Author Topic: DASC power increase (%) (Read 15432 times)

M42_Jester · « **on:** March 08, 2011, 06:14:38 PM »

Just a quick question about the DASC Kit and it's performance increase. My research shows that applying this kit to a standard M42 engine will give an increase of approx. 60% in both power and torque. would this be accurcate?

here are some results of Power/Torque increase on a M44 powered 318iS with the DASC, as seen in "101 Performance Projects for your BMW: 3 Series 1982 - 2000" by Wayne R. Dempsey

Stock Power: peak ~138hp (103kW)
Stock Torque: peak ~125ft-lb (175Nm)

SC Power: peak ~220hp (169kW)
SC Torque: peak ~175ft-lb (230Nm)

just curious if these are correct? if so, by applying the DASC to the MM 2100 FI Rally engine (205hp, 225Nm) the power would increase to well over 300hp!! very much excited to hear your opinions on this.

Cheers,
Jester

bmwconnect · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2011, 07:24:09 PM »

DASC @ 7-8psi = 180-185whp tuned
DASC @ 10psi = 195-200whp tuned

There is a few guys running DASC 15psi pullys with meth, but I have not heard of what numbers they are putting down

as a comparison
M42 10:1 Turbo @ 12psi = 240-250whp tuned

14.7 psi will double your NA crank hp and is a good rule of thumb to fallow, but is in noway accurate due to the real world variables

You have a solid motor if your running MM, you didn't mention what pully size you plan on running, but just becarefull of the heat that SC kit can produce, can be deadly .

M42_Jester · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2011, 06:30:45 AM »

Quote from: You have a solid motor if your running MM, you didn't mention what pully size you plan on running, but just becarefull of the heat that SC kit can produce, can be deadly .[/QUOTE

For now it's just forward planning. But i would want to run as much boost as possible. When u mention heat can be deadly, do u mean for the pistons? I do realise that when you have pistons that aren't rated for forced induction they can melt, but the MM engine i'm looking is designed to counteract that. specifically made for forced induction. or was there something else I should be worried about?

Jester

DesktopDave · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2011, 08:25:58 AM »

I'd suspect the big limitation of the DASC is that it's designed for a relatively high-compression stock M42. It also doesn't run an IC (though I loved that thread with the ZeroG manifold water-to-air unit, very clever stuff there).

I'd cut compression down, like 8:1 or so, if I was doing forced induction. Personally, I'd go for a turbo too, they give a lot more design choices than the DASC and they don't demand so much parasitic drag.

The MM engine is designed to run NA as I see it, high compression & no knock sensors are something to think about.

doitover · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2011, 10:31:50 AM »

I hate to be a heretic but for the cost of the MM engine and a supercharger, you could be putting an LSx in.

I have the DASC on the stock 1.8 and really like it but around town it
drives pretty much like what I imagine a stock 1.8 would feel like. With the throttle open and above 4K RPM, you are going for a ride, but for normal driving the dual turbo MINI Cooper S would stomp it.

Quote from: M42_Jester;102123

Just a quick question about the DASC Kit and it's performance increase. My research shows that applying this kit to a standard M42 engine will give an increase of approx. 60% in both power and torque. would this be accurcate?

here are some results of Power/Torque increase on a M44 powered 318iS with the DASC, as seen in "101 Performance Projects for your BMW: 3 Series 1982 - 2000" by Wayne R. Dempsey

Stock Power: peak ~138hp (103kW)
Stock Torque: peak ~125ft-lb (175Nm)

SC Power: peak ~220hp (169kW)
SC Torque: peak ~175ft-lb (230Nm)

just curious if these are correct? if so, by applying the DASC to the MM 2100 FI Rally engine (205hp, 225Nm) the power would increase to well over 300hp!! very much excited to hear your opinions on this.

Cheers,
Jester

bmwconnect · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2011, 12:13:31 PM »

Quote from: M42_Jester;102134

For now it's just forward planning. But i would want to run as much boost as possible. When u mention heat can be deadly, do u mean for the pistons? I do realise that when you have pistons that aren't rated for forced induction they can melt, but the MM engine i'm looking is designed to counteract that. specifically made for forced induction. or was there something else I should be worried about?

Jester

What I was referring to was exactly what dave pointed out, and that is there is no induction air cooling system with DASC kit and that means you are very limited to how much boost you can run without introducing meth injection

my advice to you would be to go turbo as well
$1500 later and I was boosting 15psi stock internals 10:1 compression, and making 270-280whp tuned

mysetup with a mild tune http://www.youtube.com/user/bearsbmw?feature=mhum#p/u/1/M38uEQetPKU

sure it is a little more custom work, but overall you will appreciate the flexibility you get with a turbo setup, not to mention more overall power

M42_Jester · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:52:11 PM »

Quote from: DesktopDave;102137

The MM engine is designed to run NA as I see it, high compression & no knock sensors are something to think about.

