Dead, no start. Timing chain feels tight

[thunder39]

So, the car died while backing out of the drive way. puzzled. stopped, turned the car over and no turn over.
I assumed the timing chain was broken and became very flustered. Today I set aside time to check out the motor and from inside the oil cap the timing chain looks fine...hm?

I will pull the valve cover and make sure but, I believe its intact. If the timing chain is not the culprit then what on earth could be making the car not turn over???

What should the next step be. I was thinking distributor? grounds? ecu? Ill provide more evidence and symptoms after I get the car out tomorrow.

thanks in advance,

marcus

[3bvert]

if the chain is in question, you dont want to spin the motor over
valve piston interference :eek:

[romeomike]

Startup theory and troubleshooting

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5462

[thunder39]

if the chain is in question, you dont want to spin the motor over
valve piston interference :eek:

lol I know! but, at the time I wasnt sure why it died. No noise, no clunk.

However, when i tried to restart I got nothing (no turning over) just sounded like the starter was trying to turn. So I feared the worst however, the chain feels tight

[thunder39]

ok. the engine turns. valves are ok, lobes are ok. But will not turn over. Fire to all plugs and plug wires at both block and coil packs however, no turning over. Is the crank broken? or could a bad crank sensor be stopping the crank from turning?

Im afraid the crank is broken. Anyone have a similar experience.

Also found gobs of vaccum leaks to fix however, i dont think they are apart of this problem

[DesktopDave]

Your crank cannot be broken.  The starter turns the rear of the crank, the timing chain is off the front.  So if you have a broken crank the cams won't turn.  Look for the cheap & easy stuff to fix before you conclude that the engine is toast.

Anyway, I'm not sure I'm totally clear on this.  The engine will spin (I call that turning over) but not fire up (I call that starting), right?  Like the starter is spinning the engine properly, just no start right?

If I'm right, and it's an E30, check & clean the crank position sensor, main & pump relays and maybe the fusible link in the trunk.

Fix the vac leaks, they will stop the car from running...and loose/corroded/broken wiring or plugs.  If you have a US spec car, do you get a Check Engine light?  Do you know how to do the stomp test to get the OBD codes?

If it's an early e36 ('93-'96), check the aboove problem areas and also the ECU compartment for water or a plugged drain.  Especially if it rained recently, or did you have a really good high-pressure car wash?

BTW, welcome to the board...even if you're here out of desperation!  We'll get you running.  Please post your car's year type & model.  FYI, I have a '91 e30 318i sedan.  It makes a big difference to figuring out the problem.  Use the search too...every problem you're likely to have with this car is discussed on this board...and many more besides!

[thunder39]

Your crank cannot be broken.  The starter turns the rear of the crank, the timing chain is off the front.  So if you have a broken crank the cams won't turn.  Look for the cheap & easy stuff to fix before you conclude that the engine is toast.

Anyway, I'm not sure I'm totally clear on this.  The engine will spin (I call that turning over) but not fire up (I call that starting), right?  Like the starter is spinning the engine properly, just no start right?

If I'm right, and it's an E30, check & clean the crank position sensor, main & pump relays and maybe the fusible link in the trunk.

Fix the vac leaks, they will stop the car from running...and loose/corroded/broken wiring or plugs.  If you have a US spec car, do you get a Check Engine light?  Do you know how to do the stomp test to get the OBD codes?

If it's an early e36 ('93-'96), check the aboove problem areas and also the ECU compartment for water or a plugged drain.  Especially if it rained recently, or did you have a really good high-pressure car wash?

BTW, welcome to the board...even if you're here out of desperation!  We'll get you running.  Please post your car's year type & model.  FYI, I have a '91 e30 318i sedan.  It makes a big difference to figuring out the problem.  Use the search too...every problem you're likely to have with this car is discussed on this board...and many more besides!

Thanks for the warm welcome. I know about the search function and I do hate jumping right into questions. I used to prowl the bimmerfest and roadfly forums allot. My first car was a 528e e28 that had 270,000+ miles and I loved it. This car I bought for cheap to take to graduate school, I let dad drive it while i drove my Z (1972 240z) and the car died coming out of the drive way and never fired again. So, you're def right, this time my visit is out of desperation..

The car is an 1991 bmw 318is coupe with the m42 4cyl.  Yes, the engine turns over but does not try to start at all it just spins. I dont believe the check engine light comes on and no, I just started reading about the OB stomp test. If you could walk me through the stomp test I would buy you a beer even if I had to mail it lol!  

