M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: mabeer on March 17, 2013, 04:30:34 PM
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Well I guess I might as well document this refresh or build or whatever it turns out to be. Long before the young man in the picture was even a thought in our minds my wife and I bought this car for her birthday in the fall of 1990. I remember test driving Jettas and Miatas but when we drove this that was it. It's his car now and we're having a great time working on it. Next step is to pull the head and take the head and block to the machine shop to get things checked out. What direction we go, either simple refresh or bore and stroke will depend on what we find. More to come.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bryceee_zpsaf82ad09.jpg)
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COOL! I was stationed overseas and missed out on that part of my son's lives. I look forward to reading your documentation of the journey.
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Awesome! Bore/stroke while you've got it out, and boost later!
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Ugh, can't believe it's been over a month since we pulled that thing. Well a week in awesome Colorado Springs where Bryce visited the Air Force Academy and a mad rush to finish clients taxes and now back to matters at hand. One thing about the trip to Colorado, once Bryce is a junior he can take out his car. This fits nicely with unevolved's suggestion to bore and stroke while it's out and boost later. I think boost may be mandatory at 7,000 feet. :D
Anyway on to the progress (or lack thereof):
I was expecting to see quite a bit of corrosion on the block because the profile gasket was pooched out and I had a slight coolant leak I could never track down, but I think it looks great
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/m42goodies-2_zpsea3bf691.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/m42goodies-2_zpsea3bf691.jpg.html)
Some of the old but surprisingly good bits.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/m42goodies_zps7a13fa92.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/m42goodies_zps7a13fa92.jpg.html)
The crank seems in great shape. All the mains measure 1.769 across both axis, the end play was somewhere between .005-.006 inch, let's call it .0055. Here's a picture of journal 3 where the notorious 180 deg. thrust bearing resided. I've never done this before but it looks pretty good for a 220k mile engine. What do you experts think?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/m42crank-2_zpsa3d8d258.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/m42crank-2_zpsa3d8d258.jpg.html)
So that's it for now. I'm going to run the block and head to the machine shop to double check my measurements. They both appear flat using the straight edge feeler gauge technique but I want that verified of course. Cylinder one seems a bit wonky, 2-4 seem cylindrical, but I was just using a telescoping gauge and a micrometer for the cylinder bore rough check sine I don't have a dial bore gauge.
The endless research continues and I am having trouble deciding what direction to take this thing. Good problems to have in my opinion.
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That's the number 4 journal and it looks fabulous! Make sure you use the full thrust bearing upon assembly. I pulled my engine almost a year ago and you've already outpaced me. Nice work!
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Thanks keflamen, yep 4th journal. I had to go out to the garage and figure out why I counted wrong. :)
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Definitely plan on 360 thrust bearing as well.
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Crank looks great. The ones that have issues are obvious! The look all gouged up.
All new bearing kits for M42 come with a 360deg thrust bearing. Well thats what I have been told, but im sure someone somewhere will get a kit with a 180deg and prove me wrong :)
Consider getting the coated bearings. They arent much more and seem to really help if your engine loses oil pressure unexpectedly.
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Which way would you go?
1) given the crank looks good-simply go up one size on pistons, keep stock m42 crank and put money into head and cams? What cam specs don't know.
2) M47 crank, keep stock rods, custom JE pistons, re grind cams probably to Warsteiner's 250/250. I think I'd sacrifice a bit of displacement and only go 85 and preserve some meat for a later day.
I'm leaning towards #2 for a couple of reasons. Take care of the bottom end now while its out and apart, head can be reworked later if results aren't satisfactory. It would be a reverse build from what i8ur911 is doing (I think he's doing more #1).
Am I being penny wise and pound foolish for keeping stock rods?
I look forward to your thoughts.
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What is the intended use for the car? As a mixed street/track car, stroking makes a ton of sense if you can afford it. Most people bypass stroking due to increased cost.
For a strictly track car the shorter stroke/bigger bore can be desireable, especially if you are shooting for the higher revs.
For 93.42% percent of the people, a stroker crank makes the car much more enjoyable :)
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Ok, good to know. It's a street car. Just ordered M47 from dealer :). Part's guy said sometimes the European only stuff gets bounced back sometimes the order goes through fine so we'll see. Should have it in 7-10 days.
What about keeping stock rods and using JE pistons? Any downside?
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On a street motor you are probably fine with stock rods. On the other hand, the rods are a weak link if you want to really add some power (turbo 300+whp).
Rods really arent that expensive overall, so its nice insurance. If you wanted to keep factory rods, one smart option is to upgrade the rod bolts to ARP hardware.
Im sure you know, but the crank snout needs to be modified to work. The keyway for the woodruff key needs to be lengthened.
Check out the Metric Mechanic brochure for M42/M44 engines if you havent already as it has lots of great info.
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You also need a new crank bolt and custom spacer.
~R
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Thanks wazzu70 & Warsteiner. I did know about turning the snout down and the required keyway, but not the bolt or spacer. Do you have any specs?
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Crank order looks like it went through so I went ahead and got the pistons ordered. I ordered pistons and rods from Steve at top end racing, nice guy . Went with JE 85.0mm with 28.15 CH shooting for CR of 10.8/1. I went 85mm bore to preserve future upgrade/maintenece options, I know the restraint was amazing :). I went ahead and ordered new rods too, wazzu70's words seemed wise so upgraded those to Pauter 140mm.
The head pressure tested okay and was only out .0015 inches from flat. I think I'm going to have the head freshened up at the local machine shop although Korman is working up a quote for me too. Steve at top end suggested running with stock cams and see how we like it. I'm not opposed to dropping new cams or leaving the old. I just don't want to lose the bottom end the M47 will theoretically give us. The goal here is just a fun extremely streetable ride not maxing out the dyno or a screaming track rat, but at the same time I don't want to leave fun usable power on the table given everything else we're doing. Does that make sense? Anyway, I'm very intersested in your opinions on this.
Now while we're waiting for parts attention shifts to getting the rest of her tidied up. Rear sub frame bushings, trailing arm bushings, sway bar bushings and end links. We picked up some ST springs a while back for $70 so we'll get those on along with some new Bilstein sports. I did the front bushings years ago and they may be do for some attention again. New seals for tranny as well as all new shift linkages etc.
Also planning on redoing power steering hoses cause they leak like crazy.
Last summer I just replaced rear wheel bearings, some remanned?? (questionable) half-shafts, front hubs, drive shaft, center bearing and guibo and so basically she's going to be new from front to back till we are done.
Let tme know what you think about the head.
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I am envious of your parts order! The Pauter rods are very nice! The pistons sound great too. Nothing wrong with leaving some more meat on the cylinder walls. Going too big a bore can cause problems with thin spots.
Are you planning on using the stock flywheel? I would seriously recommend upgrading to a lighter weight unit as it made a huge difference on my car.
Honestly, the stock M42 cams are pretty pathetic and are built for economy more than any performance. Some street upgrade cams will still keep near stock drivability and have a lot more potential. Something like the VAC 269/269 would be perfect IMO.
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Thanks wazzu70 & Warsteiner. I did know about turning the snout down and the required keyway, but not the bolt or spacer. Do you have any specs?
NO worries.....I'm glad to see more people are going for it. Here is the info for the bolt and spacer. I will give credit where credit is due.....If he's still on the list, the bolt goes to Lund8200's.
I developed the spacer myself.
New Crank spacer 20.35mm
old crank spacer 13.9mm
thread length 37mm(You have to cut the bolt)
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Which way would you go?
1) given the crank looks good-simply go up one size on pistons, keep stock m42 crank and put money into head and cams? What cam specs don't know.
