Engine failure due to pan gasket shift/bolt loss (e30 only)

[sheepdog]

So should I hold off on a new tensioner till you can confirm this???

How bad is your chain?
Mine could be clearly heard from 3400-4500 rpm, not sure how well of an estimate of wear that is, but it is all I have to go on other than saying it was pretty loud.

If it is real bad, I am not sure what to do other than replace it and the tensioner together.

If it is not very bad, a new tensioner may be good for it.


I will report once I get it apart and find out how bad things are. I have no idea if I will be able to find the ultimate cause of the problem though.

[///Motorsport]

when i go in and remove the lower oil pan, i don't need anything other than standard tools, torque wrench and jack stands right?  My question is whether i will need to order a new gasket ahead of time, and if anyone has a part no.?

[Eurospec]

Standard tools will be fine. I would replace the gasket. The p/n is 11131709815

[///Motorsport]

thanks. i forgot to read the thread after my last post.  i didnt think the lower oil pan was the actual problem, good clarification by m42boy and sheepdog. i was being retarded.  well my car gets insured tommorrow! finally get to drive legally!

[D. Clay]

Mine went bad at 135,000 miles- sounded like a diesel at low revs. I put one in and made no other changes. I now have just shy of 200,000 miles on it with no problems so far.

[sheepdog]

Pulled the front end apart today, 2in crack in the oil pump housing, and one chain guide is pretty much destroyed. All sprockets are worn to shit as well.

Several factors I think led to this, at least some could be atributed to the new timing chain tensioner.

Pics in a few hours of the pump at least.

[sheepdog]

Put in a new writeup.

Heres what I found.
I think I brokeded it.

[bmuser]

ok wait let me get this straight. If when you take off the lower oil pan you find some bolts, do you just screw in the new ones you bought in the places where they should be? can you re use the ones that fell out?

Or do you absolutely have to take the upper oil pan part?

[sheepdog]

ok wait let me get this straight. If when you take off the lower oil pan you find some bolts, do you just screw in the new ones you bought in the places where they should be? can you re use the ones that fell out?

Or do you absolutely have to take the upper oil pan part?

You do not need to buy new bolts.


Pull the lower pan.
Look up. You will see a handful of bolts inside that hold the upper pan in place.
Some may be laying in the lower pan.
Check for loose ones, if they are loose, tighten them, you may also want to consider adding Locktite.
Reinstall the original ones that fell out using Locktite.


All there is to it.
Only thing you may need to buy is a lower pan gasket if you do this during an oil change.
Ask anyone who has had this stuff happen, it is worth every second and penny to do.

[91318isguy]

I'm so SORRY for you sheepdog. You've helped us out so much in the past and now this happens to you. So sorry man. By the way, would I be correct in stating to M42 boy that the part being aluminum does give a bit, so any warpage wouldn't most likely be much of a problem. I agree sheepdog, that would be an extreme amount of heat to warp the pan.

One other question about noise. How do I know it's not the fan or fan bearing that I'm hearing and it's the chain? When changing the chain is there anything really special you have to do (other than remove the parts in front of the housing). Would you recommend replacing the sprocket, chain and tensioner?

[sheepdog]

I'm so SORRY for you sheepdog. You've helped us out so much in the past and now this happens to you. So sorry man.

This was right at the beginning of this site actually, and not all of this happened to me (though I have certainly paid my dues for this site). The first indicator of a major problem was was Febi Guibo's car as he was driving to Metric Mechanic for his stroker engine. He did not get half way before pan gasket shift happened. We dissected his motor at Metric Mechanic and documented it.

After seeing his, and knowing BMWman91 had his motor die from pump explosion a bit earlier (at the time we all thought it was a fluke), we started putting things together. I had planned on pulling my pan over the weekend when mine did the same as Bmwman91's car did 3 days before I dropped it.

2 different problems, same cause.

All of us who had this stuff happen are responsible for you getting this info, I just happened to be the one who documented it and you could say wrong (or right) place, right time I guess. Until we had a home for this engine, all information of other people having this issue was pretty much lost on other forums due to the mass of 325 owners and issues. Same with most of the other M42 specific info.

By the way, the M42 is not the only BMW engine with this problem. At least one 5 series engine has this issue big time however only one or 2 places will discuss it.

By the way, would I be correct in stating to M42 boy that the part being aluminum does give a bit, so any warpage wouldn't most likely be much of a problem. I agree sheepdog, that would be an extreme amount of heat to warp the pan.

