Author Topic: 9 Weeks to Build a E30 318IS Track Car - Nurburgring 12th April 09 (Read 17943 times)

finite · « **on:** February 01, 2009, 04:25:38 PM »

I've just picked up a spanking e30 318is with an e36 m44 motor running with the e30 m42 inlet and electronics. Needless to say she's a little beast and will hopefuly do me proud on the Nurburgring in April!

So after a long day at work and a long trip to the other side of the UK I drive her home in the freezing night with the heater blowing cold air... and the temp guage on zero. The radiators getting hot and the pipes to the heater matrix seem to be hot... any ideas anyone? Termostat? Bleeding?

After a nights kip and a lie in we commenced work on phase 1 - strip and clean. The interior's all out baring the dash and front door cards, the sunroof mechanism's all gone and the panel welded/siliconed in place.

Now looking for ideas for suspension, tyres, wheels, exhausts (has a stainless manifold and mid section) cage, etc etc so anyone with suggestions feel free!

First thing first though somebody have an idea about the coolant system issues? I can't deal with much more driving with six layers on!!

Cheers!

Phil

~NUBURGRING DEADLINE 9 WEEKS - 12th April 09~
~Cars going:~
~String Rx7 3rd Gen - 450bhp+ track monster~
~Matt Rx7 1st Gen - Lean mean white fighting machine~
~Phil BMW e30 318 - "Going to eat the 1st Gen"~
~Stu 350z - Mild man of metal~
~Rick/Andy Porche 944 - Will they keep up? Or will we!~
~John - Is he coming or is he not!~

Oh and I've now got a full mint (really mint!) interior for sale if anyone wants it. South west UK location

finite · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2009, 04:26:13 PM »

Been reading up on the temp guage/heater issues... wondering if they're two issues. Issue one being the thermostat and/or something else causing the heater problem. Issue 2 being the guage, wondering if this is because the m44 motor doesn't have a port for the second sensor the e30 needs for the guage (m42s have two sensors, one for guage one for ecu I think!). Can anyone confirm or correct this?

e30guydownunder · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:37:49 PM »

sounds good i have about the same dealine to get mine built and i've had an 8 week head start!

Have a look at the Race Car album

http://s365.photobucket.com/albums/oo93/e30guydownunder/

should give you ideas on my solution for a roll cage atleast. I'll hoping to finish the rollcage within two weeks then it is mostly a matter of assembling the car and i should be ready for easter.

Good luck.

no idea on temp issues thou, doesn't get that cold over here

Boosted E30 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2009, 06:18:03 PM »

I would start with changeing your thermostate first its probably stuck open. Does your gauge needle move when you start the car or turn ignition on?? Yes the temp sensors in the head under the manifold one is for ecu and the other for gauge.

txleadfoot · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2009, 09:42:37 AM »

sounds like your thermostat is stuck open.

finite · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2009, 03:20:45 PM »

Nice car mate! Where you gonna be racing? Coming to the ring too?

And now for a million questions and a lot of rambling!!

I'll be changing the thermostat this week, hoping this will correct the problem. The guage does come up from it's resting point when the ignition is turned on so I presume it's working. It's an M44 motor from an e36 318i so I think it only has one temp sensor (

). How difficult is the water pump to change as I dont know if it's been done?

Been having a root around today, going to put a catch can together for the crank and head breather. Couldn't quite see where the crank breather hose went too but i presume the one going under the inlet manifold eventually hits the block (anyone know where?).

Was out in the snow last night having a little sideways play... noticed the diff "clunks" in quite hard, don't think it's the diff as it feels solid and no noise but do the subframe or diff bushes go on the e30s? If so can anyone recommend some?

I'm getting a CDS Club Cage from Custom Cages as a starting point. A good mate of mine will be fitting and adding more bracing (el stringer works for Caterham welding up the chassis, he did a bespoke CDS cage for another mate's Gen 1 RX which I'll have to get some pics of for you).

Any recommendations for discs/pads/hoses/suspension/exhausts (mine's blowing), wheels, tyres.

Boosted E30 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2009, 06:57:21 PM »

Water pump is easy just take off the belt thats running the alternator undo the 4 bolts on the pully and remove it. the you just undo the other 4 bolts holding the water pump in and you can try to pull it out but that may be hard. when your looking at the waterpump you will see 2 little bolt holes that you thread bolts into and push the pump out that way.

yes the subframe mounts fail alot on e30s probably thats whats clunking if they are totally collapsed.

xwill112x · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2009, 08:31:58 PM »

it would over-heat if it was water pump, or air locked by someone not bleeding the system properly.

has to be thermostat.

its like 19$ tops to replace w/ a gasket and everything.

odbod · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2009, 02:27:15 AM »

I had the same problem when I changed a head recently, gauge got to less than 1/4 when driving, but would get hot and hold at 1/2 way when left standing.

