Author Topic: S50b32 psitons with M44 crank (Read 22956 times)

Warsteiner · « **Reply #30 on:** January 21, 2013, 10:32:29 AM »

That cam tray conversion does work. There is some work involved as you saw in the video, but there is more. You have to clearance 2 points on the ex. cam tray to fit it in the head properly and you also have to drill (1 or 2) new hole(s) in the #1 bearing cap for the cam so the chain rail guide will fit. I did this conversion years ago. Glad to see someone is trying new avenues as well.

Someone needs to do a bit more research on this subject I think before we can say what does and doesn't really work with beehive and dual spring set ups and to what rpm is safe. Sure you can rev 10K on a hyd lifter, but what happens to the valve in all this? It also depends on the cams you run as to where your power will be.

Solid lifters are always an option and safer for higher revs due to their stability, but who wants to take their valve train apart to do a valve adjustment on a street car? Some may....I prefer the, set it and forget it mode, on the street car. My track car however does have shim under bucket and has to come apart for a valve adjustment only because of the high lift of the cam which is over 12mm. That means re-timing the cams again which is no fun.

Just my .02
Cheers,
~Ralph

Warsteiner · « **Reply #31 on:** January 21, 2013, 12:44:48 PM »

On another note...getting back to the original question, You can use those in combination with each other as long as your math is correct. It should all fit just fine. Your main items that are not going to change are your crank and rod length correct? So you have to make adjustments to your small end in the rod to accept the piston, and shave the piston to fit the block height for your compression, and cut reliefs and dish the piston top as well. You should be able to make it work with no issues.

Good Luck.
Cheers,
~Ralph

wazzu70 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:15:30 PM »

Quote from: ispierrot;119430

The solution for cam lifters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k

Thats pretty slick. I think lightweight hydraulic units or shim under bucket at the M42 diameter are fine though.

How much lighter are the M50 style lifters?

colin86325 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 21, 2013, 05:48:21 PM »

A guy (ForcedFirebird) on E30tech.com has hydraulic lifters that weight 48grams that he uses in M50 engines. Supposedly they are rated to 7900 rpms.

thebrelon · « **Reply #34 on:** January 24, 2013, 02:58:50 PM »

does anybody know the dish volume of s50B32's pistons, please?
trying to figure out Cr with the set up we're talking about...

Boyracer · « **Reply #35 on:** January 27, 2013, 05:31:35 AM »

Quote from: thebrelon;119353

how are you going to fit 21mm diam wrist pin into 22mm rod small end?

You can swap con rod small end bushings from 22 mm to 21 mm. I did this with mine with M42 rods to fit W�ssner E36 M3 forged pistons. Cost about 170� so it was not cheap but it works.

thebrelon · « **Reply #36 on:** January 27, 2013, 06:22:57 AM »

ok. good to know. will stick to honda conrods anyway...

romkasponka · « **Reply #37 on:** January 27, 2013, 08:10:30 AM »

Quote from: E36-italia;119385

Not per se, you can rev the engine to 10K with hydraulic lifters... but not with the stock ones ;-)
The problem with our lifters is that the oil can't go out fast enough, buy them/modify them with a larger exit hole and you are in honda rev zone

I'd love to have a high revving short stroke 2lt M42.. it would beat the honda b16/B18 engines for sure.

Stock oil pump starts to cavitate at ~9000 rpm, so for higher rpm you need modified pump or dry sump system. Problem is not the hydraulic lifters it self but also the weight of the lifters. Anyway I bought supertech solid lifters, springs and valves to use with catcams 300deg cams

Only god knows when I will prepare my engine because have no time for my car already 2,5 years after marriage!

IlovM42 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:31:04 AM »

well, i reuse this tread as i'm about to purchase a M44b19, as I can't find a M42b18 from E36 at a decent price, and this M44 is a really good deal. so i wanted to know if there is person here using the M44 crankshaft and if there is anu issues with it.
Lot of people say it's worse than the M42 one for being cast and having only 4 counterweight instead of being forged with 8 counterweight for the M42 one, but i don't think there will be problem with an mid build engine running with a rev limit set at 7200 rpm.

