Author Topic: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build  (Read 93798 times)

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2014, 12:58:41 PM »
Yeah, I can't seem to find any definitive answer on the cams. There is a guy claiming that the Jan 2005 issue of roundel states that the 95 cam is 242/242. Metric Mechanic mentions in their pdf they use the stock "228" cam on their fi 1.9 m42. Lots of varying information out there.

Are regrinds still an issue at Delta regrind?

benz-tech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2014, 09:42:20 PM »
I did a rough measurement of the difference between the lobe and base and got around 9.3mm on my late cams. curious to see how they compare to "early" cams
Pi is apparently the multiplier for your engine swap budget as well.

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2014, 06:07:16 PM »
Finally got around to this:

Measured my 95 m42 cams and my 91 cams both came out with 38.4mm and 47.7mm. With a difference of 9.3mm. So lift is the same. Now as far as duration?

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2014, 09:01:35 PM »
Still waiting on parts to come in for the m42. I didn't get much done this weekend. Decided to completely tear down the car after finding a lot more rust and decay that I remembered. This project is going to take a lot longer than I thought now. Found a surprise when I pulled the diff:


I knew it had been "clunking" quite a bit more than usual right before I retired it last spring.

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2014, 09:41:15 PM »
Does anyone know where to get a m47 crank? I contacted metric mechanic and I was told that it would be $1,850 for a crank from them and the "we aren't making any money at that price, we offer this service as a courtesy to people who buy our engines." That just seems a bit off the mark. But, I really don't know what they cost from the dealer so I haven't got a clue.

All I know is I probably won't be shelling out that much for a m47 crank! I just keep reading all the posts about m44 crank not being strong enough due to it being cast. So, needless to say its starting to make me question whether its internet here say or if this crank won't stand up to 250-300whp and the torque associated. 

wazzu70

  • Nasty Nick
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 18
  • Posts: 671
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
The cranks from BMW will easily be in that price range. Your other option is to have someone in Europe send you a crank for less.

Personally I believe the M44 crank is plenty strong. I have never seen one break. Only issue I have ever seen is the timing wheel on the rear counterweight breaking apart. Cast vs forged is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. There are many different ways to cast something and the modern methods are quite good.

If I was building another motor I would use the M44 crank because Im too cheap to buy a M47 unit :)
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

mabeer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 8
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2014, 11:54:31 AM »
Pelican Parts can order them for ~$1,180.  I got mine from the dealer for $900 (parts guys hooked me up).  You'll also have a core charge ~$100 as M42 crank won't suffice plus at least $50 shipping from Germany plus whatever else it takes to get it to you.  I paid about $20 to have my snout turned down.  I couldn't find anyone local to cut the keyway as the size is not common and the crank is nitrided.   I ended up  shipping it to Metric Mechanic and they charged me around $200 bucks plus I spent about $50 round trip shipping.  Total I have $900+$100+$50+$30+$200+50 = $1,330 into it.

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2014, 11:59:17 AM »
The cranks from BMW will easily be in that price range. Your other option is to have someone in Europe send you a crank for less.

Personally I believe the M44 crank is plenty strong. I have never seen one break. Only issue I have ever seen is the timing wheel on the rear counterweight breaking apart. Cast vs forged is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. There are many different ways to cast something and the modern methods are quite good.

If I was building another motor I would use the M44 crank because Im too cheap to buy a M47 unit :)

Ok, thanks for the words of reassurance. I will stay the course.

I just need to get these parts in so I stop questioning my build!


jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2014, 12:03:49 PM »
Pelican Parts can order them for ~$1,180.  I got mine from the dealer for $900 (parts guys hooked me up).  You'll also have a core charge ~$100 as M42 crank won't suffice plus at least $50 shipping from Germany plus whatever else it takes to get it to you.  I paid about $20 to have my snout turned down.  I couldn't find anyone local to cut the keyway as the size is not common and the crank is nitrided.   I ended up  shipping it to Metric Mechanic and they charged me around $200 bucks plus I spent about $50 round trip shipping.  Total I have $900+$100+$50+$30+$200+50 = $1,330 into it.