2) M47 crank, keep stock rods, custom JE pistons, re grind cams probably to Warsteiner's 250/250. I think I'd sacrifice a bit of displacement and only go 85 and preserve some meat for a later day.
I'm leaning towards #2 for a couple of reasons. Take care of the bottom end now while its out and apart, head can be reworked later if results aren't satisfactory. It would be a reverse build from what i8ur911 is doing (I think he's doing more #1).
Am I being penny wise and pound foolish for keeping stock rods?
I look forward to your thoughts.
Number 2 is a great option!! The 250* cams are more aggressive than the Schrick 256* at .050" with 222 degrees vs Schrick with 215 degrees. That little bit of boring will not make a big difference in displacement. Definitely port the head!!
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Crank order looks like it went through so I went ahead and got the pistons ordered. I ordered pistons and rods from Steve at top end racing, nice guy . Went with JE 85.0mm with 28.15 CH shooting for CR of 10.8/1. I went 85mm bore to preserve future upgrade/maintenece options, I know the restraint was amazing :). I went ahead and ordered new rods too, wazzu70's words seemed wise so upgraded those to Pauter 140mm.
The head pressure tested okay and was only out .0015 inches from flat. I think I'm going to have the head freshened up at the local machine shop although Korman is working up a quote for me too. Steve at top end suggested running with stock cams and see how we like it. I'm not opposed to dropping new cams or leaving the old. I just don't want to lose the bottom end the M47 will theoretically give us. The goal here is just a fun extremely streetable ride not maxing out the dyno or a screaming track rat, but at the same time I don't want to leave fun usable power on the table given everything else we're doing. Does that make sense? Anyway, I'm very intersested in your opinions on this.
Let tme know what you think about the head.
I think the Pauter rods are awesome!! I spoke with Steve years ago about the pistons as well and we came up with 28.15mm for 140mm rods as well and he was ok with that.
It looks like you will have about the same engine specs as I do. Barrie can tune a chip or you can go with MSII and I can give you my file. I'm running ITB's and bigger M42 header with E30M3 exhaust. Also 24lb inj's.
Port the head! Hahaha
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Thanks wazzu70 & Warsteiner. I did know about turning the snout down and the required keyway, but not the bolt or spacer. Do you have any specs?
NO worries.....I'm glad to see more people are going for it. Here is the info for the bolt and spacer. I will give credit where credit is due.....If he's still on the list, the bolt goes to Lund8200's.
I developed the spacer myself.
New Crank spacer 20.35mm
old crank spacer 13.9mm
thread length 37mm(You have to cut the bolt)
Cheers,
~Ralph
Thanks Ralph. I did not pick up on the crank spacer and bolt during my readings. Is the spacer shown on the left of the Febi's photo with the bolt and hub?
(http://m42club.com/fotomat/febi/bottom_end.jpg)
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Yes. I had one custom machined that is stepped and fits perfectly.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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If you are not opposed to spending a little dough on the M42 Non-AC flywheel you can get that from Germany. I ordered mine through Steve at Blunttech.com. Ive go my engine ready to go on a stand for this weekend so reading your thread makes me wish it was Friday night already!
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I wish I had gone that route! Its all OEM and fits out of the box!
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I went the M20 route. Lightened it to 11 lbs if I recall and machined it to fit the M42 ring gear. Added a stock 325 228mm clutch kit and called it a day.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Sub frame is out. Now the question is do I stick with the 4.10lsd or drop in the 4.27lsd? I picked up the 4.27 a while back after we put in a luke box, sub and amp. That stuff is heavy, but sounds so good.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/SUBFRAME_zpsa7879c4e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/SUBFRAME_zpsa7879c4e.jpg.html)
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For an atmo 1.8L I would say 4.27 without a doubt.
For your stroker build I would keep 4.10 since you will have more torque down low and its a street car. The higher gearing will be nice.
Swapping a differential is very easy. If you don't like the 4.10 you can step down to 4.27 or up to 3.73.
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Picked up the M47 crank today.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/m47_zpse77cb19b.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/m47_zpse77cb19b.jpg.html)
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Sweet little itty bitty baby Jesus!
John
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Time for some updates. Most of the month of May has been spent waiting for parts. UPS brought these today :) I can get the pistons to the machine shop and they can get the block squared away.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/pistonandrods_zps08d7a506.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/pistonandrods_zps08d7a506.jpg.html)
The head is at Korman getting reworked. 8) I know Warsteiner says just get in there and start porting but I know I would screw it up. :-[ I decided to go with Schrick 256/256 cams maybe low on the performance/$ value scale but one of the build goals is to keep it very streetable so mild it is.
A question, the decision to go with the Schricks came after the pistons were ordered. Stock cams have a lift of 9.70mm, lift at TDC is .90mm intake and .65mm exhaust. The shricks have 10.4mm lift and lift at TDC is 1.2mm intake and 1.2mm exhaust (if I'm reading their specs correctly). Is there a way to calculate/measure if I need to have the valve reliefs increased in the piston tops before assembly or is the only way to do it by a test fitting? Wish I would have had my ducks in a row before I ordered the pistons. As always, your advice is appreciated.
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Contact TEP and see if the valve reliefs are deeper than stock. Usually on aftermarket pistons they are.
I also believe the Schricks work with a factory motor, so you should be good either way. There is no replacement for actually measuring the clearance with some putty though!
Parts look beautiful.
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wazzu70 is correct again! I didn't cut my reliefs in my pistons any deeper and my cams are about the same as the Schrick 256s' which are a direct replacement without modifications on a stock motor. So if all your math is correct then you should have no issues.
Glad you're getting the head ported. You won't be disappointed.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Got the head back from Korman :) I gotta say up front although it took way longer than I thought it should but Ray Korman was great. Couple of issues they ran into that I thought I'd pass along if anyone else goes with a Schrick cam. I went with a 256/256 schrick cam, their literature doesn't mandate changing lifters and springs but we experienced coil bind using oem springs. It was slight so maybe some heads would be okay but mine wasn't. Anyway ended up with schrick springs, lifters & cam as well as new OEM exhaust valves. Intake was gasket matched and some mild porting was done.
Took the crank into get the snout turned down and a new woodruff seat cut but having trouble finding anyone with a 5X6.5 cutter. What did you guys do?
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What is the maximum lift with those Schrick cams? One issue than I ran into with my build (11.4mm max intake, 11.15mm max exhaust) was the cams getting eaten up by the lifters since the high lift causes them to run up & over the edge of the bucket. You MUST run an oil with high ZDDP content (Mobil 1 15W-50 seems to be the best off-the-shelf one for a reasonable price, Castrol 10W-60 TWS is better but almost $20/L). My cams were SHREDDED after ~1000 miles of running some cheap Pennzoil 10W-40 mineral oil for break-in. If you are worried about seating the rings, you would probably be OK running dino oil for <50 miles to seat those, and then switch to synthetic.
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Thanks for the tip bmwman91. Sorry to hear of all your issues you've had with that motor. The Schricks are 10.4 and 10.4. Stock I believe is 9.70 for intake and exhaust.
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Thats good to know you had coil bind with those cams as I consider them fairly mild lift wise. I wouldn't have guessed there would be comflict....but thats why you check!
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Finally an update. As mentioned head is back from Korman. Valve cover is powder coated Air Force Blue cause that's where Bryce will be going (fingers crossed). He received letter's of assurance from West Point and Naval Academy. Air Force will let him know in January. The terribly sad thing after all this work is he can't take his car out until his junior year :) ... I mean :'(.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw-4_zpsc875b5b5.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw-4_zpsc875b5b5.jpg.html)
I ended up sending the crank to MM to cut the extra keyway. Jim turned it around very fast and it's now back at my local machine shop checking balance and assembly balance. The guys at the shop said it probably wasn't necessay but I figured there's too much time and money invested not to be 100% sure.
