Author Topic: How many of you run 87 octane fuel?  (Read 40765 times)

nomad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2008, 03:08:40 PM »
Quote from: tjts1;49331


155k miles and counting on 87 octane says you're wrong.


I'm not disagreeing that you can run 87, especially with intake mods as you show, but the point of that post was to explain that the M42 does not have knock sensors, and therefore cannot retard timing to protect the engine.

It is a fact that probably 99% of modern fuel injected engines from OBDII on have knock sensors and will retard timing as much as possible to protect the engine. Totally agree. But the M42 does not have them so arguing on that basis alone isn't correct.

My point is that after spending the money I did to get my engine back together I'm cautious and looking at the info before I jump. I'll spend 2-3 more  for now, but will probably switch to 87 as well. I've de-carboned my cylinders which helps as well.
SoCal, 318is: IT RUNS AGAIN!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

nomad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2008, 03:21:58 PM »
All this talk of "dirty fuel", octane loss after a few weeks time, higher octane "burning better" is so outside the realm of science it's sad.

Also, I have no doubt that 87 is ok under 90*F, especially if the engine is not under a lot of load or running high RPMs.

But here in SoCal it's 115* in the summer, add to that the heat soak and A/C running and an uphill grade would certainly pose issues at lower octanes. That's the main reason I'm saying that I'd be safest with the higher recommended octane of 91.
SoCal, 318is: IT RUNS AGAIN!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

tjts1

  • Legendary
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 1109
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2008, 03:43:30 PM »
Quote from: nomad;49345
I'm not disagreeing that you can run 87, especially with intake mods as you show, but the point of that post was to explain that the M42 does not have knock sensors, and therefore cannot retard timing to protect the engine.
I stand corrected.
Quote from: nomad;49347
But here in SoCal it's 115* in the summer, add to that the heat soak and A/C running and an uphill grade would certainly pose issues at lower octanes. That's the main reason I'm saying that I'd be safest with the higher recommended octane of 91.
Thats a good point. I would also use 91 octane in that situation even with the cold air intake.
Sold but not forgotten

This is whats wrong with your car.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
[/thread]

EN318isPDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 650
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/ItotheAtotheN
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2008, 03:49:07 PM »
there really shouldnt be an arguement here. Our car requires 91 oct. My gramma is from typing posts on my iPhone. It loves to correct me. Just like u guys. Not changing oil increases wear. Running 87 oct does the same thing.
WTB 97+ M3 Front Strut Assembly and 97+ M3 Control Arms (caster is important)
WTB Driver side Diamondschwartz fender PST

PaulC

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2008, 05:48:50 PM »
For the record, the original E30 owners manual for US and Canadian models recommends for the 318i/s premium unleaded gasoline only (90 AKI or 95 RON).

Anyone with a DeLorean can verify this with BMW AG Munich, West Germany.

EN318isPDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 650
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/ItotheAtotheN
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2008, 05:55:04 PM »
Quote from: PaulC;49356
For the record, the original E30 owners manual for US and Canadian models recommends for the 318i/s premium unleaded gasoline only (90 AKI or 95 RON).

Anyone with a DeLorean can verify this with BMW AG Munich, West Germany.

I respect my m42 because on my gas door it says premium fuel required. My dads SHO says premium recommended and that bitch pings like crazy with regular but he's an oldman so he only runs regular!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 06:00:50 PM by EN318isPDX »
WTB 97+ M3 Front Strut Assembly and 97+ M3 Control Arms (caster is important)
WTB Driver side Diamondschwartz fender PST

sheepdog

  • Site Admin
  • Administrator
  • Legendary
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2008, 06:38:35 PM »
Quote from: EN318isPDX;49322
Obviously it was a drastic conparison but what i was trying to prove is even in 2008 the factory can design an engine that requires 92. Now even in 10 years should he stop running premium to save a few dollars?


I have seen people claim this works. One problem, you are talking an engine that wanted premium when new, it needs premium even more now due to any carbon build up. Older cars still require the same treatment, or BETTER than new.
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

EN318isPDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 650
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/ItotheAtotheN
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2008, 06:51:21 PM »
Thanks sheep. The car says premium u gotta run premium if u want it to run as the engineers planned
WTB 97+ M3 Front Strut Assembly and 97+ M3 Control Arms (caster is important)
WTB Driver side Diamondschwartz fender PST

tjts1

  • Legendary
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 1109
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2008, 07:41:18 PM »
Quote from: EN318isPDX;49351
Running 87 oct does the same thing.
Ok. Prove it.
Quote from: EN318isPDX;49360
Thanks sheep. The car says premium u gotta run premium if u want it to run as the engineers planned
If i wanted my car "to run as the engineers planned", It would still have power steering, a 4.1 LSD, a 4 turn rack, The world's most idiot series of vacuum and coolant hoses hidden under the intake manifold, 2 throttle heaters, a 158f air intake, 4 foot long ignition wires, single pintle injectors, a clutch fan and my all time favorite, cosmoline. I think some of us have moved a little bit beyond what the engineers planned.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 07:49:31 PM by tjts1 »
Sold but not forgotten

