Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine

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Ricer Ennemi

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #210 on: April 24, 2010, 05:39:17 PM »
Quote from: kowalski;1819
do you have a wide band 02 sensor? or is it just the stock on?


What a wide band O2 sensor?

bmwman91

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #211 on: April 24, 2010, 06:13:45 PM »
A wide-band O2 sensor lets you accurately read the AFR.  Our cars (and almost all others) use a narrow-band O2 sensor.  Those are only accurate at the stoichiometric AFR, putting out 0.45V at 14.7 AFR for gasoline.  When you are rich or lean, they cannot accurately tell you by how much, only that you are either rich or lean.

I (and many others) are running the LC-1 WBO2 controller from Innovate Motorsports.  It has wo programmable outputs, one which is typically used to simulate NBO2 output & feed the ECU.  The other can be used for tuning & such.

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Ricer Ennemi

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #212 on: April 27, 2010, 08:08:09 PM »
How much $?$?


Warsteiner

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #214 on: May 02, 2010, 07:11:30 AM »
I'm sorry....what are you splurging on? Those flow exactly what the stock inj's do. I had my 714's sent out and tested because I wanted to see what they actually flowed instead of "internet myth." Well the internet says 192cc's and my test results showed 204cc's. Wow...automatic upgrade of 6.25% flow I guess and I didn't even have to buy a different set advertised at a higher rate. Now you could buy those and then have them flowed and find out that they flow 6.25% more and are actually 216.75cc's.  Who knows?

Both sets you're looking at are "re-manufactured" which means they have been cleaned.  :)

Have your own cleaned for $16+/ea. at a reputable facility or DIY.

My .02

Cheers,
~Ralph


Remanufacture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remanufacture may refer to:
* Remanufacturing, the process of reconditioning products to sound working condition.


Here is a shortened excerpt from :

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm

Begin Quote: "With the injectors out, you might see a build-up of crud on the tips. This is usually a mixture of carbon deposits, fuel additives and gas. Use a rag to wipe off as much as you can. Now, get a can of brake cleaner and spray the outside of the injectors and the tips. Use a soft brush to remove any grime on the tips. Now spray a bit of brake cleaner down the inside of each injector and blow them out with some compressed air. You may be surprised at what comes out of there. Each fuel injector has a small filter that collects any debris or crud in the fuel system. Spraying the brake cleaner in there will dissolve any deposits in there.

     A good way to clean the inside is to spray cleaner in there, then hit it with compressed air. Keep doing this until the brake cleaner coming out is clear. This is an indication that they are clean. CAUTION: be sure to use goggles when you do this, as the compressed air will spray the cleaner everywhere. You don’t want this stuff to get into your eyes.

     Once you have all the injectors clean, get some new fuel injector seals and place them on each end of each injector (Pelican Parts carries these seals for $0.61 each.) Now to re-install them, put a little engine oil on the outside of the seals and press them back into the fuel rail. The engine oil will help you push them into the fuel rail as well as help seal them. Now re-install the retaining clips the secure the injectors into the fuel rail.

     Now, go back to the car and plug each injector port with a small piece of paper towel. Now take some brake cleaner and a small brush and clean the area around the injector ports. This will clean the area and prevent any loose dirt or debris from entering the injector ports. Take the paper towels out and look inside each port to make sure there is no dirt in there. If there is, use a small vacuum to suck it out.

     Coat each lower injector seal with a small bit of engine oil and position the fuel rail/ fuel injectors back in place in the intake manifold. Now, using equal pressure on both ends of the fuel rail, push down until each injector seats in the manifold." End Quote.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 07:13:33 AM by Warsteiner »

tjts1

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #215 on: May 02, 2010, 06:46:17 PM »
Quote from: bmwman91;91225
OK, is there a final, DEFINITIVE answer about needing to modify anything to fit 155 injectors?

It seems that, from posts here, that washers & filing are not needed...they fit fine with everything stock.  Is this true?  The drawing comparing dimensions indicates that the EV6 & EV1 units indicates that the EV6 ones are ~3mm shorter.  Has anyone checked to see if the bottom of the injectors are fully engaged in the lower manifold when installed?

If they ARE too short, the only proper course of action would seem to be filing ~3mm off of the rail mounting points (easy to undo with washers at least).

You don't need to modify anything to fit the EV6 injectors. They pop right in without washers or filling anything in. I put washers in mine originally because I thought they were loose the first time around. Turns out I just lost the retaining clips that hold the injector to the fuel rail. I was wrong. I've installed these on 2 more M42 since without washers or any other modifications. None of them have ever leaked. EV6 injectors were designed to fit in cars designed for EV1 injectors from the very beginning. Volvo started using these in 1997 and 1998 across the model range without any modification. Same with ford, Mercedes and a few other manufacturers.
Quote from: bmwman91;91206
tjts1, you said you were running the 155 712's?  Those look to be LOW impedance units (2.1 Ohm)...is that right?
No, the information on that site is wrong. I tested them myself with a multimeter. They are high impedance, 14.xx ohm. I don't think any of the bosch EV6 injectors are low impedance.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 06:56:29 PM by tjts1 »
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bmwman91

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #216 on: May 03, 2010, 01:21:52 PM »
I purchased a set of Bosch 0 280 155 700 on eBay a couple weeks ago, and I sent them off to get flow tested. They were all flowing within 2% of each other, and had clean spray patterns.

