MAF Converter...99% READY TO ROLL!

Author Topic: MAF Converter...99% READY TO ROLL!  (Read 21716 times)

bmwman91

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MAF Converter...99% READY TO ROLL!
« on: December 19, 2006, 11:29:57 PM »
Hokay, so I tried something new.....

As those that are ready to lynch me if I do not get this done soon know, the car was bogging badly when floored between 2500-3000RPM.  According to some data logs I took, the AFR was hitting 19.5:1...BAD BAD BAD!  Throughout the rest of the range, the car was better than new.

So, one of my biggest goals with this was to have it work with the stock air filter box.  Well, before doing too much work redesigning the circuit and adding a throttle position input and all sorts of jazz, I went to TAP Plastics after work and got a few feet of 2 3/4" (70mm) OD acrylic tubing.  The intent: velocity stack.

So, I basically made the longest one I could...8" (200mm) off the front of the MAF.  I stuck it in the enormous cone filter I had laying around and went out for some tests.

For the gist of it, go to the end where I summarize the below info.

The bogging is not gone, but is a LOT better.  I might have a chance to run out tonight and do some logging to see exactly how it has improved, but flogging the car on & off of the highway for 40 minutes seemed encouraging.  Things are getting closer & closer to finalization.

A question...IF I was to leave it they way it is, how would buyers feel about the following conditions of use:
- Basically, do not open the throttle over 70% under 3000RPM.
My Note:  From driving experience, the best performance comes by gradually opening the throttle anyway.  Under 3500RPM, it seems that throttle openings above ~60% all have about the same result in acceleration.  If you DO slam open the throttle with ANY sensor on there, the car can actually bog, or at least not perform as well as a more gradual, smooth opening.  I am sure most of you have noticed this.  The resonance on this motor at those RPM's was already there, the VAM was just not as sensitive and more or less "ignored" this effect.

This is in no way to say that I will not solve this.  I have just been working on a solution in almost every free moment I have, and some moments when I should be sleeping.  I now have a solution or 2, one of which is more likely to work, but will involve interfacing with the TPS, which means more code, more parts and more cost to everyone.  I am somewhat anal retentive as far as engineering a product goes, and I suspect that I may be starting to over-engineer this.  I know I expect perfection, but maybe I am losing sight of the customers' desires; and for 1/4 the cost of the next available MAF solution they would be willing to make a little compromise.

So, in brief:
- Ditching the air box has improved results...not PERFECT, but far better.  Will post data logger results soon.
- Would "customers" be willing to NOT open the throttle more than 70% under 3000RPM (and as we have noticed with this motor, opening it over 60-100% under 3500RPM is all the same performance-wise)?
- Would "customers" be ok with ONLY using an open-element filter with a velocity stack tube (a tube which I could supply with the converter)?  Mounting and heat shielding are the responsibility of the buyer (I MIGHT look into making mounting brackets, but that would add $$ to the unit cost).

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dude8383

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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 11:59:06 PM »
im interested in this...and honestly i don't open up the throttle until i get past 3500 rpm as well.

how much is roughly going to cost us?


bmwman91

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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 12:37:21 AM »
At the moment I am looking at ~$250 for the converter and probably the attachment pipe/stack.  The MAF and mounting are up to the buyer for the moment.  I think these MAF's can be had for under $100 at various places.  Maybe ask Euro Nation...he tipped me off to it (and donated one to me).

I got bored the other night and needed a break.  I felt like doing something artsy, but was still thinking about the MAF.  So, I made a crude mock-up lol.



More....
http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/images/mafcon/solid01.png
http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/images/mafcon/wire01.png
http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/images/mafcon/solid02.png
http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/images/mafcon/wire02.png
« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 01:00:10 AM by bmwman91 »

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gunsmoke

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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 01:04:32 AM »
so, i've been reading this thread for a while, but i still feel a little in the dark... with this converter installed, what kind of performance gains are we looking at?

m3someday

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MAF Converter...99% READY TO ROLL!
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 10:12:37 AM »
though i have already converted to MAF, i would still be interested in your kit. I don't want to have to rely on the SAFC to mod the signal if there's a simpler, more foolproof and reliable method ( i can always ebay off the SAFC!)