Finally go the rear subframe back in today. Here it is before it went in. Looks a lot better than when it came out that's for sure, but more importantly all new rubber bushings. Rear end is a 4.27 lsd out of a vert. I replaced the seals and o-rings. I know the rust on the back end is abhorent. Body work will be done once Bryce is in school. I don't htink he'd let me take it off the road again until he's gone.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw_zpsfa49e41e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw_zpsfa49e41e.jpg.html)
Remanned from BMW, salty but I've had issues with some other remanned units so we'll see how they do
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw-2_zpsb5d1d91e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw-2_zpsb5d1d91e.jpg.html)
And finally I rebuilt the calipers. It was obvious the right rear was not retracting as it should. Removed the rust using a storage tub, rebar, a battery charger and borax solution. That was really cool to watch and did a great job. They were so bad going in I really didn't think they were salvageable, but they turned out alright and pistons move freely now.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw-3_zps98abcff3.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw-3_zps98abcff3.jpg.html)
Once I get the crank back I'll get the head mounted with the old gasket to double check valve clearance. Check bearing clearances and if everything is okay we'll get her buttoned back up. For future readers Ray Korman told me the 84mm OEM head gaskets are good for a +1 overbore so that's what I'll be using. Thought that was good info.
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Great progress!
Hopefully your son gets into the school he wants!
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Exciting weekend ahead. I started getting the block prepped for assembly. This evening I chased all the bolt holes. You need 3 sizes to do the block. M10 X1.5 for the head bolts.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/block_zps30ee925d.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/block_zps30ee925d.jpg.html)
M10X1.5 for the mains and M6X1.0 for the oilpan holes.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/block-4_zps158bc610.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/block-4_zps158bc610.jpg.html)
The lower timing cover uses three sizes, M10X1.5, M8X1.25 and M6X1.0
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/block-2_zps2d72a97c.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/block-2_zps2d72a97c.jpg.html)
I still need to do the rear but I need to take it off the engine stand and I was getting lazy. I'll do that tomorrow then give it a good soapy wash and brush all oil passages. I'm going to mic the bearing clearances just to see how I do but I will take it to the machine shop on Monday to double check my measurments. I think it was in Wazzu70's build where he suggested .001 per inch of journal. Does that sound about right?
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.001" for 1" of diameter of journal is correct.
Here is a great thread: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59017
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As always, thanks wazzu. Robert (Peerless) spent some time on the phone with me when I was trying to decide what to do when I first had engine trouble. He's a first rate guy and very knowledgeable. That link will be a big help to me.
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Have you ever seen a thrust bearing like this? This is what came with the M47 crank. It is a genuine BMW part. Just seems kind off janky, but then I'm not an engineer. The side rails have tabs that clip into the bearing and they rails move. Any idea why it is designed like this and any reason not to use it?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/thrust_washer_for_E46_11211743457_zps960e53d2.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/thrust_washer_for_E46_11211743457_zps960e53d2.jpg.html)
*picture from alibaba.com
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Anyone ever seen an Amish connecting rod vice?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/rods_zpsea7ace44.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/rods_zpsea7ace44.jpg.html)
I didn't know there where upper and lower specific bearing halves. Fortunately I noticed they had different finishes and did some digging. #425 is top and it had a dull grey finish, #426 was bottom and was shinier for lack of a better turn. Again these bearings came with the M47 crank so no clue if it relates to M42 stuff.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/rods-2_zps674149d6.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/rods-2_zps674149d6.jpg.html)
I just thought this was cool.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/rods-3_zps3a6d0536.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/rods-3_zps3a6d0536.jpg.html)
I gave up trying to mic things myself. The old connecting bolts do not fit the new rods. The new ARP bolts are stretch bolts so I'm not sure how to proceed. I'll leave it to the machine shop tomorrow.
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I've got a question about updating the deflection wheel to a deflection rail. Using RealOEM to compare the 318is M42 to a Euro E36 M42 I believe I would need the following from the Euro E36 M42:
Lower Timing Chain Case 11141739699
Gasket 11141743032
Deflection Rail 11311739130
Filister Head ScrewsX2 07119919824
More gaskets 11141247429
Also listed as different but not sure if needed:
Trigger Contact 12141247258
Filister Head Screw 11421740488
Pulse Generator 12141247259
Filister Head Screw 11421740488
I might take a flier on it, but the biggest concern is the block number has a different part number associated with it. Anyone know if this is possible? My concern is that the block has changes that pair with the lower timing case in which case the lower timing case wouldn't fit on the old block. I've searched a lot and haven't found a definitive answer. Thanks.
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On the thrust bearing, that looks like a really cheap way to add a thrust surface to a bearing shell. I havent seen them like that though from the factory! My shells were one piece and did not look like that. If the diesel crank has the same main journal sizes, I would just use standard M42 petrol bearings.
On the front cover I dont know for sure on this. I know the later M42 block was different in that it had an oil restrictor in the return (I believe) from the head. Not sure why the E30 M42 did not have this. Other than very minor things, both E30 and E36 blocks should be the same. For the front cover, that was different on the later engines and so was the gasket. You need to get the later M42 version and not the M44 version to have a holder for the VR sensor. Use the same VR sensor, it is possible the later M42 used a hall sensor instead which will not talk to the ECU.
All this is from what I have read and remembered, I have no first hand experience unfortunately!
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Severe duty skid plate
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/skid_zps4e8c2395.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/skid_zps4e8c2395.jpg.html)
* edited because I can't spel sew gud
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Block is finally back together (all my projects end up taking longer then expected but this engine building is crazy). Upon initial assembly we found the JE Pistons were made incorrectly and were sticking way out of the block. A quick call to Steve at TEP and he had it sorted out. JE was quick to correct their mistake so a big thanks Steve and JE.
Bearing clearance was a little tight so the shop ground the crank slightly. I'll have to grab some photos of this place, C&P Machine in Fort Wayne, the cranks they have sitting around are incredible. Everything from dirt track racers to diesel ships to a 300hp 1930's era air compressors.
They also had to clearance the block for the new rods. The crank would turn freely but there was a very slight noise indicating rod/block contact so they clearanced that for me as well. Needless to say that added some unplanned cash to this build but I feel much better knowing things are right.
Is there a consensus on what to use when putting timing case back on? dry, shellac, anaerobic sealer? I'm thinking Indian Head on the timing case to block and the anaerobic sealer on the covers to the case.
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I just assembled mine dry (block to timing case), but I think the Indian Head (Shellac) is probably a great idea.
I had to take the upper timing cover off a while ago and used anaerobic sealant to re attach it since I didn't have a gasket. I didn't have any issues.
No problems going slow. Doing it right the first time saves headaches later on!!!
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For the timing case to the block, I have always used the dry paper gasket or the paper gasket with some of the Permatex non-curing aerosol gasket sealer (the sticky red stuff). I'd only use a spray type of sealer for that particular one since you definitely want a uniform, THIN coating. For the TC, you definitely don't want to plug up the small oil groove that feeds the chain tensioner / sprayer, or risk having RTV get into the main oil galley. And of course, thick sealer applications increase the chances of breaking the casting during installation. I have also used the same spray stuff for the thermostat housing gasket since I don't want the bleed groove getting clogged up.
For the TC covers, I'd either use the M44's coated metal gaskets, or skip them & use some Permatex Ultra Grey RTV. Thinly coat both mating surfaces, finger-tighten the bolts, let it cure for the recommended time and then fully tighten the bolts. Whichever sealant you use, just maker sure that it is rated for high temp use with oil & coolant and you'll be fine.
