc's!

So....the 210cc or 212cc inj's aren't really any bigger. The stock motor makes 134HP if we're lucky, and that's on a fresh motor. Now, trying to give it more fuel on a tired motor?

The big question is.......will the car run better, smoother, and more efficiently by adding BIGGER inj's?
 
Maybe Mark and Barrie can chime in but....They probably tune their chips with stock inj's and there is still room to maybe add a mild street cam without altering the timing or fuel maps. Is that optimal and squeezing every last HP and TQ out of the motor? No of course not.
Can it be done, sure. But the chips are optimized for stock inj's:-)

Those inj's are definitely nowhere near enough for a stroker motor. The engine will be way too lean and burn out the inj's for running at 100%.  There is always a cushion built in when sizing inj's but not a 70+ HP gain.

My suggestion is to get some stock inj's, have them cleaned and flowed, and call it a day. The reason for the media blasting is to make them look clean with fresh paint. That's it.... The way they look has no bearing on how they perform.

Why don't you have yours tested? Before and after the cleaning, that's what all the places do. They'll give you a chart, and if you have a bad inj it will show when they test them. That's the only way to really know what your inj's are doing.

Most places charge between $14-$20 per inj plus postage. 2 places that come to mind are Marren and Cruzin Performance. There are many others as well.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Ralph,

Don't get too worked up here. The "for a stroker" comment was just an example, maybe performance cam and MAF would have been better one?

As for the media blasting? It was NOT done to improve the appearance of my injectors. My previous mechanic couldn't safely remove the injectors and he went ahead and blasted/cleaned the intake manifold with them still attached. Maybe why I no longer take my car there, he also bolted the shifter carrier to the transmission, this eventually led to one of the tabs breaking off on my transmission and one too many miss-shifts.

Anyways, I think some improvement can come from the 4 pintle injectors, I will personally know soon enough. I don't want to remove the current injectors to send them out, that could take weeks! I would rather swap parts and get back on the road, even if it costs me a $100.


Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #327 on: July 04, 2013, 10:53:29 PM »
Nah I never get worked up 8) I just get excited about this stuff.

Good thing you 86'd that mechanic...lol

I guess I could find the extra set of 714's that I have and post them up to start a "spare for reconditioning set" so that everyone can share. This way no one would go without a spare set. It's kinda like paying it forward. You have the previous owner's set sent to get reconditioned, then sent to you. You then swap out that set for your originals and they are now reading to be sent out for the next person.

It might work.......

Cheers,
~Ralph
 


bmwman91

  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
    • http://www.e30tuner.com/
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #328 on: July 05, 2013, 10:26:16 PM »
Check out this monster Excel file with basically every Bosch injector and all sorts of data.

Basically, for a proper fit you want a model with a ~60.5mm distance between the O-rings. Note that some do NOT have the slits for the safety clips that hold them into the rail, such as the 24# ones like 0280155931.

Over the years I tried all sorts of funny stuff with different injectors. You won't beat the stock ones on a mostly-stock engine. The ONLY reason to need higher flow ones is if you bore and stroke the engine. Head work and cams alone won't require it, although you would need to get onto a dyno anyway so you could stick some 21# ones in there just for a little head-room in terms of duty cycle.

In speaking with Metric Mechanic about my 2.1L M42, they said that you can run stock injectors but that it is not advised to rev it over 6000RPM since it will run a tiny bit lean and max out the duty cycle. If I remember correctly, they said that the stockers are good for ~165bHP. The ones that I have in there now are 24# Bosch 0280150461 injectors. Same body as the stockers, but higher flow and they use the 4-hole outlet instead of a pintle. Of course, a chip came with them and the engine. Warsteiner has advised me to get on a dyno anyway to really get the last few ponies out, and I'll do that eventually.

For reference, I got the 461's from Turner motorsport. My order had been for 0280150914 "blue top" 24# injectors, but Turner stopped carrying those since they are out of production and the 461's are the same flow rate with the newer 4-hole design. Looks like they still need to update their website lol. I was surprised/concerned when I received the 461's expecting 914's until I called them and they explained!

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #329 on: July 05, 2013, 11:00:40 PM »
Yeah I was going to use the 155 715's then they got recalled so I went with the 150 947's which are actually the Ford Motorsport ones. Similar flow rates 256cc's vs 260cc's.

Cheers,
~Ralph