Yesterday I did my fuel system overhaul (pump, filter, FPR, injectors...need to drop the fuel tank & do the hoses still). The 155 injectors go in without any problems. They are a little shorter than the stock ones, which has been mentioned, but the O-rings are fully seated in the lower manifold. The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!

I did have a few minutes of excitement when I pulled the fuel rail with the old injectors. The injector for cylinder 1 was missing its pintle cap...and it just happened that the intake valves for cylinder 1 were fully open (this car is cursed, I swear). I tried to get some little grabbers in through a spark plug hole, figuring the cap broke off during removal, but they weren't grabbing anything. I carefully turned the motor over with a wrench and there was no interference. It runs fine...so hopefully the cap just sort of burned up & went out. It was late and I had NO intention of pulling the head.

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bmwman91

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #217 on: May 03, 2010, 01:21:54 PM »
I purchased a set of Bosch 0 280 155 700 on eBay a couple weeks ago, and I sent them off to get flow tested. They were all flowing within 2% of each other, and had clean spray patterns.

Yesterday I did my fuel system overhaul (pump, filter, FPR, injectors...need to drop the fuel tank & do the hoses still). The 155 injectors go in without any problems. They are a little shorter than the stock ones, which has been mentioned, but the O-rings are fully seated in the lower manifold. The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!

I did have a few minutes of excitement when I pulled the fuel rail with the old injectors. The injector for cylinder 1 was missing its pintle cap...and it just happened that the intake valves for cylinder 1 were fully open (this car is cursed, I swear). I tried to get some little grabbers in through a spark plug hole, figuring the cap broke off during removal, but they weren't grabbing anything. I carefully turned the motor over with a wrench and there was no interference. It runs fine...so hopefully the cap just sort of burned up & went out. It was late and I had NO intention of pulling the head.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

tjts1

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #218 on: May 03, 2010, 01:56:30 PM »
Quote from: bmwman91;91873
The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!
Thats exactly my experience too. The ford injectors are a hell of a lot cheaper at the JY (read 5 finger discount) than buying new bmw specific injectors to replace old worn out ones.
I should add that my car passed California smog test (15mph/25mph) twice with the 0280 155 712 injectors so going slightly bigger isn't going to negatively impact emissions results.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 02:00:50 PM by tjts1 »
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pbgd3skier

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #219 on: May 17, 2010, 10:48:23 PM »
Interesting thread, but I'd like an opinion on the short of flow rate I should use.

I have a 91, 318i, and its fuel economy's been a bit shirty for the engine's size, so I am in the process of the "mess under the intake" And my lower intake manifold was of course gummy, same with the injectors.

Since I am in this deep, the concept of swapping the injectors to the 4 pintle variety seems attractive.  But I do not know if I should change flow rate.

Unmodified engine, probably won't do anything to it, if I do it would probably just be a chip.  Would you bother w/ swapping injectors?  Will I realize any benefits going to the 4 hole variety in a factory flow rate?
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ryanjv

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #220 on: May 18, 2010, 08:14:10 PM »
are we EV1 or EV6 connector? or will either work.

PumpItUp

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #221 on: May 19, 2010, 03:40:27 AM »
Quote from: pbgd3skier;92574
Will I realize any benefits going to the 4 hole variety in a factory flow rate?


YES dammit. we drive a high compression 4 cylinder, what do you think.
my question is, did any come out in our factory flow rate?

Warsteiner

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #222 on: May 19, 2010, 07:43:45 AM »
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg

You are so in luck today.  Here is a post you might have missed:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11654

~Ralph

DesktopDave

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #223 on: May 19, 2010, 09:16:56 AM »
Quote from: PumpItUp;92620
YES dammit. we drive a high compression 4 cylinder, what do you think.
my question is, did any come out in our factory flow rate?

+- 5% flow rate wouldn't matter IIRC.  Even 10% is likely within the design spec for these old FI systems.  It's not DI.
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tjts1

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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
« Reply #224 on: May 19, 2010, 11:51:56 AM »
In closed loop where the O2 sensor is keeping the AFR at 14.7 dead, you won't burn any more fuel than the stock injectors. I was running 22# injectors in place of the stock 19# and still had improved FE. It only adds extra fuel when the ECU goes into open loop (aka flooring it, high load) where your AFR will enrich. These cars already run way too lean at high load, high RPM so installing 10% or 20% larger injectors simply corrects that issue. A chip, no matter how its tuned, won't resolve the lean condition under high load. At most it can advance timing a little further to take advantage of high octane fuel. The idea setup is chip, large forward facing setup and 22# injectors. A few people are using 24# injectors but I don't have any first hand experience with that.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 11:55:01 AM by tjts1 »
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