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Well I suppose the good news is when I heard the snap it wasn't the cam.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/camtray_zpsed1c6ef2.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/camtray_zpsed1c6ef2.jpg.html)
I was installing the cam per Wayne's instructions. I didn't notice that as the cam was being pulled down so was my Magilla Gorilla giant Crescent wrench head I was using to hold the sweet spot. Why didn't I use my small one? :-(
Anyone have a cam tray they want to get rid of or any suggestions? Leave it? JB Weld?
It's the exhaust side.
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http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=305216&highlight=M42
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I would probably just leave it actually. The tray isn't doing a whole lot in that area.
Why aren't you holding the cams by the square section in the back?
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Yep, you're right. After I got it turned to the "sweet spot" I should have held it at the back.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/full_zpse812f8b8.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/full_zpse812f8b8.jpg.html)
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Hey, you learn from making mistakes. I know a lot about working on engines from past goof ups!
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I guess this is why you check. My assumption is if you can see the piston through the clay there's not enough clearance. A quick word on clay, which probably everyone besides me already knows, get the stuff called plastisina. I did this twice because the first "modeling" clay I used was some kids stuff which had a bit of memory to it so it wouldn't hold the indentation well enough. Plastisina is the ticket.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/clearance_zpsc4edeee7.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/clearance_zpsc4edeee7.jpg.html)
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I didn't know you had to use a specific clay/putty. In the past I had used Play-Doh, but it was just to verify I had plenty of clearance. It was never in a situation where I thought clearance would be tight!
Do you have oversize valves or are the valve pockets too small (or both).
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No valves are not oversize. My understanding is Korman left the pockets stock on the exhaust side. Their thought was you need the material there for heat transfer and you can run into trouble if you pocket the exhaust side. Since I was so tight on exhaust I checked intake and had like 170 thousandths clearance! Now, the piston valve reliefs are bigger but so are the valves. When I started tearing things down I went to turn the crank back 90 degrees to get the pistons to all drop but stopped before doing so. I think I did the same thing on the exhaust side but didn't catch it and rotated the crank CCW 90 while still attached to the chain & cams. I don't recall for sure.
I'm going to retest it tomorrow, I am betting rotating the crank and cam backwards messed up the clearances.
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Regarding the cam trays, anyone familiar with this mod?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
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Yeah, the cam and crank need to move together to properly check the clearances. Makes it a PITA since you have to assemble things then disassemble things.
Also, was an old headgasket used between the head and block? That will change the clearances as well.
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Regarding the cam trays, anyone familiar with this mod?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
What would you like to know about this mod? I did it about 5-6 years ago.
Maybe you can start a new topic for this so we don't get off track with mabeer's build?
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Here's the latest -
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/clearance2_zpsee9b2156.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/clearance2_zpsee9b2156.jpg.html)
140 thousandths which is plenty. I'm going to run down the procedure as it should be (probably other and maybe better ways but this is how I did it) and then I'll highlight my mistake for anyone that stumbles across this thread in the future. If anything needs to be added or corrected please feel free to do so.
1) With head off find top dead center make a reference mark on your crank. Pistons in cylinders #1 & #4 will be up, #2 & #3 down.
2) Put your clay over valve relief you're checking. Make sure your piston top is clean. You want the clay to stick. Lightly oil your valve face so it doesn't stick. Valve spring of corresponding valve relief should have a light weight checker spring or lifter should be a solid lifter otherwise hydraulic lifter will be compressed and you'll get an incorrect reading.
3) Rotate crank CCW 90 degrees and your pistons will drop so all four are at their lowest point this will prevent any inadvertent valve interference when mounting the head.
4) Throw on your old head gasket and mount your head.
5) Set your cams at top dead center. Front lobes should be facing each other and pointed slightly up, flats in rear should be vertical and parallel on Schrick. Not sure about Cat-Cams and OEM is square as I recall.
6) Lock your cams in place using your preferred method.
7) Now you can safely turn your crank 90 degrees CW to your reference mark.
8) Install your timing chain, timing sprockets with arrows up, 15 rivets between arrows.
9) Turn your crank CW a few rotations
10) Remove your timing chain.
11) Rotate your crank CCW 90 degrees.
12) Remove your head.
13) Check your clay.
The first time I did this, when I thought I had clearance issues, I reversed steps 10 & 11. That's a no -no.
So now I wait. Why? Because upon closer inspection I found not only had I taken a chunk out of the cam tray but I also cracked it where one of the lifter buckets go. My BMW parts department couldn't find one in the States so it is coming from Germany. I've had parts from Germany in as little as a week up to as long as three. Since I'm waiting I decided to order the timing case from a later euro M42 that replaces the idler wheel with a guide rail. Not sure if it will with the older block but we'll find out and I'll post results.
I also found out that the Schrick buckets are identical to the VW buckets that are a popular swap for OEM.
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How much power are you expecting to get from this build?
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How much power are you expecting to get from this build?
At this point I just hope it runs :-) What's the general consensus for an M47 crank with mild head work? 160?
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Sorry about that, will do.
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Sorry about that, will do.
Hey, I don't mind, it all flows.
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Good to know about the Schrick buckets!
Also, great choice on the front timing cover without the idler. I wish I knew about this when I built my motor!
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mabeer.....No idea what kind of power you're gonna make. It all depends on your tuning and if you put all the right parts together to make your motor sing :) Your build looks somewhat similar to mine. I have an 86mm bore. I also have the 6mm valve stems and ported head. You're still going to run AFM? I would suggest getting bigger injectors and a good tune!! *From my own experience :o...The stock inj's are only 19.5#'s. (19.5x10.5=204.75cc's) Mine cleaned came in at 204cc. If we take the 21's (21x10.5=220.5cc's) That's a different story. Not saying they can't be, I just don't see a freshly cleaned set only putting out 204cc's vs 220cc's. Just my .02. All good. If you plan on staying with stockers please have them professionally cleaned and flowed and then you'll know where you're at. I'm running 24#'s in my car with about 256-260cc's. Better safe than sorry. I also have stock FPR.
With the right tune you should see more than 160hp at the crank. I'm still tuning mine and will get a dyno tune soon. bmwman91 and I are going to have a dyno sheet dual when we both give our cars the final tune. Mabeer, you can jump in on that one too. I just have one slight edge....ok, maybe two or three ::) but we shall see :)
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Sorry about that, will do.
Hey, I don't mind, it all flows.
Thanks, I've been considering having a motor built, it would be for street/canyon/track use. I am very new to this realm but have a good general understanding as well as been slowly educating myself through threads like this.
In the video it mentioned the M60 trays allow use of a lighter valvetrain and results in a higher revving engine. How does it affect the torque/hp curves? Personally I would want to gain more bottom end torque while keeping as much of the top end liveliness as possible. I like the characteristics of the M42 and wouldn't want to change it much other than making it more powerful. Ideally I'd like to make a 2.0L and achieve 200HP.
I like your thinking in building it bottom up, its more future proof. You can always add to it.
Good luck with your build, looking forward to the outcome!
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mabeer.....No idea what kind of power you're gonna make. It all depends on your tuning and if you put all the right parts together to make your motor sing :) Your build looks somewhat similar to mine. I have an 86mm bore. I also have the 6mm valve stems and ported head. You're still going to run AFM? I would suggest getting bigger injectors and a good tune!! *From my own experience :o...The stock inj's are only 19.5#'s. (19.5x10.5=204.75cc's) Mine cleaned came in at 204cc. If we take the 21's (21x10.5=220.5cc's) That's a different story. Not saying they can't be, I just don't see a freshly cleaned set only putting out 204cc's vs 220cc's. Just my .02. All good. If you plan on staying with stockers please have them professionally cleaned and flowed and then you'll know where you're at. I'm running 24#'s in my car with about 256-260cc's. Better safe than sorry. I also have stock FPR.