This is whats wrong with your car.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
[/thread]

christophbmw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 670
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2008, 09:09:32 PM »
havent done the math on our cars, but the later style with knock sensors not only de-tunes the engine, but you get about 2-3mpg less (im not blowing smoke either, this was on a 330ci, and a e38 740il both turned out better gas milage). Besides, whats 20 cents? Spread it over a year, if you fill up every week, thats only like $200. If you ask me, and im broke as all hell, $200 is not that bad of a payoff :rolleyes:.

Oh and i read in a previous post that Cheveron makes better explosions in the engine, if your fuel is "exploding" i dont think its running right, its supposed to "burn" ;).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

nomad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2008, 11:07:37 PM »
This pretty much sums up what the M42club is all about! :D

Quote from: tjts1;49361

If i wanted my car "to run as the engineers planned", It would still have power steering, a 4.1 LSD, a 4 turn rack, The world's most idiot series of vacuum and coolant hoses hidden under the intake manifold, 2 throttle heaters, a 158f air intake, 4 foot long ignition wires, single pintle injectors, a clutch fan and my all time favorite, cosmoline. I think some of us have moved a little bit beyond what the engineers planned.
SoCal, 318is: IT RUNS AGAIN!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

tinindian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2008, 11:56:37 PM »
Some of you guys should go work for BMW because it's obvious that you are way smarter that the top engineers that BMW hires to design there cars. It's amazing that these terribly designed cars still have such a following 17 years after they were first sold.

They state premium fuel because these are high compression engines with no knock sensors. While you may not always hear the detonations that does not mean it's not happening. You may not have engine failure in the next few thousand miles that does not mean your engine is not getting damaged. Even if you are not one to push the limit you probably still put the car under load enough to cause pinging, for instance going up a hill in a high gear.

If it's recommended to run premium that's what you should be running. If you want to save $200 a year sell your e30 and buy a Corolla, my wife's gets way better mileage than my e30 does and Toyota recommends regular fuel.

mkodama

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2008, 05:07:31 AM »
Quote from: quinn11m20;48767
I run 93 only, my mods are chip, intake, pulstar plugs, resistorless leads, and a little tuning by me. I tried to run 87 before my mods and my little "Natascha" knocked and pinged oh! it was ungodly. There is a Circle K around the block from me. They have 100 Octane. Natascha runs soooo! nice. And the smell. MMMMM! racing fuel smells soooo! nice. Higher Octane fuel permits less carbon build up. The fuel burns hotter which burns the carbon. Lower octane does not. Once in a while you should add an octane booster to help clean out the carbon build up.


Well, too bad Natascha can't talk, otherwise she would be telling you that the 100 octane gas is burning up her catalytic converters.  Higher octane gas is more resistant to combusting under pressure, but also burns a little slower unless it is compressed more, this is why your engine might also feel like it is running smoother.  That wonderful smell you get is from unburned fuel going into your exhaust, continuing to burn, and cooking your catalytic converter.  So in the end, the fuel in the cylinders will burn colder and the fuel in the exhaust will burn hotter.

Quote from: tjts1;49275
To each his own I guess. When you realize that the stock intake sucks in air at 158f it becomes pretty obvious why bmw requires 91 octane or better for this engine. There is nothing special about a 10:1 CR engine using 87 octane. My 10.7:1 CR volvo has been for the last 260k miles. Fix the intake problem and you can use 87 octane at all temperatures.
Also please don't tell me in not going to hear ping or knock. I've seen the difference octane can make for this engine depending on air temperature, altitude and load.

158F intake temperatures aren't that bad at all.  Most cars have much higher intake temperatures than you would probably expect.  One cause is that heat from the cylinders transfers into the engine head, and from there to the metal intake runners and metal intake plenum.  So all the intake air has to pass through heated metal tubing.  This is also why putting an air temp sensor in your airbox won't give a very accurate reading of what is actually going into your cylinders.