Try letting it idle to warm up once the gauge is up check you are getting hot air from th heaters and then go for a drive, if the thermostat is stuck open (or knackered, mine looked fine when I took it out) the engine temp will drop and the heater will stop working.

There is also a solenoid valve above the glove box, I can't remember if it opens or closes the hot water supply, but if it's not working could be stopping the water flow to the heater.

Although the hoses feel warm, do they feel too hot to touch?

On the M44 sensor issue, some have tried to wire up the E30 dash and ECU into the 2way one (3 pin I believe) in the M44 head, this doesn't work as they don't talk to the E30 systems, you need to put the ECU sensor (2 wire one from E30 M42) into the head and either drill another port for the Dash sensor (1 wire sensor) into the head or make up a mounting in the water hose near the thermostat so it picks up the temp increase when the thermostat opens, whilst not ideal that way you will at least know if you are getting to hot (although if you run low on water and boil the head it may not pick it up fast enough).

The M42 head flows better than the M44 head so it may be worthwhile changing back to the M42 head anyway.

finite · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2009, 04:27:43 PM »

Got the car in the air today and had a good look at the subframe etc, all bushes look good baring front wishbone bushes are gone so a set of those are on the way. Car already has bilsten shocks which is a result! Thought it handled rather well for a stock car. Unfortunately found that the fuel tank is leaking from the filler neck (heard this is common). So on that note is the fuel tank in a 318is Coupe the same as in a saloon, anyone know where i can get one in the UK?

I've got a new thermostat so planning on fitting it this weekend. It's a complete M44 engine that was put in by the previous owner. I think the temp sensor in the head is a two wire one, so I guess they hooked this up right. I can't see the other temp sensor anywhere nor find the wiring for it in the engine bay (what should I be looking for?).

The symptoms are:

1. Car doesn't idle when cold (have to heal and toe) but after two or three minutes running will idle fine

2. Temp guage moves off of resting when the ignition is turned on but does not move at all whether car is driving at speed, slowly or standing still.

3. Heater always blows cold air on any setting - fan is working, assume temp dial is working as air flow restriction can be heard as heat setting is increased

4. Radiator gets hot as expected and remains constant

5. Heater hoses to bulkhead get "warm" but not hot

So any ideas on the above? Can you tell me the correct bleeding procedure for when I cahnge the thermostat housing and flush the system?

As it's an M44 is changing the water pump still a simple job that doesn't need the cam belt off?

Thanks again for all your help!!

--------------
Sump Gasket - Saturday
Full oil flish and change - Saturday
Full coolant flush and thermostat - Saturday
Fuel filter change - Saturday
Plugs - Saturday
Engine mount weld in - Sunday
Seat mounts fabrication - Sunday
Cage ordered - http://www.customcages.co.uk
Fuel Tank - NEEDED URGENTLY
Brakes - Saving hard!
Front Arm Bushes ordered
Exhaust - Ordered
Suspension - Billy's onboard!
Harnesses - any offers?
Wheels and Tyres - Speedlines and Yokos ordered
Catch Can - ideas forming - are the two hoses connected to the inlet hose the crank case and rocker cover breathers?
Sump Guard - being fabbed by String
Air Filter - being fabbed by String
Cold Air Box - being fabbed by String
Strut Brace - being fabbed by String

Nurburgring - 8 and a half weeks and counting!!

finite · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2009, 03:17:57 PM »

So after many hours in the freezing cold snow and ice today I finally changed the thermostat (don't ask it is a long horrible story!). Needless to say the story doesn't get any better as changing the stat has neither cured the heater problem or the temp guage issue.

I'm now starting to wonder if it's actually an M42 engine from an e36 as I'm convinced there are two sensors in the head as per photos of M42 engines I've seen on tinter-web. Trying to get hold of the guy who sold me the car, hopefuly he'll have more information. Anyone able to give me a hand?

At the moment the following problems exist:

1, Temperature guage is not showing a reading (it moves up from rest with ignition on but nothing else).
2. Heater is not working.