With the right tune you should see more than 160hp at the crank. I'm still tuning mine and will get a dyno tune soon. bmwman91 and I are going to have a dyno sheet dual when we both give our cars the final tune. Mabeer, you can jump in on that one too. I just have one slight edge....ok, maybe two or three ::) but we shall see :)
Cheers,
~Ralph
I've got the stock AFM cleaned and reconditioned by Gregs///M. I'm not sure if he's here but he is on R3V. Injectors were serviced and flow tested by Linder Tech in Indianapolis.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/injectors_zpsb1461b72.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/injectors_zpsb1461b72.jpg.html)
I'm not sure how the 50 MLS converts, any idea? At any rate I agree they will be too small. My guestimates of 165 crank hp show 24lb/hr to be about right. Of course I'm guessing at two major variables - HP & brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) so like I said - guestimate.
As for a tune. Barry @ midnight tuning suggested an Ostrich 2.0 and his software with a base xdf file then I can play with fuel & spark. I was hoping there would be some option for data logging or remote access but apparently not and I'll have to learn a thing or two. I don't have anything yet, but I suppose I better make a decision soon, so if any one has some input I'd love to hear it. Korman did burn a chip for the Schrick cam but with the stroker I don't think it will be any better than stock. With as many people that have done this type of build I naively thought there might be something available "off the shelf".
As for the Dyno challenge, I suppose if you need someone to come in a distant third I'm up for it. :) I have no idea where to go around here to prove my last place finish.
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If you guys need a last place finish, I'm your guy!!
I think the Ostrich and the tune from Barry would be the most painless way to go. Tweaking the fuel and spark maps is pretty easy, people get frustrated dialinig in the starting parameters, acceleration enrichment, idle ect. on a standalone.
If you want to go standalone there are a few "cost consious" options. There is Megasquirt and VEMS. I have the starting parameters figured out for VEMS and I have been helping some guys on R3v dial in their MS setups.
If you go MS, get a fully built and tested unit to eliminate many headaches. Most problems I help people resolve from MS are hardware related because there was a mistake putting the unit together. IMO building it yourself is a silly way to try and save money. Start with something you know works!
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If you guys need a last place finish, I'm your guy!!
I think the Ostrich and the tune from Barry would be the most painless way to go.
By a "tune from Barry" you mean his xdf file as a starting point? Because he said to do an actual tune he would need car in hand.
If you had to do it over again would you go MS or are you glad you still went with VEMS?
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If Barry just sets you up with an xdf, make sure you have a local tuner who wants to use the program. If you dont have a tuner who wants to use the software, this path won't do you a ton of good.
Personally I prefer VEMS over MS. I like the hardware and software better, but I know it better so its more comfortable for me. MS and TunerStudio work just fine. The key if you aren't planning on tuning it yourself is finding someone who you want to tune the car and use a system they prefer that matches your budget. Forcing a tuner to use hardware/software they aren't familiar with/wanting to learn rarely has good results :)
If you go MS or VEMS people here can get you going with a base configuration.
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If you want to get into tuning your car then go for it. If you don't have the time or patience or have no idea what you're doing, then I agree with Nick and find a reputable tuner in your area and find out what they prefer to use. There is no harm in asking if they would do a different kind but see how receptive they are to the idea.
MS is ok I suppose. I just passed NJ state inspection with flying colors. HC was 40 and 220ppm allowed. CO was 0 and 1.2 allowed. Goes to show if you have a half way decent tune and you have stellar cats then there is no reason not to pass emissions.
Mabeer, I would ask Linder what the flow was on your inj's. It's just a phone call to get the details and then you know where you stand.
I never met Barrie but from all the posts that I've seen and a few PM's back and forth with him he is a great guy that is willing to help anyone. If you want to play then get the tune from him. He may even be able to help you even further without having the car. You'll have to send files back and forth for him to look at.
So I guess we are having a contest to see who finishes last.....hahaha I need to fine tune mine. It runs well but the MAP and the ITB's and cams are throwing me off. My cruise is way up in the map at 90+kPa. So I need to figure out the correct scaling in kPa vs RPM for the timing and AFR maps. I'd rather run MAP than A-N only because of temps but I have to see if I can do a blend. I've only had it up to 5K in 5th and it pulls really well. I have the rev limiter set low now at 7K but will probably set it at 7.5K
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Well Ralph to answer your questions regarding tuning. The car will have been off the road for a year. My priority right now is to get it on the road, make sure its not going to burn things up running too lean and let Bryce have fun until he's off to school. That's assuming I can't find a local tuner. After he's gone I'll definitely give it a go. Do I know what I'm doing? I haven't a clue. I'm so stupid I don't even know what questions to ask, but I look forward to learning :) But yeah, right now I don't have the time or any idea whats what.
In my dreams Barry sees this thread and says, Mike no worries get the emulator and my xdf, do this that and the other thing, pay me a consulting fee, send me the files, I'll tweek them and make sure you're cool. I don't care about peak numbers at this point just safety margins and decent drive-ability. The chip from Korman has the head covered not sure if the system will adjust for the stroke.
Linder flows like I thought 50 MILS (or cc's) in 15 seconds so 50 X4 = 200cc/min.
Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg.html)
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
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Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg.html)
That sure looks better than dried flowers or those stupid woven wicker balls. :)
You should make a matching side table/wine rack. http://www.chromjuwelen.com/en/network/320-hooniversecom/150455-project-et-02-bmw-engine-block-table.html
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Too cold to work in the garage today so what could be better than a transmission in your office?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/tranny_zps5f26ac0e.jpg.html)
That sure looks better than dried flowers or those stupid woven wicker balls. :)
You should make a matching side table/wine rack. http://www.chromjuwelen.com/en/network/320-hooniversecom/150455-project-et-02-bmw-engine-block-table.html
So true. I have a nice M50b25 piston with a bit of conrod attached I retrieved from a failed race motor on my desk!
If you enjoy tinkering, tuning is fun. I have learned a lot through reading and doing. There is no replacement for actually doing versus reading. Down the road it would probably be a good path if you want to learn. You can always get help from a few here and other forums.
That said, you could do some fiddling to a Barrie base tune after your son does not need the car daily. I think he should be able to get you a good conservative tune to get you rolling pretty easy. This would by far be the best way to get the car running ASAP.
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Ok.... :) So your inj's came out about the same as mine which makes my point even more valid. I'm guessing after 2 definitive tests they are actually 19.5# inj's.
Mike....It's always better to have a tune for a new motor when you've made all these changes....and you've made extensive changes. It's not the same motor. You will most definitely need 24# inj's.
If you stay with the AFM/ECU then have Barrie send you a decent tune to make you safe especially with those inj's. If you have a STOCK chip you could cruise around a little bit but I would not go full throttle on that motor without a tune! Then you can decide if you want to stay with the stock ECU and AFM or bump up to some real power with MAP or A-N and bigger inj's on a standalone. Like Nick said....there are people that can get you up and running and then you have to learn or make friends with someone that has experience with your set up in your area. I'm on a learning curve too. The maps for AFM/TB are way different than MAP/ITB's. But it is doable!! Tuner Studio has an auto-tune function for the VE table and you can target your AFR's in MSII. I'm sure Nick's VEMS does the same thing.
You have a support group!! LOL If you really want to stay simple then work with Barrie on getting a really good tune. He's the man to help you. I would send him a direct PM and ask him if he can help you do what your thinking and not worry about it anymore 8)
Cheers,
~Ralph
Happy Turkey Day everyone!!
