Author Topic: no start, plugs fouled within seconds (Read 9846 times)

jakeb · « **on:** December 13, 2010, 06:04:23 PM »

I am working on a m42 swap into a 2002....this is the 4th one I have done and the other three have started without trouble. This one not so much....

Here is what I have checked and what is going on....

92 e36 m42, e36 automatic trans, e30 intake manifold

It will start briefly and idle very very very badly, normally buck and shaking all over the place. Then quit....

Here is what I have checked/done so far....
fuel pump runs (both a prime and when cranking)
replaced Cam sensor with a spare
checked crank sensor (ohmed out, also when connected I have spark when discoed there is no spark)
good spark
all four injectors are firing (checked by pulling the intake and cranking while the intake was spraying onto a box)
swapped in a different fuel pump (known good)
swapped in a different Fuel pressure regulator (unknown condition)
Tried three different AFMs
swapped in a different ICV
checked compression, around 180-190psi on all 4 cylinders
swapped two different ECUs

So it will start once but runs very very badly, bucks, kicks, shakes all over, and then stalls violently. Not sure how else to describe it.

When I pull the plugs they are wet with gas and BLACK, to the point they look very fouled. What could be causing too much fuel? Also after cranking and the little bit of starting it does do when I pulled a plug right away I got black smoke coming from the spark plug hole.

The only things I haven't swapped out are
injectors
coolant temp sensor
TPS
crank sensor (but I know it works)
the entire engine (ha)

any guesses? The history of the engine is unknown......it was pretty black looking inside. Out of all the engines I have swapped this one looked the worst inside....just lots of burned on oil.

Not sure what to check next.... I do another another m42 I could swap in. I also have another m42 that I could swap injectors with

DesktopDave · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2010, 07:42:48 PM »

You checked the cam timing, right? If the motor is that bad, might be a cam skipped a few teeth or the crank is out. Other than that, I'm not sure what else to say. Sounds like you've already checked everything else out.

jakeb · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2010, 07:57:59 PM »

I have yet to check the cam timing....that is something on the list tho. I think I will check that before I swap the intake off my other car. Is the process to put it at TDC and then the back of the cams should be flat?

The other thing that I will mention is that I did have to lengthen the injector harness because it was a little short for how I have to route everything. Could that cause an issue? I can't see that being a problem.... the wires were solder and shrink wrapped, I checked the resistance back to the dme connector and think I got below 1 ohm

KenC · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2010, 08:28:29 PM »

Are you getting spark on all four cylinders. When the engine shakes, it's usually because one cyl isn't firing.

Too much fuel = bad FPR

jakeb · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2010, 08:34:11 PM »

Only tested at one spark plug but I could check the others sometime. I ordered a FPR and it will be here thursday so I will have to wait and go from there. Or swap another intake on tomorrow...

Odd that two FPR could be bad, but it is possible I guess.

KenC · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2010, 09:02:30 PM »

Yeah, definitely check all the plugs and report back.

colin86325 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2010, 09:57:43 PM »

Check for a bad intake manifold leak. Make sure nothing such as a wire has dropped between the mating surfaces.

jakeb · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:25:09 AM »

Quote from: colin86325;99610

Check for a bad intake manifold leak. Make sure nothing such as a wire has dropped between the mating surfaces.

not a bad idea.....the intake on the engine is not the same one that came on it so maybe one of the little bosses is holding things up. I also remember hearing it hiss a bit after starting and dieing....from somewhere under the intake

I'll pull the intake after work and check that.

jakeb · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2010, 02:51:58 PM »

still the same issue....

I pulled the intake and made sure all mounting surfaces were clean...and then reinstalled the intake, there should be no air leaks now.

checked the cam timing.....I don't have either of the tools but with the first cylinder at the top of its stroke the backs of the cams are flat and both of the first lobs are point in as shown in the bently. Unless it is 180 degrees out but not sure how that could happen.... I could not get the little plug out where you put a pin to the flywheel/flexdisc to know it is at tdc.

I checked and I have spark at all four plugs when cranking....

Still no start....it will start for a few seconds but runs very very poorly.

Here is a picture of a plug after cranking for a little bit, it is soaked with fuel...then after 30 seconds it is evaporated and black.

I am not sure what to check next.....

I have another intake I could pull off my own car and swap on (to test the injectors and regulator). I have a new regulator I could swap on...... Another thing I notice is that the plug sounds the same all the time...I thought I have noticed on others that after pressure has built up the sound of the pump changes a little bit.

anyone have any ideas?

I actually have another m42 I could swap in but would like to find some reason why it's not running before I do that....if the engine is bad I will swap it for another but...so far timing seems ok, I have compression....

KenC · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2010, 03:51:30 PM »

Swap in your new FPR, add a LITTLE oil to each cyl and try again.

jakeb · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2010, 05:05:08 PM »

new FPR in....cleaned and torqued plugs, it did start but ran about the same as it did before. It may have ran a little bit better but not really. Pulled the plugs....soaked in fuel

jakeb · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2010, 05:24:39 PM »

could it be something with the automatic trans?

I am really at a loss of what to do next.

tom d · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2010, 12:52:22 AM »

you should be able to hear the injectors cycling. sounds like they are staying open.

jakeb · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:00:11 AM »

When I pulled the intake and set it against a box and cranked the injectors fired and then stopped when i let of the key....

When I back probe the injectors I get 12v at both sides of the connector but that might be normal when the dme isn't grounding the other side...

jakeb · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:53:21 AM »

One thing that I have done different with this swap compared to others is that I had to lengthen the fuel injector harness to work with the intake I have to use. So....I cut, added wire, soldered, and heat shrink-ed the connection on each wire. Not sure why that would cause a problem but it is possible I guess....

I am at a loss.....