In relation to the above I have changed the thermostat. However this has made no difference. The pipes to the radiator get hot as does the rad, the pipes to the bulkhead for the heater get hot (not as hot as rad). When I changed the thermostat I ordered a housing and stat for an e36 M44 engine, however the one that turned up didn't fit at all (didn't have the same round housing, nor was it as big). Which makes me wonder if is an M44 motor in the car? When bleeding the rad the bleed screw sheared but i've created a beatuy out of a banjo bolt and some washers (even involved welding!).

3. The car is extreemly difficult to start when cold. I have to hold the revs at about 1000 for a couple of minutes. It regularly stalls if you don't heal and toe for the first couple of minutes. Feels and smells like it's running very rich. Once car is warm (say three to five minutes from starting) it idles fine however still smells like it's overfuelling.

4. Exhaust rear box is blowing. Nevermind these things happen! Powerflow exhaust on its way.

5. OS engine mount bolts sheered. Nevermind again! Going to weld them in tomorrow.

6. Oil sump gasket is gone and leaking like a sieve. Again nevermind, going to sort that tomorrow. Now on this note I went and got a sump gasket for an e36 M44 motor as per what I was told was in the car. However I'm not convinced it's the right one which makes me wonder even more if it is an M44 engine?

??

318ishonk · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2009, 05:47:55 AM »

Hi finite,

people could help you if you would take pictures of the engine and show them here.

I think only the M44 is equipped with only ONE temp sensor in the cylinder head. M42 of both E30 and E36 had two sensors: BLUE for the DME and YELLOW/ORANGE for the temp gauge.

Furthermore I think the M44 double sensor is not appropriate for the M42 DME. Get a BLUE temp sensor for M42 and throw away the M44 double sensor (isn't that a temp switch instead of a sensor anyway?). After that you still havn't got a working temp gauge but the DME is able to read the water temp of the engine and will run smoother when idling cold.

Regarding the cold heater: change both hoses connected to the heater. Probably the water flow is in wrong direction so it can't get through the heater.

Tips f�r brake pads/rotors:
- standard BMW OEM parts for normal driving
(does also work on occasional trips on the Nurburgring).
- Hawk or Pagid yello pads for racing or heavy duty Nurburgring use.
Combine them with group N rotors (standard rotors cannot stand
the heat for a long time).
Group N rotors are e.g. Tarox Zero.

Hodge · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2009, 08:31:00 AM »

Sweeeeet

finite · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2009, 02:46:26 PM »

Thanks 318ishonk

I had a look at the situation today along with changing my lower sump gasket... well replacing with instant gasket anyway! Now the bottom hose on the rad is staying cold, the top hose gets hot, the radiator pretty much stays cold (a little warmth on the expansion tank side), the hoses to the bulkhead are hotter than they were but still not as hot as the top hose into the rad.

Temp sensor is still not working. Still no heat from heater.

I've finally managed to have a look at the head and it does have two sensors in it (blue (ecu) and brown (gauge)) so have ordred both. This week I will be doing the following:

1. Drain coolant again

2. Remove and refit thermostat again (how can I identify its the right one and working?)
3. Remove throttle body
4. Eliminate throttle body warming plate and simplify hoses under throttle body as per http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
5. Rmove upper and lower inlet manifold, clean and powder coat
6. Replace brown and blue temp sensors and test (got code reader on the way)
7. Put it all back together and bleed. Couple of things on this - my bleed screw has been replaced by a normal bolt with o-ring and some washers, will this stop it from bleeding properly? Which way round should the heater hoses go?

I've also got to weld a patch over an inner wing hole, a hole in the bottom of both front wings and weld in the engine mounts (sheered bolts).

Should keep me busy!

I really appreciate all your help guys - please keep it coming, at the moment I've 8 weeks to go till we're off to the Nurburgring, unless I can get the coolant system working properly I'm not going

318ishonk · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2009, 03:41:36 PM »

The wire from brown/orange temp sensor is supposed to connect to pin 26 of the blue connector of your instrument cluster / temp gauge.
Between the connector of that sensor and its housing you should measure about 600 Ohms at room temperature.

Between the two connectors of the blue temp sensor its about 2300 Ohms impedance (at room temp.). One wire is ground (i think) an the other should be connected to pin 78 of the ECU.

Check those wires. Temp sensors rarely fail or get damaged. Both sensors decrease in impedance with raising coolant temp (NTC).

As for the heater: you have only two possibilities fixing the hoses. Try both.
Remember to check whether the heater and the radiator are not clogged. And by the way: with a defect coolant pump both heater and radiator wouldn't work, right? So check that pump.