Going to look if i find more info about M44 crank but i will go for the second setup i think, M44 crank with stock 140mm rod and S50b32 pistons, for a total displacement of 1950cc instead of 1881cc for M42 crank with S50b30 pistons.

wazzu70 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:33:26 PM »

You wont have any issues with the M44 crank at those revs or power level.

Internet speculation just scares people into believing nonsense.

IlovM42 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2013, 02:11:47 AM »

yeah it's what I think too.
I will put M41 bearing on it, it appear they are stronger/better. does someone know about that? havent find info at the moment
just need to find out what pistons I will use and if I need to get them machined to fit the engine and have a decent CR

IlovM42 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 20, 2013, 06:49:11 AM »

So M44 is in my garage, but I can't use S50B30 euro pistons as they will be too high.
best bet will be the S50b32 US pistons (or better say S52B32) as they have a KH of 31mm which will be perfect, putting the pistons only 0,6mm higher that stock ones, and they already have 22mm wrist pin so no need to change the bearing on the rod.
Now I need to find more info and 4 of them or use the S50b30 euro piston I have and machine them down to make them fit and change rod bearing from 22mm to 21mm

Warsteiner · « **Reply #42 on:** February 20, 2013, 08:08:34 AM »

No matter what you decide to do you will have to "give" somewhere. Whether it be in the piston, rod, crank, head, block or even the head gasket. You really need to look at all of those as ONE and not separate. They all work together and have to be exact in height for the engine to work. I say this all the time to people that want to just mix and match and whatever with parts.......Do your MATH first and see where you end up. You can't just go by what the specs say on a piece of paper because they may not work for you. Sure you can shave a piston and block and a head but what about rod length and crank throw and H/G thickness and dished piston and valve reliefs for cams and and and...

What compression is that? Now is that standalone ECU or chipped M42 or flashed M44? No matter how the engine turns out it is definitely a custom tune.

It can and will all work, and work really well as long as you do your math and plan out the entire engine before you start buying parts. That includes cams and intake and exhaust as well. Air in needs to get out just the same.

You can use any part you want as long as you know the other parts can work with it as well. There is a lot of info on this forum and experience from members that have gone this route. Why not plan out a complete engine and post it to the group and then get some feedback? I plan on posting my complete stroker build shortly. This way everyone can see what I did and then possibly expand from there.

HTH,
Cheers,
~Ralph

IlovM42 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:23:01 AM »

Warsteiner I'm 200% agree with you, thisis why i try to go little by little.
First step was to find an engine, I was planning on using an M42 and just put S50b30 pistons in it as I know peoples who already done it but it happens that I had this great deal with an M44, so need to start thinking again.

I know all need to work together as one, and that i will not find part that i can put in and just crank the engine, there will need machining and other things to work together but It's possible to reduce the amont of work involve and for sure the cost.
For example S52B32 pistons looks to be the more economic choice, as they have a 22mm wrist pin like M44 rods and they have lower KH, so there will be less work to make them fit, but will they give the better results etc...I still don't know

this is my very first build, so I have a lot to learn and it wil take time, I'm not very kind of doing a dedicated post for my build as I know it will take long time to have something made and the result is people being annoying

IlovM42 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2013, 04:34:02 AM »

well I bump this post a little as i have to make a choice.
Do I use the S50b30 pistons I already have or do I buy the S52 pistons I have found...

good point for S50b30 pistons
-already have them
-they need to be decked and maybe pocketed for the valves but this will be good to have the desire CR (don't know the price to do it yet)
- M44 headgasket can be used
bad points for S50b30
-need to change rod bearing as wrost pin is 21mm on pistons (22mm on rods)

good point for S52 pistons
- will be add a little more displacement
-they sit 0,6mm lower than S50b30 pistons (0,6mm higher than M44 ones) so less to take off no need to cut new valve groove
- wrist pin diameter is 22mm so no need to change rod bearing

bad points for S52
- don't have them yet but know where to find them
- don't know the volume of the piston so, can't estimate the CR with them, if it's too low, I can take out some volume on the combustion chamber by surfasing the head, but how much is needed?
- need a custom/performance gasket (with lower thickness to augment CR? will this be enough?)

So if people on here know the volume of S52 pistons, this will help me a lot

thx

Author Topic: S50b32 psitons with M44 crank (Read 22956 times)

IlovM42

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