How many of you run 87 octane fuel?

Author Topic: How many of you run 87 octane fuel?  (Read 40763 times)

nomad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2008, 01:27:32 PM »
Quote from: tjts1;49397
Enjoy your cracked header. You won't have to wait long.

I had no idea so many dedicated gear heads were completely clueless about octane and how it effects the spark ignition engine. I am in awe. High octane = high exhaust temperature? 87 octane  is for city driving? Are you serious?

LOL


werd
SoCal, 318is: IT RUNS AGAIN!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

tinindian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2008, 03:00:57 PM »
Quote
Another reason that 91 octane fuel is recommended is that back when the E30 was produced, gasoline quality was not nearly what it is compared today. The E30 was produced towards the end of the era when gasoline was being transitioned from leaded to unleaded.


The octane rating tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. Higher compression engines like the M42 need 91 octane fuel, the M20 has low compression and runs great on 87 octane.

Quote
I would guess that now, with current technology, you could run 89 octane or "Plus" gasoline and it would perform the same as 91 octane or "premium" back in the 80's


I agree technology has changed since the early 90's so in today’s cars you can run a lower octane rating on a higher compression engine. Unfortunately our cars do not benefit from the latest technology available in the industry.

EN318isPDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 650
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/ItotheAtotheN
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2008, 03:12:29 PM »
Quote from: tjts1;49397
Enjoy your cracked header. You won't have to wait long.

I had no idea so many dedicated gear heads were completely clueless about octane and how it effects the spark ignition engine. I am in awe. High octane = high exhaust temperature? 87 octane  is for city driving? Are you serious?

LOL


Negative Nancy
WTB 97+ M3 Front Strut Assembly and 97+ M3 Control Arms (caster is important)
WTB Driver side Diamondschwartz fender PST

EN318isPDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 650
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/ItotheAtotheN
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2008, 03:20:04 PM »
I am going to see some of the best bmw techs in my state and I'm going to ask there opinion on what grade fuel to run in a 10:1 inline 4. With full intake and exhaust. I'll get back to you with what the guys who went to school and deal with bmws everyday of the week say
WTB 97+ M3 Front Strut Assembly and 97+ M3 Control Arms (caster is important)
WTB Driver side Diamondschwartz fender PST

strad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2008, 03:29:42 PM »
You had better tell them exactly what motor and model year you're talking about.  "inline 4 with 10:1 compression" is a bit vague language to use when talking about something as precise as octane.  

The M42 does not have knock sensors.  I for one don't wish to spend my money rebuilding sh!t that shouldn't have gotten busted in the first place, so I'm going to continue running premium gasoline in my 91 M42 that doesn't have knock sensors.  I don't need to consult a tech in order to follow instructions that are printed clearly in my car's owner's manual, and I don't need to ask a tech why I need to follow those instructions.
1997 328is, 123k miles, Cosmos Schwartz Metallic
1992 325ic, 163k miles, Lagunengruen Metallic
1991 318i, 210k miles, Brillantrot (sold)
1991 535i, 138k miles, Calypsorot Metallic

nomad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2008, 03:33:54 PM »
good, make sure you tell them what temp it runs at and that it has no knock sensors or automatic timing adjustment.
SoCal, 318is: IT RUNS AGAIN!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

batsbats

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2008, 05:17:47 PM »
I might try this out in the fall/winter.

tjts1:  Do you wot/redline it with the 87/89 octane?  So as long as the intake temps stay below 158f, no pinging should occur?

mkodama

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2008, 06:24:48 PM »
Quote from: quinn11m20;49392
What!!! MKODAMA. do know what the CAT is for? I was designed for high temp. Its a ceramic block. It burns the unburned hydrocarbons to lower emissions. Higher octane fuel, wrapped headers and a hot cat will drastically lower hydrocarbon emissions. I wrapped my headers to take the heat out of the engine bay and put it down the exhaust to the cat to lower engine bay temp. Cooler engine bay temp means colder, more dense air for the engine. The Internal Combustion Engine was designed to burn oxygen. Fuel was just the catalyst to push the pistons. Fuel octane is very important. 87 89 93. 87 is for a lot of city driving and low compression engines. 89 is for mid-performance city, freeway driving. 93 is for high performance engines with high compression and good freeway driving. Look at Europe, In England (UK) they have one specific octane 95. The rest of Europe usually follows suit. So my point is this. High heat, high octane, AND A HOT CATALYTIC CONVERTER, does increase performance. The internal combustion engine is at its best at high RPM and High Temp. OK. You need to look at a cross section of a CAT.  Maybe then you will understand things better.


Yes, the catalytic converter was designed for high temperatures, you are correct on that one.  But don't think that it is impervious to heat.  Excessively high temperatures will partially melt and destroy the ceramic element inside.  Common causes for failed catalytic converters are overheating them or from clogging with excess fuel.

Gas octane is also measured different in the US compared to the EU.  The US uses AKI or Anti-Knock Index, which is the average of the RON (Research Octane Number) and MON(Motor Octane Rating) ratings.  Europe just uses the RON rating, and is why their fuel octane cannot be directly compared to ours.

For example:
The MON rating is usually 8 to 10 points lower than RON.  If you say the european gas pump said 95 RON, it could also be said to be 85 MON.  To get the AKI, like what is used in the US,

AKI = (RON + MON) / 2
AKI = (95 + 85) / 2
AKI = 90

So that would mean that 95 octane gas you saw is the equivalent to the "Premium" grade gas you see in the US.

And here's a fun fact: wrapping your headers and cat will create hotter exhaust temperatures and hotter exhaust temperatures or more prone to creating nitrogen oxides, a major pollutant that is measured during emission inspections.

mkodama

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2008, 06:49:23 PM »
Quote from: nomad;49399

Quote from: tjts1;49397
Enjoy your cracked header. You won't have to wait long.