Thats what I don't get. It can be done for $1,330 by someone building 1 engine but a shop like MM that builds these for a living can't make any money at $1,800?

Hi there Jonathan,
We buy a new crank from BMW - $1375 - pay to ship it here.
Nest we pay to ship it to a crank grinder - pay therm, pay to ship it back.
Then there are some modifications we do ourselves.
The $1800 does sound like a lot but actually it basically covers our cost.
This crank we priced close to cost as a courtesy to folks who want one in one of our engines.
Just got all this info from out engine builder - no room for a discount.

Sincerely, Mary

Thats the email I received from MM.

mabeer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 8
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2014, 12:22:56 PM »
I suppose once you factor in R&D cost, cost of the cutter, other assorted overhead, labor etc $1,800 may not be that far off from break even.  I don't think they're jerking you around. 

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2014, 12:37:56 PM »
I agree I don't think they are jerking me around either. Just saying it would be nice for them to streamline their process somehow and make a couple bucks for themself as well as pass on a lower priced product. But, I digress. I am not in the market at that price.


bmwman91

  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
    • http://www.e30tuner.com/
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2014, 12:51:45 PM »
I don't recall how much exactly MM said the M47 crank was, but it took a couple of months to get it from Germany since they were in high demand last year. I think that it was in the neighborhood of $1750 for the crank + shipping + machine work in mid-2012. We all know about how the M47 crank needs to have the snout turned down and a second keyway added. Not sure why they send it to a grinding service...maybe they have to grind the counterweights a little and rebalance it to clear piston skirts (depending on the rod/piston combo)? I am pretty sure that it gets nitrided after the mods are done to it.

Anyway, if you can get one from Pelican for $1200 go for it. Machine labor at a precision shop will probably be $100-250, and you may want to consider nitriding the thing. I'd call Pelican before ordering to make sure that they can actually get it though. I remembered M47 cranks being ~$1200 like 7 years ago, and when I asked MM about that when they built my engine last year they said that the price on the part (new/unused) had gone up considerably since 2007.



MM does charge a premium, but they know their stuff. I must have spent 20 hours on the phone with them during my build and when valve springs were breaking, and half of that was just talking cars and stuff. They lost $1500 or so in shipping to 3-day ship the damaged engine across the country two ways + paid the shipping cost on my M42 long block core when I had to send the new head back, and they ate the cost of all repairs. The issues weren't their fault and weren't technically covered by their stated warranty, but they took care of it all. At the end of it all I still got my full core refund too. Sorry if this reads as a shameless plug for MM, but they are totally reputable.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

wazzu70

  • Nasty Nick
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 18
  • Posts: 671
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 10:39:11 AM »
I dont think there is any streamlining to be done on the process when orders are at best 1 a year :) M42 is not a high demand engine and even then no manufacturer is going to make the part until its ordered. Essentially every part is a one off prototype and it just does not make sense to do it any other way.

I wish it was cheaper too, but unfortunately its just not.
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

jrw21

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 11:23:12 AM »
Well, I guess I don't digress, I see at least one easy streamline. :P If what Mary says is true: They should have the crank shipped directly to the "grinder."  That would save them at least one shipping fee. But, like you said the quantity demanded to streamline isn't there so why bother.

Ok, so back on topic. Got all my head parts in!  8) Pictures to come tonight!

Before I drop this off at the machine shop. What do you guys think of a slight diy port? Any advice? I have all sorts of carbide tipped die grinder bits so no issues with tools. Just not sure on how much I should take off and where to take it. Also, should I do just the intake or exhaust too? Or since its going to be a high psi F/I motor is it really worth it?


bmwman91

  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
    • http://www.e30tuner.com/
Re: JRW'S 91 318is turbo build
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2014, 01:24:59 PM »
At most I would port-match the intake manifolds to one another, and the lower manifold to the head, but only grinding the manifold where it overlaps. Even on my built-up M42 from MM, they didn't port the head aside from a multi-angle job on the valve seat. Now, their big thing was having balanced power for their NA engine. Since you are going FI, you can probably get away with opening things up a bit. Still, I am sure you are well aware that you need to tread lightly when porting a head.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?