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Well I suppose the good news is when I heard the snap it wasn't the cam.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/camtray_zpsed1c6ef2.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/camtray_zpsed1c6ef2.jpg.html)
I was installing the cam per Wayne's instructions. I didn't notice that as the cam was being pulled down so was my Magilla Gorilla giant Crescent wrench head I was using to hold the sweet spot. Why didn't I use my small one? :-(
Anyone have a cam tray they want to get rid of or any suggestions? Leave it? JB Weld?
It's the exhaust side.
Love the details of you're build, also wanted to comment that I think it's awesome that you and you're son are doing this together. As much as I want my 3 year old to stay 3, I can't wait to build cars engines with him.
Anyways, I ran across a local ad here in SoCal and noticed the guy had M42 cam trays for sale. I can reach out to him for you and ship them out to you if you still want to replace it.
I'm sure you can leave it as is, but I'm pretty anal and need everything in tact :P plus you have such pretty pistons hahaha.
Let me know! Here's the ad;
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/4217163451.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/4217163451.html)
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!
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Jolle21-thanks for the kind words and the heads up on the trays. You're right I couldn't leave it and already have one coming from Germany. I know what you mean about wanting them to stay 3. I was the same way but I tell you even though it goes way too fast every stage is great. It just keeps getting better.
Ralph-do you have the part number on those injectors? With injectors that size do I have to worry about washing down the cylinder walls?
I'll touch base with Barry again. Ultimately I'd really like to get into the tuning side of it.
Hey Nick, Does Vems have a similar auto function?
Thanks again for everyones help. My buddy who has a shop close by says I'm fearless diving into stuff I know nothing about. I tell him only because of you guys... My life raft :)
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These are the Ford Motorsport ones.
0 280 150 947. You will absolutely need a tune for these inj's to make them work.
You can't use these as just a replacement for the stock inj's. These probably won't run on a stock time or even an aftermarket chip.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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These are the Ford Motorsport ones.
0 280 150 947. You will absolutely need a tune for these inj's to make them work.
You can't use these as just a replacement for the stock inj's. These probably won't run on a stock time or even an aftermarket chip.
Cheers,
~Ralph
Okay, let me see if I've got this. I may be able to get by with stock injectors and stock chip if we take it easy, better to get a tune from Barry for added protection, best to step up to the plate size injectors appropriately w/ custom tune. Is that about right?
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My best suggestion would be to get the new inj's, then contact Barrie and get a tune of sorts going with him and then go drive the car!
Sell your fresh stockers on this list because we all know someone is in need of them.....
If you wanted to start the car and drive it around lightly you could get away with a stock chip because its all part throttle driving and the timing is tame. You have to have like a dozen eggs between your foot and the pedal!
The 24#'s will not work with anything but some sort of a custom tune either stock ECU or standalone. There will just be too much fuel otherwise.
And!!!.....If you haven't drained your gas tank yet, now is a great time to do that before you start the car. Old gas will just not cut it.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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The VEMS system has an autotune function for fuel mapping too. Actually if any system did not offer that feature I would be scared. Its very simple to accomplish with todays hardware capabilities.
I actually was looking over someones MS3 tune yesterday which used an updated version of TunerStudio. The updated version of the software was much better than the version I had used previously. Just an FYI.
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I've got a question about updating the deflection wheel to a deflection rail. Using RealOEM to compare the 318is M42 to a Euro E36 M42 I believe I would need the following from the Euro E36 M42:
Lower Timing Chain Case 11141739699
Gasket 11141743032
Deflection Rail 11311739130
Filister Head ScrewsX2 07119919824
More gaskets 11141247429
Also listed as different but not sure if needed:
Trigger Contact 12141247258
Filister Head Screw 11421740488
Pulse Generator 12141247259
Filister Head Screw 11421740488
I might take a flier on it, but the biggest concern is the block number has a different part number associated with it. Anyone know if this is possible? My concern is that the block has changes that pair with the lower timing case in which case the lower timing case wouldn't fit on the old block. I've searched a lot and haven't found a definitive answer. Thanks.
I went ahead and did this. The primary reason to do this is to remove the deflection wheel, which has been reported by some to be a failure point, and replace it with a guide rail. If you're interested here is what you'll need:
Lower Timing Chain Case 11141739699
Gasket, case to block 11141743032 metal gasket much improved
Deflection Rail 11311739130 replaces old style deflection wheel some of you have had trouble with
Filister Head ScrewsX1 07119919824 You just need one of these as you can use the one from the deflection wheel. BMW no longer carries
them but it's a M6X35
Bottom deflection rail 11311734694 Old syle doesn't fit the new case. Also need new, shorter bolts M6X25
Filister head screws X2 07119919926 M6X25 for bottom deflection rail
Washers X2 07119931044
Gasket set, TC cover 11141247633 Much improved metal gaskets. 2 gaskets included replace the 5 paper gaskets.
Pretty straight forward swap.
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I've got a question for you guys. I had all kinds of trouble with the new cam tray getting the caps to center properly so the cam would rotate freely. There's plenty of clearance. What I did with the help of the machine shop was remove the lifters, torque the cams down lightly while tapping the cam on the side with a brass drift. Scared the crap out of me but they say sometimes they have to beat on the cams with a 4 lb sledge in order to get them to seat properly (this is on big industrialdiesel engines). So we just played around and tapped and low and behold it rotated smoothly.
Fast forward to today, I installed the cams in the head but with spring pressure on first lobe I didn't feel comfortable using the brass drift method (plus not enough hands). Someone told me the spring pressure will help seat properly and take the place of the drift. My concern is cap 2 is the only one torqued down with any spring presure. 1, 3, 4 & 5 were unloaded as per Wayne's Pelican article.
Anything I can do? Now that they're mounted I can't tell if they rotate freely because of the springs. Am I being overly paranoid?
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What sort of lubricant did you put in the cam journals before assembly? If you make sure to have a uniform coating of assembly lube on there, it should ensure that the cam is centered between the cap & tray with a mil or two of clearance on each side.
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What sort of lubricant did you put in the cam journals before assembly? If you make sure to have a uniform coating of assembly lube on there, it should ensure that the cam is centered between the cap & tray with a mil or two of clearance on each side.
I used Federal Mogul Sealed Power Assembly Lube (it's what my local machine shop uses.)
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Aaah, well you should be good in that regard then. I'd say to get the caps on and see if the thing rotates (I think it should).
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You should be fine as long as the caps and trays are from the same set and in the correct order.
I think it was you who ordered a new tray. In this case it may need to be libe honed with the caps to make a matching set.
Someone on bimmerforums used the wrong caps for his trays which led to larger clearance than usual. He had low oil pressure because of it.
Might be worth looking into. Its a PITA to remove them again, but better safe than sorry!!
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Caps are the ones that came with trays they just took some fussing to get smooth rotation whereas the old was always just as smooth as butter. We eventually got the new smooth but like I said it was with a lot of messing around. Now with buckets in and consequent spring pressure I'm unable to gauge resistance. Don't think I can line hone because clearance is at upper end as it is. Machine shop suggested backing torque off to a couple of foot pounds and rotate through a couple cycles using spring pressure to replace the brass drift we used. Still not sure if it will make a difference and still won't be able to tell.
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Picked up a used cam tray from totheredline over at r3v. Dropped it in and smooth as butter. Now if someone could just tell me where I put the *&^%$# oil pan bolts I can get this buttoned back up :)
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Okay, I'm probably just being paranoid but I thought I would ask. On the oil filter housing, are the highlighted check valves able to be manually moved? Do I need to check them or R&R them somehow? Are they prone to failure?