I had no idea so many dedicated gear heads were completely clueless about octane and how it effects the spark ignition engine. I am in awe. High octane = high exhaust temperature? 87 octane  is for city driving? Are you serious?

LOL

werd

+1

Quote from: tinindian;49403
The octane rating tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. Higher compression engines like the M42 need 91 octane fuel, the M20 has low compression and runs great on 87 octane.



I agree technology has changed since the early 90's so in today’s cars you can run a lower octane rating on a higher compression engine. Unfortunately our cars do not benefit from the latest technology available in the industry.

Oh yeah, no doubt about that octane controls the auto-ignition of gasoline.  I was just getting into some minor details.  I fully agree with you on everything you stated.:D

Quote from: EN318isPDX;49405
Negative Nancy


sheepdog

  • Site Admin
  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2008, 10:54:23 PM »
Quote from: mkodama;49380

Another reason that 91 octane fuel is recommended is that back when the E30 was produced, gasoline quality was not nearly what it is compared today.  The E30 was produced towards the end of the era when gasoline was being transitioned from leaded to unleaded.

I would guess that now, with current technology, you could run 89 octane or "Plus" gasoline and it would perform the same as 91 octane or "premium" back in the 80's



Yes, gas is better.
Is your cylinder, head, valves, and piston all shiny and new or does it have some carbon buildup? Are you sure? How is the intake path, injectors, plugs, timing system, etc... Are your cams still timed exactly stock?

Your engine is not new and will not run as good as new.

Can it perform as good, maybe, but the lower octane still requires a timing change to get an efficient burn. An inefficient burn can blow pistons and burn up your cat.
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

sheepdog

  • Site Admin
  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2008, 10:58:15 PM »
Quote from: christophbmw;49366
havent done the math on our cars, but the later style with knock sensors not only de-tunes the engine, but you get about 2-3mpg less (im not blowing smoke either, this was on a 330ci, and a e38 740il both turned out better gas milage). Besides, whats 20 cents? Spread it over a year, if you fill up every week, thats only like $200. If you ask me, and im broke as all hell, $200 is not that bad of a payoff :rolleyes:.

Oh and i read in a previous post that Cheveron makes better explosions in the engine, if your fuel is "exploding" i dont think its running right, its supposed to "burn" ;).

That $200 will seem well spent if anything does go wrong.

You drive a BMW.
If you cannot afford to take care of it, you should get rid of it and buy something you can afford.

$200 would not cover almost any repair I have had to do so far. It definitely will not cover a timing chain or full rebuild. It won't even cover the parts required.
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

sheepdog

  • Site Admin
  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #86 on: May 15, 2008, 11:00:35 PM »
If you guys want to save money, try looking up hypermiler. You could probably average 45mpg in our cars.
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

tjts1

  • Legendary
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 1109
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2008, 12:14:30 AM »
Quote from: batsbats;49415
tjts1:  Do you wot/redline it with the 87/89 octane?  So as long as the intake temps stay below 158f, no pinging should occur?
I wish I had my car to try it out today. It was the first day of the year over 100f. Unfortunately my GF has the car while I work on her volvo. So far I have only tested it at WOT up to 90f intake temp.
Quote from: sheepdog;49449
You drive a BMW.
If you cannot afford to take care of it, you should get rid of it and buy something you can afford.
I don't think this has anything to do with affording a BMW. I started out using low octane fuel out of curiosity. I wanted to see if there was a way to make this car run reliably on 87 octane without any compromises. So far so good. If ever kill it I'll buy another. But I doubt octane will have anything to do with this car's demise. My next experiment involves water injection. :D
Quote from: sheepdog;49447
Are you sure? How is the intake path, injectors, plugs, timing system, etc.
I don't know, you be the judge. My engine is full of bees.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/2496605756_c1fdd73074_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/2495781545_5235c82284_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/2496605722_4f04604dac_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/2495781499_5a16af3de7_o.jpg
Ok i'll admit it. I cleaned it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 12:26:12 AM by tjts1 »
Sold but not forgotten

This is whats wrong with your car.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
[/thread]

mkodama

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2008, 01:38:36 AM »
Quote from: sheepdog;49447
Yes, gas is better.
Is your cylinder, head, valves, and piston all shiny and new or does it have some carbon buildup? Are you sure? How is the intake path, injectors, plugs, timing system, etc... Are your cams still timed exactly stock?

Your engine is not new and will not run as good as new.

Can it perform as good, maybe, but the lower octane still requires a timing change to get an efficient burn. An inefficient burn can blow pistons and burn up your cat.


Well, first of all, I don't even have my 318is in my hands yet:(, only a pinkslip.

But once I do, I will show you an engine so clean you'll be embarrassed to post pictures of your M42. :p

I definitely know what you mean though.  I helped a friend do a head gasket change on his 1989 Mercedes 190E and I was amazed at all the junk in the intake, on the valves, and built up on the pistons.

tinindian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2008, 08:37:03 AM »
Quote
I don't think this has anything to do with affording a BMW. I started out using low octane fuel out of curiosity. I wanted to see if there was a way to make this car run reliably on 87 octane without any compromises. So far so good. If ever kill it I'll buy another. But I doubt octane will have anything to do with this car's demise. My next experiment involves water injection.


Water injection will eliminate detonation but the down side is less power, water does not burn. Back in the 80's I used to drive a 1971 Trans Am, even though it had 8:1 compression, with the timing advanced I would get some pinging. I used a water injection system but added methanol to the mix it was believed that the methanol would help with HP but to tell you the truth I never tried it at the track or on a dyno so I can't say if it worked or not.