MM have designed an engine that is made for Forced Induction. it has lower compression (8.6:1) and the pistons have been designed to cope with the heat.

I've got a spec sheet on the engine itself if u want to know more about it. but it doesn't specify whether it's for Turbo or SC applications. agreed, you do get a lot more power out of a turbo, but at the same time, i don't want to be another one of those people who sticks a turbo on his car to get more power. I want to go the way of the DASC to be different from the other dickhead drivers down here in oz...

Ryann · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2011, 08:34:31 PM »

An s/c'd car feels different than a turbo car because the boost is linear and gives an even bump in torque/hp across the rpm range. It'll feel more like you dropped a six in it. Turbo cars feel like they are building power exponentially as you climb in rpm's, more exhilarating imo.

I'd guess though that s/c'd m42 vs. turbo m42 with the same peak specs, the s/c car is going to be quicker simply because it's more flexible.

doitover · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2011, 12:05:40 PM »

It isn't that clear cut though. The bypass on the DASC doesn't start boosting until 1/2 throttle and it is at full boost only at full throttle.

I like mine and I suspect it would improve with a good tune but it isn't a powerhouse at low RPM, moderate accelerator input. It's difficult to not be on one side of the line or the other, at least for me.

Having said that, I've noticed that I'm generally leading the crowd from stop lights. I have a pretty light foot and short shift a lot.

M42_Jester · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2011, 05:37:52 PM »

Quote from: doitover;102154

It isn't that clear cut though. The bypass on the DASC doesn't start boosting until 1/2 throttle and it is at full boost only at full throttle.

I like mine and I suspect it would improve with a good tune but it isn't a powerhouse at low RPM, moderate accelerator input. It's difficult to not be on one side of the line or the other, at least for me.

Having said that, I've noticed that I'm generally leading the crowd from stop lights. I have a pretty light foot and short shift a lot.

I understand that the bypass would cause some differences from a normal type SC...but wat would happen if they bypass module was either closed shut perminantly, or removed all together? would that not giv u the boost u want all the time?

Jester

PS. i've also noticed that my original question has yet to be answered

I was just wanting to know if i put the DASC on the MM 2100 M42 FI engine, would i get roughly a 60% increase in power and torque like it does to a standard M42?

bmwconnect · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2011, 06:16:35 PM »

Quote from: M42_Jester;102162

I understand that the bypass would cause some differences from a normal type SC...but wat would happen if they bypass module was either closed shut perminantly, or removed all together? would that not giv u the boost u want all the time?

Jester

PS. i've also noticed that my original question has yet to be answered I was just wanting to know if i put the DASC on the MM 2100 M42 FI engine, would i get roughly a 60% increase in power and torque like it does to a standard M42?

What is the official compression ratio on the MM 2100?

Warsteiner · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2011, 07:57:28 PM »

8.6:1

B318M42W · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:50:01 AM »

Quote from: M42_Jester;102162

I understand that the bypass would cause some differences from a normal type SC...but wat would happen if they bypass module was either closed shut perminantly, or removed all together? would that not giv u the boost u want all the time?

QUOTE]

you'd be running boost at idle, and bad fuel economy too. the new units have an incorporated bypass valve at the factory. it's there for a reason and i wouldn't run without a bypass. besides... when do you really need the s/c? more power and torque so full throttle or close to it.

M42_Jester · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2011, 02:23:42 AM »

I'm just wondering wat the numbers would roughly be on an MM 2100 M42 Forced Induction with the DASC... does anyone know? was i close to the mark with the 60% power and torque increase? if so...here are the numbers:

--MM 2100 M42 FI--
Power: 205hp
Torque: 225Nm

SC Power: 328hp (60% of 205 = 123)
SC Torque: 360Nm (60% of 225 = 135)

Does that sound about right to anyone else?

Roughly 273rwhp (328 - 17%) unless you change the Diff and so on...but the torque would blow anyone away! is anyone else as excited about those numbers as I am?

Jester

doitover · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:43:52 AM »

MM 2.1l 8K +
DASC 3K +

For over 11K, not really

That would almost get you a 95 M3 for instance.

I suspect you could get 90% of the joy for 1/4 the money.
I wonder what ROB_E30 has in his engine.