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/ee58ebc5-88d1-4241-843d-516f161ecc7a_zps02233c91.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/ee58ebc5-88d1-4241-843d-516f161ecc7a_zps02233c91.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/cff0c293-9d5d-4f4e-ae46-679414d1e04b_zpse8a213db.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/cff0c293-9d5d-4f4e-ae46-679414d1e04b_zpse8a213db.jpg.html)
Thanks
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There is one bypass valve and two check valves. Check valves prevent oil flowing out of the block and filter housing to the sump. Bypass valve opens when filter differential pressure reaches limit set by BMW. Such situation can happen during very cold weather engine start when oil viscosity is high. You should be able to open them all if you will get access. The one which goes to the block as I remember is possible to remove from filter housing.
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Should I be able to depress the center button on the check valves or do they push out (away from the block ).
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I do not remember which but one of them you should be able to press and one to pull.
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romkasponka - thanks, you're exactly right. The check valves highlighted by the blue arrows pull out, and quite easily I might add. Of course I didn't think to pull before I pushed and I boogered them. The bypass valve (the one not highlighted) pushes in.
So, add the price of a new filter housing to the cost of my education. I'm tired of breaking perfectly good parts (cam tray and now filter housing) kind of feels like child abuse. :'(
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No such thing as a perfect parent. :)
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Don't I know it
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Its all part of the learning process!
People ask how I learned to work on engines. I tell them....by screwing a lot of things up and learning from it!!
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Do you suggest dropping the front sub-frame and installing the engine from the bottom or lifting it in from the top? Tranny attached or attach after engine in?
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If you have access to a lift then going in from the bottom is easy. If not the M42 is short and easy to drop in from the top. I usually do it with the trans attached as its easier to mate the two out of the car and the extra weight on the back of the engine helps it drop in easier due to the natural hanging angle.
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I also recommend leaving the tranny attached. It is pretty easy with a cherry picker and cheap Harbor Freight load leveler. It is highly recommended to NOT have the radiator in there when you do it since it is likely to get banged up. The extra 1.5" of clearance up front is also nice when shoe-horning the M42+tranny in!
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How's this for weird? Throughout this rebuild, which started about a year ago now, I'd come to a juncture where I would ask myself should I do this or should I do that. Every time I would pose the question I would answer to myself, "Well you better do it right because you're not going to be around to do it again." I don't know why I thought it but it was starting to creep me out. I even joked with Bryce about it. Well, 4 weeks ago they found a malignant mass in my esophagus. Ten days ago after all their test were done they labeled it stage 4 metastatic esophageal cancer. It has spread to my lung, liver, lymph nodes, vocal cords and spine. Amazing because besides difficulty swallowing (no jokes about Blunt) I feel better than I have in ten years. I'm down 39 pounds and can unequivocally say that, at least at this point, fat is much worse than cancer :). Chemo starts tomorrow. It's not curable but the hope is to slow it down and buy some time. Not knowing how the chemo is going to affect me I've been burning the candle at both ends trying to get projects done around the house and a seasons worth of tax returns done in just a few weeks. Right now I just feel like I hit a wall so I'm going to take it easy tonight and hang out with the kids and Mrs. mabeer and do nothing.
I did get the engine back together just have to mate up the tranny and drop her in. Also have to put the interior back together, double check all suspension torque specs, put on front brakes, put on half shafts. You know, now that I am constructing a punch list it really doesn't seem so bad. I think it will be good to have something to focus on. Doc says I'll be pretty sapped so we'll see how that goes.
On a positive note Bryce did get accepted to the Air Force Academy. (sorry if I already posted that news). He's so excited and I couldn't be more proud. Just gotta get this bad boy back on the road.
Thanks for all the help and advice on this build. I couldn't have done it without you guys.
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Wow. Who knew that those words we tend to mutter to ourselves when working could be premonitions of such news. I'm so sorry to hear it. It's funny how you can know someone in some capacity through just some pictures and accompanying captions. I can say that just seeing the way you work on your little M42 car has been a pleasure. I haven't had any particular wisdom to add to your build, but I've loved following it. I think we all wish you the best, and hope we can see you finish up the project, but obviously your priorities are different now. Congratulations on your son's acceptance into the Air Force. Sounds like, he's well on his way to becoming the man he wants to be. Thanks for sharing that small part of your life that you spend in the garage with us! Hopefully the car can be a welcome distraction from everything, when you just need to keep your hands and mind busy. When you just need to be a man in the garage with his work, and nothing else. Best of luck with your treatments. Hopefully it results in as much time with your family, as possible. We are all rooting for you!
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I have to say, thats not the update I was hoping for! That has to be one of the worst updates ever! Im really sorry to hear about your cancer :(
I guess in good news you and your son got to spend time together on a fun project. You also got to see him get accepted to the Air Force Academey. Thats a great achievement!
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not easy to reply after such a news. by experience I can only tell you to hold on to your passions/hobbies, don't give them up even if you feel bad at times that will help you to go through this.
we stand by you.
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I'm about to embark on a very similar rebuild to yours - and you thought you knew nothing??? My ignorance could fill an ocean... :-\
Really saddened to hear about the cancer you face but face it like every obstacle you've faced in your build and all be will be roses...
Looking forward to a positive update..
All the best with the chemo....
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Very sorry to hear about the cancer. Nasty crapy stuff that it is!
Lost my mother to that stuff, that's probably why I look after her e30 so much. The only car in my 3 car garage! It just reminds me of her!
Congratulations to your son being accepted into the Air Force!
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Well even though I had the transmission mounted and everything hanging on the hoist ready to go in I awoke one morning thinking about all of you who lobbied for a lightened flywheel to help wake things up. So I acquiesced and Rob hooked me up with a UUC Flywheel kit. Here's the skinny in pounds:
Stock UUC
Fly Wheel 26.6 8.2
Pressure Plate 8.4 13.0
Clutch 1.4 3.8
Total 36.4 25.0
Savings of 11.4 pounds. Not as great as I was hoping for but we'll see how she goes. In a couple of weeks I should have either a slightly used UUC kit for sale or a mounted but never used stock kit for sale depending on if we like the UUC kit or not.
One thing I discovered through this is that here is some bad data in some of the parts systems. The stock Sachs clutch kit came with the wrong size pilot bearing. It had a 15mm ID instead of the twelve the 240 needs. Fortunately I had ordered another somewhere along the line (Pelican I think but I don't recall for sure). Dog gone it! 15mm ID too. Ran up to Advanced Auto to get the ship righted, came home, crap should have checked... 15mm! Agggggh! Returned the bearing to AA and they assured me it was the right one. They were unable to look up a bearing by size so off to NAPA and they had the right one. When I went to install the clutch, wouldn't you know it, the clutch installation tools (one I ordered and one came with the stock kit) were, of course, all the wrong size.
The moral of the story kids is don't assume just because you ordered the right part that you got the right part. I wonder how many input shafts out there are flopping around in a sloppy pilot bearing.
Alright more later. Gotta grab another cup of coffee and get back in the garage. Goal is to get that bad boy dropped back in today. Turn the key tomorrow? Light at the end of the tunnel :)
**edited to add 240 input shaft changed from 12mm to 15mm 9/90 production.
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Well the UUC kit doesn't fit. The ears on the pressure plate contact the bellhousing. Everything else looked good but there is noway that is going to work. Too bad, I was looking forward to it. Twin mass is back on.
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One of the easiest in my opinion and the cheapest is buying a 325 M20 FW...having it cut down to 11 or 12lbs, and putting the M42 ring gear on.....installing the stock 325 clutch set up and away you go! I think it saves 17lbs.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Wish I knew you were going the UUC route, I coukd have saved you some trouble.
I got a single mass flywheel and clutch kit for the E36 only to find it did not fit in the 240 bellhousing! Swapped to a ZF from an E36, custom driveshaft, custom shifter arm, ect. Was a real pain!