Right now, im going to check all of the fuses and fusible links (I HATE THEM I ended up re-wiring my datsun with a painless harness and fuse block because of all the shorts). Previously I had replaced them 4 times. oh well.

Ill be in the garage checking things out. Ill Talk to you soon hopefully!

270-565-2424   Is the number to my friends garage im at. If you wanted to give me a call I will be here until late this evening.

Thanks so much,

Marcus

[DesktopDave]

The stomp test uses the throttle position sensor to signal the DME to display all codes.  Turn the key to position 2 (don't start the car) and pretty quickly press the gas pedal all the way down five times.  You should see the CEL start to blink.  It takes me a few tries, the timing has to be perfect.

When I had a no start like yours, the only code it displayed was 1215, bad MAF.  Needless to say, the MAF was OK...it was that damn CPS.  So definitely test that first.  You also don't want to have to replace it...I had to pull the A/C compressor & mount to pull & clean mine.  It was filthy from a leaking crank seal, and once you get enough rust stuck there it'll fail to signal the DME.  However, once it was clean the car fired right up.

Check the resistance on the crank position sensor.  Believe it or not, the fuel pump will not prime the system if the CPS sends no signal to the ECU/DME.  Resistance should be 640 ohms +- 10% IIRC.

Next likely candidate is the relays.  There are three that are not in the relay box, they're under that long thin plastic cover on the firewall.  They're the main relay, fuel pump relay and O2 heater relay.  Test those by pulling them & jumping their sockets in the car.

Last candidate is the fusible link.  Only do this if the check engine light is good but never turns on.  There is an 80amp link buried in the positive lead wire coming off the battery in the trunk.  You'll see a long plastic protective shroud on the passenger rear wheel well...remove the plastic nuts & move it out of the way.  The small wire powers the DME among a few other things.  It is not fused and passes through no relays.  There is a lot of heat shrink tubing...but you'll eventually find a small silicon board, and it should have a tin strip running along it.  My 325is didn't on day...that's how I found it.  I used a bolt to reconnect it...you could splice in a 40amp inline fuse holder I suppose.

[thunder39]

awesome. ill check all that out. I found this on the fusible links:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=939668

Ill try the stomp test and see what I get

[thunder39]

one more question. On the small box containing the main relay, fuel relay, and the o2 relay. Which one is which. My car is missing the cover. Here is my game plan

1. check relays (prob need to know resistance values)
2. check fuses. (No book. book in car is 325i e30)
3. Check fusible links, power to ecm (where is that lol)
4. Check cps, possiblly replace.


Im going to get it!!!

[DesktopDave]

I think from left (driver) to right (passenger) they're main, FP, O2.  It's been a while and I have no short term memory.  No need to measure resistance on the relays...pull them & test directly from the battery.  Replace if no clicking...

Jump the relay sockets to verify circuit.  Continue testing until you've found the trouble.

Definitely check the ohms on both crank & cam position sensors.  Cam isn't as important as the crank.  That's the usual culprit.

[rob_e30]

If you're getting spark to every plug it's not the ECU and most likely not timing.  I would check fuel.

[RED IS 91]

one more question. On the small box containing the main relay, fuel relay, and the o2 relay. Which one is which. My car is missing the cover. Here is my game plan

1. check relays (prob need to know resistance values)
2. check fuses. (No book. book in car is 325i e30)
3. Check fusible links, power to ecm (where is that lol)
4. Check cps, possiblly replace.


Im going to get it!!!

If you read the link that romeomike gave you above half your questions would be answered .You asked what relay was what and in that link there is a picture of the relays with descriptions .
again ................ check it out there is alot of info there ........
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5462

[romeomike]

I think from left (driver) to right (passenger) they're main, FP, O2.  It's been a while and I have no short term memory.  No need to measure resistance on the relays...pull them & test directly from the battery.  Replace if no clicking...

Jump the relay sockets to verify circuit.  Continue testing until you've found the trouble.

Definitely check the ohms on both crank & cam position sensors.  Cam isn't as important as the crank.  That's the usual culprit.

Relays are the other way around -- just checked. Picture is in post #32 of the epic no-start thread (sticky candidate?). Here's another shot in their factory-original glory. White for main, blue for fuel pump, burnt orange for oxygen sensor heat.

[3bvert]

I suspect the cps
yes with the ac it is a beatch to get too, but  maybe you can get to it with brake clean, clean it and the crank and make sure there is not crap in the way
you should be able to test the resistance with out pulling it off the car too

for me, I did a  a/c delete, so that crap is not in my way, and its been a while, so I apologize if you can not get to it with a brake clean nozzle