BUT THE BIG QUESTION IS!....will your kit work on an m42 in an e36? though the engine is mechanically similar, i beleive the intake manifold and DME is different. I think there's probably just as much (if not more!) m42 e36ers running around so i think you're gonna make all your hard work more worth it if it fits both cars;) .

cheers!

bmwman91

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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 10:18:48 AM »
Yeah, this should fit the E36/work with it just fine.  The car is not different enough that there should be any problems.  My sister has a 1992 M42, so I am sure I can get her to let me experiment on it a little lol.

Once I get the last bits ironed out, I will go dyno it and get some definite numbers.  Hopefully this will have been worth my time.

IF the dyno numbers make this worth buying I am working on sourcing the hardware for mounting this.  I cannot produce the hardware myself in a very cost-effective manner, but I have made contact with someone who probably can.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 10:59:42 AM by bmwman91 »

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nickmpower

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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 02:39:55 AM »
do you have a data log? i wont want it if the arfs are all over the place

Gunni

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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2006, 03:21:40 AM »
Don´t you have control over the maf voltage to the ecu??

It took me 30min of driving to get the SMT6 to show identical voltages as the afm, but using a MAP sensor, a totally out of the range one, 0-3.5bar absolute

bmwman91

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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 10:08:18 AM »
I DO have total control, but the MAF is so sensitive that each individual intake pulse can be resolved.  There is a portion of the RPM range where here is some innate resonance/harmonic produced that drags the overall average of the output down...thus leaning out the mixture.  I am working on remapping some of the sensor data with some new math software I purchased.  The MAF is most sensitive to low flow rates and less to higher ones, so small amounts of backflow really hurt the overall voltage-averaging trend.  So, I am working on mathematically reworking the converstion function to accomodate for this.

The SMT6 has the advantage of taking throttle position, RPM and other inputs right?  If so, then it is going to have a far easier time calculating everything.  Being able to adjust the output according to specific TPS & RPM conditions would make everything a lot easier as far as the conversion goes.  One solution is for me to add a throttle input and have the conversion algorithm change under WOT conditions at certain flow rates...but this adds to the cost, development & debugging time and for might still be unnecessary.

I was actually thinking about doing a MAP conversion in the future, but that would basically be a very model-specific unit.  MAP based fueling is completely relient on a constant volumetric efficiency curve, and any changes to it require the pressure bins to be recalibrated.  That is why I went with a MAF for this...it reads ACTUAL air flow regardless of what is on the other side of it VE-wise.  The MAF is a lot more versatile as far as a product designed to replace the VAM.  A MAP converter would require individual tuning for each application unless the car was bone stock internally.

Oh and no, no log yet.  I will do get some tonight.  I have been sacrificing sleep for the past, I don't even know how many nights, to work on this after my full-time job.  I was starting to feel like I might be coming down with something last night, and the mexican food w/ a beer were making me sleepy, so I went to bed early to catch up.  I feel better today so I should be up for working late again lol.

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Gunni

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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2006, 01:14:07 PM »
the SMT6 has all kinds of inputs, analog, tps, rpm, temprature

bmwman91

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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 07:17:15 PM »
Cool beans.  Can it act as a stand-alone as well?

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Ramblin MAn

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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 09:40:27 PM »
So couldn't you add a capacitor or what amounts to a "power conditioner" to the signal line that would smooth the signal generated by the maf? Something totally analog so there's no code to mess with?

bmwman91

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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2006, 10:56:20 PM »
I presently have an RC filter on there, I just tapped into the wiring outside the circuit.  It would be good to see the post-filter signal as well, but I am about to program the remapped information into the converter.  It looks like it should help in the trouble-area.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
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bmwman91

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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 12:59:00 AM »
I got the remapped data in the unit and went out for a test.  The bogging is not gone, but it is a lot better.  When I log tomorrow I expect the AFR to be in a much safer spot.  Getting there.......

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Gunni

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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 03:56:29 AM »
Quote from: bmwman91;16023
Cool beans.  Can it act as a stand-alone as well?



Actually ,, yes.

using only 1 coil and a distributor it´s possible,
also running all the injectors at the same time,
It would be possible.

I´ve always wanted to use one for complete ignition control,