Which part warping? The pan? The pan can give some, the timing chain housing can definitely warp as well. How much of a problem either is, could be debated. I would think pan warpage is not an issue, but the timing chain housing, that could be an issue. It has pressurized oil flowing through it and a spinning oil pump.

One other question about noise. How do I know it's not the fan or fan bearing that I'm hearing and it's the chain? When changing the chain is there anything really special you have to do (other than remove the parts in front of the housing). Would you recommend replacing the sprocket, chain and tensioner?

Take a long screwdriver, and place the point against the timing chain section the other against your ear, may want to try the tensioner. Then repeat on the valve cover. You should be able to tell where it is coming from that way.

[bmwman91]

It still blows my mind that this is such an issue.  The M42 seems so well designed in other respects...this is such a big oversight!  I have a couple of stripped upper pan bolt holes, and I REALLY need to helicoil them.  Happens to be the 2 adjacent to the pickup, too.  I do nto want ANOTHER pooped oiling system, I am not sure if the motor can take another one!

[91318isguy]

Sheep, have you gotten any information back from BMW dealing with this issue being so wide spread? I had to pick up some rotor locator bolts and decided to talk to the maintenance manager. He mentioned that since it is showing itself as a wider issue than one or two owners we should start with BMW NA and they would (at least in my case) send it on to Atlanta and they would take a look at it. The number he gave me is 800-831-1117.

I also talked to one of the maintenance techs there who has been there for a long time. He mentioned that the place where the head gasket leaks is where the gasket goes from the head through the timing chain cover area. He said that it's worth a try giving BMW NA this information as well. Toyota's V6 from the 90's have head gasket issues and come to find out, Toyota put out a bulletin covering the first blown head gasket to be replaced free of cost. Maybe with a little persuation we can get together and see if corporate will make this a bulletin as well.

BMWman - as far as durability, I was talking to the same maintenance guy at the dealership and he told me about a guy bringing his M42 in for engine failure after 6 months. Come to find out he pissed someone off and they poured gravel into the engine through the oil filler cap. He said after looking at it, the only thing that made the engine fail was that for 6 months the engine ground the gravel into a fine powder and when the powder got into the oil pump, that's when it failed. It's pretty obvious we have a very durable engine.

I'll be checking back later.

[sheepdog]

Sheep, have you gotten any information back from BMW dealing with this issue being so wide spread? I had to pick up some rotor locator bolts and decided to talk to the maintenance manager. He mentioned that since it is showing itself as a wider issue than one or two owners we should start with BMW NA and they would (at least in my case) send it on to Atlanta and they would take a look at it. The number he gave me is 800-831-1117.

I also talked to one of the maintenance techs there who has been there for a long time. He mentioned that the place where the head gasket leaks is where the gasket goes from the head through the timing chain cover area. He said that it's worth a try giving BMW NA this information as well. Toyota's V6 from the 90's have head gasket issues and come to find out, Toyota put out a bulletin covering the first blown head gasket to be replaced free of cost. Maybe with a little persuation we can get together and see if corporate will make this a bulletin as well.

BMWman - as far as durability, I was talking to the same maintenance guy at the dealership and he told me about a guy bringing his M42 in for engine failure after 6 months. Come to find out he pissed someone off and they poured gravel into the engine through the oil filler cap. He said after looking at it, the only thing that made the engine fail was that for 6 months the engine ground the gravel into a fine powder and when the powder got into the oil pump, that's when it failed. It's pretty obvious we have a very durable engine.

I'll be checking back later.

BMWNA is not likely to care about a 15+ year old car.  It served its expected lifespan and then some. They may put out a bulletin saying to check it when they come in for servicing, but that is likely all. Not saying they will do nothing but if the 5 series guys have had no luck, I doubt we will.

There are far more than 2 or 3 members here who have had the problem. I know of at least 4 engines that have failed from bolts falling out, and the number of members who have had bolts in their pans are probably into the dozens.

The gasket he was talking about is the Profile gasket, and it was fixed years ago.

The Profile gasket creates another issue though. Many of our cars had this replaced, and when they did it, the pan was pulled. BMW itself may not be entirely at fault for the bolts falling out as much as many of the dealers are.

I will try and put together some info for BMWNA though and see what they will say about it.


And I am sorry, but I cannot imagine that you could not tell something was wrong with an engine with a cup of gravel or sand in it. Should have made a hell of a racket, and where was this guys oil changes?

[91318isguy]

Good thought. He said the guy mentioned alot of noise (dumb@$$), but thought the car sounded like that. Idiot. Anyway. Hope something can happen. Did your engine suffer any damage?