To top it off I had a lifhtened M20 flywheel that worked just fine. WishI would have just hadit modifiedto fit the M50/M42 ring gear. Much easier!!!! Then I later found out the newer M20 starters fit the M42 without modification so all I had to do was get a new starter.
Live and learn I suppose!
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Can anyone confirm whether or not an e30 m42 has a starter support bracket? It is pictured on real oem but not listed which leads me to believe it wan't installed on our car, but I vaguely remember taking one off 15 months ago. I wasted 3 hours looking for it this morning to no avail. Thanks for your help. Getting close.
Mike
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Mine didn't have one
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Thanks Nick.
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It's alive! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Thanks everyone!!!!!
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Congrats!! Must feel great!
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That's great news, how does she feel with the new engine?
What engine management did you use?
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Right now she's still on jack stands. Need to put on the driveshaft and exhaust and throw the interior bits back together. I;ll post some video and driving details later.
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After nearly 14 months she's back where she is meant to be, in the high school parking lot. Got her off the jack stands last night and took her for a maiden voyage. I've got to give the brakes another bleed, but other than that I'd say this project was a 100% success.
Hits: We haven't gotten on it yet but even at partial throttle it pulls harder than full throttle did before, much harder. 8) She was tired at 230,000 miles. I don't know what kind of power it was making before the rebuild. Based on a top gear episode where they dyno'd some aging, neglected super cars I'd guess well under 100hp for sure.
Put on ST lowering springs off ebay and Bilsteins. What a difference! Not slammed but just right IMO. The lowness is a little shocking but I'm comparing it to what I became use to which was sitting a foot in the air on jack stands.
The UUC SSK with DSSR is really nice. I didn't think I would like it as much as I do, but it is fantastic. Rob and his team were a pleasure to deal with. For future surfers, the UUC clutch kit is a no go on an E30 M42, unless as Nick said, you're willing to do some major driveline customization.
The Luke Box, popular over @ R3V, is killer. We installed before but I forgot how great the sound system sounds. Not boomy craptastic but just really nice.
We drove till dark last night and I forgot how good the Cibie CSR's are. By far better then any other vehicle I've been in, including anything with HID's. I don't think they are available anymore but if you ever come across them grab them. They are gold.
No oil or coolant leaks :)
The 4.27 diff seems nice. We haven't had it on the freeway yet so the jury is still out, but this coupled with the increase in torque makes the car a lot of fun.
Power steering delete. Kind of a pain till you get rolling but nice other wise and a major leak source eliminated.
Miss: In a moment of boredom many months ago we plastidipped the Ronal LS's in white. :-\ As they sat waiting to go on we came to the decision that it would look like Johnny D'bag's car like that. Nevertheless, I threw them on just to get it on the road and well, I guess I may be a D'bag cause I think they look pretty good. White plastidip on wheels blows because they show dirt like crazy and are impossible to clean so Bryce will probably be peeling dip this weekend.
Still to do: Need a tune but seems to run well on the chip Korman burned for the cams. I know "seems" is not a good standard to use. Just need to decide what route I want to go.
Need to install the skid plate as I could see that getting some use.
Transmission is weeping at the case joint (whatever it's called). If I get that sorted could it be I have a leak free M42? That would be something.
Blackstone Labs is local so I plan on getting engine oil analysis done. I've never done that before so should be interesting.
Body work or probably a better way to go a clean shell swap.
Many thanks to all of you for your help and advice. Warsteiner, Wazzu70 and Kelflaman especially. I owe you guys dinner at the very least and although we'll probably never meet, I feel it's important to point out that I feel like I gained some friends though this process, a sincere thank you. Ray Korman @ Autoworks for the great bench racing talks, wise advice and awesome head work. C&P Machine here in Fort Wayne for the block work, assembly help, and the patience they showed dealing with my endless idiotic questions. Metric Mechanic for the crank keyway. Scott @ Jim's Auto in Grabill for the encouragement and loan out of numerous tools to get the job done. Steve at Top End Performance for the rods and pistons. (Okay, cue music and get him off the stage) :)
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This has definitely NOT been just "Another M42 engine build". ;)
And a hearty "Thank You" for documenting and sharing the build with us. I have a feeling this is going to be the blueprint for many future engine builders! :)
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Glad to hear its driving! Also, more importantly...you love it and feel the build was a success! Thats really the only thing that counts!!
I need pictures of the car! BTW, I have white wheels :) hahaha
We also need a dyno chart!
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congratulations! for the work, for all the detailed information you made avalaible to us, for your achievement and so on...
keep us updated!
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Filthy dirty but here you go.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw_zpsc6b19fc8.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw_zpsc6b19fc8.jpg.html)
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Are the wheels BBS RZ378? Funny, I was thinking those would be my next set. I think standard BBS silver would look better though.
Great minds think alike I guess!
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Ronal LS's
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Great news, glad to see that it has been a success. These little old cars really are a blast, and a little TLC (or in this case, a LOT) really makes them something special.
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Got the HIK Fabrication Severe Duty Skid Plate mounted. It really stiffened up the front end.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw_zps4f19e617.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw_zps4f19e617.jpg.html)
Repaired the speed sensor connector.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw-2_zps7be5e204.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw-2_zps7be5e204.jpg.html)
Condor shift knob
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/bmw-3_zpsbc13d81a.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/bmw-3_zpsbc13d81a.jpg.html)
Also replaced the resistor pack so 4 fan speeds are back on the menu.
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Just thought I'd jump on for an update. I had a 4.27 diff I was using which was actually nice. Nice pull in 1st and 2nd, and now that I've switched back to a 4.10 I'd say a noticeable difference in grunt off the line just a little buzzy on the highway. The only problem was the backlash felt a little excessive. Dan, from diffsonline.com put together a 4.10 LSD REM polished with some custom ramp angles and it is sweet! Dan's customer service was great. Maybe someday I'll send the 4.27 in to be rebuilt (unless someone else wants it, odds are its going to just sit around).
We've got a couple thousand miles on the rebuild. The car is an absolute blast to drive now. I'd say better than new for sure, at least as best I can remember. That was after all almost 24 years ago that we bought it. I'm on the fence about the power steering delete. Some days I like it, others not so much. We've had the coolest summer on record which has not fueled my motivation to track down why the A/C no workey. At least now it's just little things to work on. So with that I think I'll close down my posts on this thread and begin to look for my next project. Thanks for everyone's help and encouragement.
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You have to close out a thread like this with a dyno chart! Come on man :)
Glad to hear you guys are really enjoying the car! Provides me some motivation to finish mine.
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Nick,
True. I'll work on that.
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You have to close out a thread like this with a dyno chart! Come on man :)
Ran it up to JakeB's and his dyno. HP came in at 150.95 and Torque 139.46 at the wheels. Car is running great and is a great driver. . . but that turbo is so enticing. Here's a comparison to a stock M42:
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/stroker%20vs%20stock_zpstq2gznh3.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/stroker%20vs%20stock_zpstq2gznh3.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q767/mabeer/M42%20Stroker%20last%20run%20report_zps75tpgr9g.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/mabeer/media/M42%20Stroker%20last%20run%20report_zps75tpgr9g.jpg.html)
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That looks like a great improvement. Glad to hear you are still enjoying it!
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bumping this thread for some help on this car. The car is now located in Colorado at the Air Force Academy. She seems to be clicking more-so than normal, not sure if it is lifters or possibly an oil starvation issue? any advice for Bryce as we attempt to fix this car? Maybe increase oil viscosity or possible oil pump issues?
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Does it only click when it's cold...1st min or so of run time and then go away? The tensioner normally gives you a diesel type sound when it's tired.