Quote from: EN318isPDX;49315
The reason I run chevron premium is because its not like that shell trash. Chev gas is better because it doesnt sit in the tank for a week. Its cleaner and thus provides better explosions. Riddle me this. My buddy has an evo x and chipped it to 320hp at the wheels. Now should he run regular? No? Should he not use synthetic? No! I get what your saying cobra. If you want to save money like a goldstein run regular and drive like a grandma but I believe you should drive a non turbo base model volvo. I feel bad for anyone who uses crappy oil and crappy gas

Ps. His all aluminum engine is only 9:1 so certainly he doesnt need 92 or better. Hmmmm his air intake is in the middle of the hood. Must be cold! As cold as an sti's intercooler

-Chevron and Shell are both good gas companies to buy from.  Any gas company with a Top Tier approval sells good gas.  Here is a list you should look at: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
-If gas sits in a tank for a week, in simple, it will not change "how well it explodes".  Gas is relatively stable when properly stored, but I still will agree with you that a gas station with lots of business is probably the better pick than one without much business.
-The reference to your friend's car is pretty irrelevant.  I don't see how that his car has 320hp makes any effect on what kinda gas he uses.  Give me the resources and I could manage 320hp with regular gasoline on an evo, it would just be a lot harder.  Also the fact that is engine is aluminum makes not difference on the gas he uses.  His compression ratio is also irrelevant to the gas he uses, especially since the car uses forced induction.

Quote from: EN318isPDX;49336
dirty meaning it sits in Arco's tank. Why do arco charge 15 cents less per gallon? Because there fuel sits for weeks and it becomes lower octane. I'm no chemist but this is easy to understand

Obviously, you are not a chemist.  If fuel sits for a very long time in a tank it will degrade if anything, and not just become lower octane gas.  You treat lower octane rating gas like if it is lesser quality of fuel.  It is just as clean and refined as premium.  The only difference is how easily it ignites.

Quote from: tinindian;49375
Some of you guys should go work for BMW because it's obvious that you are way smarter that the top engineers that BMW hires to design there cars. It's amazing that these terribly designed cars still have such a following 17 years after they were first sold.

They state premium fuel because these are high compression engines with no knock sensors. While you may not always hear the detonations that does not mean it's not happening. You may not have engine failure in the next few thousand miles that does not mean your engine is not getting damaged. Even if you are not one to push the limit you probably still put the car under load enough to cause pinging, for instance going up a hill in a high gear.

If it's recommended to run premium that's what you should be running. If you want to save $200 a year sell your e30 and buy a Corolla, my wife's gets way better mileage than my e30 does and Toyota recommends regular fuel.

I would love to work for BMW and that is definitely a possibility with my career path.

BMW engineers are obviously very smart and did a very good job engineering the E30 3-series.  Often though, they are criticized for including overly complex engineering at the expensive of long term reliability/maintenance/cost.  Also of course, it takes time to figure out some mistakes and technology does change.

Another reason that 91 octane fuel is recommended is that back when the E30 was produced, gasoline quality was not nearly what it is compared today.  The E30 was produced towards the end of the era when gasoline was being transitioned from leaded to unleaded.

I would guess that now, with current technology, you could run 89 octane or "Plus" gasoline and it would perform the same as 91 octane or "premium" back in the 80's

quinn11m20

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2008, 10:19:49 AM »
What!!! MKODAMA. do know what the CAT is for? I was designed for high temp. Its a ceramic block. It burns the unburned hydrocarbons to lower emissions. Higher octane fuel, wrapped headers and a hot cat will drastically lower hydrocarbon emissions. I wrapped my headers to take the heat out of the engine bay and put it down the exhaust to the cat to lower engine bay temp. Cooler engine bay temp means colder, more dense air for the engine. The Internal Combustion Engine was designed to burn oxygen. Fuel was just the catalyst to push the pistons. Fuel octane is very important. 87 89 93. 87 is for a lot of city driving and low compression engines. 89 is for mid-performance city, freeway driving. 93 is for high performance engines with high compression and good freeway driving. Look at Europe, In England (UK) they have one specific octane 95. The rest of Europe usually follows suit. So my point is this. High heat, high octane, AND A HOT CATALYTIC CONVERTER, does increase performance. The internal combustion engine is at its best at high RPM and High Temp. OK. You need to look at a cross section of a CAT.  Maybe then you will understand things better.

tjts1

  • Legendary
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 1109
    • View Profile
How many of you run 87 octane fuel?
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2008, 12:23:20 PM »
Quote from: quinn11m20;49392
I wrapped my headers to take the heat out of the engine bay and put it down the exhaust to the cat to lower engine bay temp.
Enjoy your cracked header. You won't have to wait long.

I had no idea so many dedicated gear heads were completely clueless about octane and how it effects the spark ignition engine. I am in awe. High octane = high exhaust temperature? 87 octane  is for city driving? Are you serious?

LOL
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 12:26:48 PM by tjts1 »
Sold but not forgotten

This is whats wrong with your car.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
[/thread]