Author Topic: The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt  (Read 6362 times)

teh Phil

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« on: June 29, 2009, 05:12:44 PM »
I'll preface this post by saying it is for a few reasons. Primarily, just to let me blow off some steam. Secondly, to serve as a heads-up for other M42 owners. Lastly, as a warning about a certain engine remanufacturer, whom shall go unnamed until I hear what they have to say.

After three years of just routine maintenance and loving care, my M42 finally gave me a repair week from hell. I've battled with the idle/stalling ever since I bought the car and it seemed to get worse over time. Finally it began stalling out regularly, but after cleaning up the vacuum hoses as documented here, and unplugging the "Make-the-car-run-shitty" wire as discussed here, that seems to be gone (fingers crossed, of course).

Once I got that side of the engine back together, it idled fine, but I heard a strange noise, like a lady of the streets slowly swirling marbles around her teeth. It was silent above idle, but I still did not like the sound of it. I parked the car again, and ordered the M44 tensioner from Pelican. After overnighting it across the country and putting the new one in, the marbles were still swirling.

Now, to their credit, this company seems to have done their research. The tensioner I took out seemed to be in great shape, and was the M44 variant instead of the M42. I suppose I shouldn't be completely surprised, since the engine only has a little under 50k miles on it since the prior owner dropped this one in.

After expressing some desires to club a baby seal and set my car on fire and pushing it off of a cliff, my brother calmed me down and advised me to take the car apart. After a week of working on the car to no avail, the last thing I wanted to do was tear the other side of the engine apart. He graciously did most of the work with my help (and by help I mean handing tools and drinking beer) and we proceeded to remove the timing covers.

As we were pulling off the upper cover, my brother noticed something awry.

The bolt that holds the timing chain guide to the block had threaded itself out, and as such the chain was rattling ever so slightly against the guide rail. The rail itself appears to be in great shape, which makes me think that it only worked itself out in the week or two prior. I did not hear this marbles sound when I was inspected the car a week a go diagnose the idle issue.


Which leads me to my gripe about the engine remanufacturer. After doing some research on realoem, I found out that yes, there was indeed supposed to be a bolt inside this hollow bolt. You can see it here, part 9. I believe the larger hollow screw is a part of the guide rail, so it doesn't have a part number of its own, someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

So we pulled the oil pan, as if it was indeed installed and had worked its way out, it would end up there. The engine ran fine prior to this noise, and the pickup filter was intact, no signs of a bolt making it through to the upper pan/engine. So, unless I am way off the mark here, and am making up parts that do not exist, the rebuilt engine that the prior owner paid nearly $5k for was void of what I would consider to be one of the more "vital" bolts in the engine. Not exactly premium service for a premium price.

While cleaning the gasket residue off of the covers, I found this little gem. Obviously this hollow bolt has been working its way out for a while.

DesktopDave

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 07:29:04 PM »
Makes me want to go check mine...I'm not sure if the updated tensioner is in there yet.  I'm holding out for the next oil change right now.  Great find there, especially nice with the beer & helper!
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E30/318is

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 08:29:02 PM »
Correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't threadlocker be used in these type of fastener scenarios, i.e. blue Loctite/Permatex?

Hope your helper brought his own brew. I usually have to make a beer run for mine then the help gets questionable anyway after a 6 or 8 of them.

Eric Happy Meal

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 01:16:40 AM »
yes there should be a bolt there, and no you dont need to use loctite or a thread sealer on it.

JP 91iS

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 08:56:28 AM »
At least you caught it before your engine killed itself!  Hope I torqued mine down sufficiently...
-JP
Project M42: generating funds

HATER-PROOF

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 09:06:13 AM »
This is just a reminder to me that little brothers can be used to bring me beer and hand me the tools that I may need--If they know which is which, but it's good that your bro was there to calm you down and concentrate on the problem.

ten2doyle102

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 11:42:10 AM »
Glad you caught it time!  Pretty scary stuff there!  :)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Ramblin MAn

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 06:05:45 PM »
Did this fix your problem? I have the same thing going on. Just replaced the upper guide rail with no effect.

quinn11m20

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 09:15:05 PM »
Teh Phil, Sir. And I mean the term loosly. That was awsome. I laughed all the way through that post. "You use your tongue prettier than a two dollar whore". ( Blazing Saddles, Taggart). Now no disrepect to you and your car. But I like the way you got your point across. Well good luck with what that entails you to fix.
When I get back to Daytona ( my home) I will have to check that out myself. Thanks for the laugh. Tony.

kowalski

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 06:14:55 PM »
who built the motor?
Sale:
EBC Green stuff pads = $60 shipped front and rear set available


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Murdul

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 06:27:45 PM »
When I heard a marbles sound in my car I stuck a magnetic pickup rod down along the timing chain and all over in the cam-shaft area.  I found a washer, and a small cylinder with a nail shaped head which seemed to fit directly through the open screw you have pictured.  The guide rail in my motor was still the original, although the chain and sprockets I believe were new.  When I changed the left and right guides out I pulled the driver side guide out in pieces, it was cracked into several long pieces, none of which were attached to the bolts.  I am very lucky it never caused any damage.  Your guide appears to be the updated version.  Which I had to buy a new bolt to place in that top open screw.  So if someone had a similar problem as I did they may have installed the guide with no screw.

glenfoxman

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 09:47:52 PM »
The throughbolt O-rings in my gasket set are indeed the blue ones, and I would prefer to use the green viton ones.

Does pelican have these, and if not what is the part number from EBS?
It looks like it might be: POR024395

??

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glenfoxman

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 02:41:58 PM »
There have been a gazillion versions of the front pulley.  Its probably best to use a lock washer if the factory originally called for it.  I would compare the bolt that comes to the one that was in there before.  I know, not a scentific and definitive answer, but its probably the easiest thing to do...

-Wayne
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Ramblin MAn

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 03:36:58 PM »
Help me out guys, did that fix the marble sound? I don't want to go pulling covers just to pull covers

Ramblin MAn

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The Tale of the Missing Guide Rail Bolt
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 12:06:03 AM »
I PM'd teh Phil and he confirmed that he did get the sound he described to stop, but now I have a question.

When I looked at the m42 I have making the noise, the bolt was there and tight. However, the threaded sleve was showing 4-5 threads or 1/4 -3/8s of an inch between the timing chain guide rail and the block side of the timing case, not the cover side.

Who knows for sure if that is or is not how it's supposed to be? Should the guide rail be touching the block or does it float on that threaded sleve? I looked at the bently but it's not clear.

Any of you guys that have been in there know for sure? Anyone had their valve cover off recently and noticed?