Author Topic: intake manifold for supercharger (Read 6500 times)

bmwcoupe23 · « **on:** September 05, 2007, 04:29:30 AM »

hello

i decided to blow up my m42 a little. the main problem is the intake manifold. i�m not sure whether i should take a eaton m62 or m45 supercharger but i think for the intake it doesn�t make a big difference. downing atlanta isn�t answering my mails so i have to get the intake from somewhere else or make a custom one. has someone got an idee where i can get an intake for an eaton except downing atlanta or any tips for a custom made?
by the way whats the difference between putting the throttle body before or after the supercharger? i once heard it is much louder to put it after the sc and before the manifold.

br

bmwcoupe23

haledj · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2007, 10:24:23 AM »

I am currently doing research/computation for a fluid analysis design project for an intake manifold for an m45 on an m42.

I don’t know if you want any details about this, and I haven't released any reports yet so I’m not sure what I could share at this point

However for a positive displacement blower like an Eaton you need the throttle body before the supercharger.

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2007, 02:17:44 AM »

Quote from: haledj;33214

I am currently doing research/computation for a fluid analysis design project for an intake manifold for an m45 on an m42.

I don’t know if you want any details about this, and I haven't released any reports yet so I’m not sure what I could share at this point

However for a positive displacement blower like an Eaton you need the throttle body before the supercharger.

I still think that a Eaton M62 whould make minor heat than M45 at same flow... and it has more reserve of psi without be not efficienty...
IMHO the M62 is better on a M42/M44 engine, repeat, only IMHO...

And yes, the TB need to stay before the SC. It can be done even with TB after the SC, but there will be other problems... (noise is huge, tried

, and the sc will wear faster)

bmwcoupe23 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2007, 12:29:37 PM »

thanks for the answers! i also heard about that the m62 produces minor heat than the m45.
did u ever see the supercharger kit from KO performance? they use the lower part of the DISA intake manifold of an e36 m42 and only made an adapter to fit the m62 to the manifold. i think this should be very easy to make it on your own and alot easier than to make a cast intake like the one from DA.
the main advantage of using the lower DISA intake is that the stock fuel rail can be used and ,according to KO performance, the motor will produce slightly more torque because of the longer intake tract.
are there any other ideas how a costum intake could be look like?

mfg bmwcoupe23

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2007, 04:18:55 PM »

Quote from: bmwcoupe23;33309

thanks for the answers! i also heard about that the m62 produces minor heat than the m45.
did u ever see the supercharger kit from KO performance? they use the lower part of the DISA intake manifold of an e36 m42 and only made an adapter to fit the m62 to the manifold. i think this should be very easy to make it on your own and alot easier than to make a cast intake like the one from DA.
the main advantage of using the lower DISA intake is that the stock fuel rail can be used and ,according to KO performance, the motor will produce slightly more torque because of the longer intake tract.
are there any other ideas how a costum intake could be look like?

mfg bmwcoupe23

All that you wrote is correct, but it's all theory...

Quote

i think this should be very easy to make it on your own and alot easier than to make a cast intake like the one from DA.

Wait:D
It look soo simple... but when you'll see your belt not aligned by even only 0,5mm and and not centered in the pulleys or belt with abnormal movement... you will see that is not so easy:D

I know... I was doing a supercharger setup and had it running too... but there were some issues...
1) if TB is after the supercharger cops will kill you istantaneously when they'll hear a noise like that...

and on my m44 e36 I had space issues to fit TB before S/C
2) you MUST have a great set of tools and hardware... MIG/TIG....
3) you MUST have so much time for design it, get it running, drive it and upgrade every things that will give you problems...
4) you MUST have always a replacement belt with you...

5) supercharger noise is niiiiice:cool: and the low revs torque too, not to mention the lag not present
6) here modify engines is not legal... hide a turbo is easy if bottom mount... try to hide a supercharger:p
7) prepare to spend always more money that you thought at start...

you'll gain experience doing a custom supercharger kit... if you like to work in cars.
9) you need to pray god that the belt will not come off at 100+ mph (tried this too

)
If you want all those things, go with it...

This is only my opinion...
In my opinion a right sized turbo for what power/torque/@ revs you want is better.. minor headaches and minor R&D...
this is the route that I'm doing now...

bye

bmwcoupe23 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2007, 07:43:14 AM »

hello

you have some pretty good arguments

so what you are trying me to say is that i either should take a complete s/c kit like the one from DA or install a turbo?
i had the idea of a turbo in the past but i have a problem with it.
to get about 180whp at 6500 ,like the DASC kit, with a turbo i will need a turbo which will produce around 220 lb*ft of torque at the crank at about 3000 but with the s/c kit i will only have about 190 lb*ft at the crank as my peak torque.
so what i think is that a lower peak torque for the same whp means a minor middel preasure in the cylinders and a minor stress for the drive train.
of course more torque is nice but i think about 180-190 lb*ft at the crank should be enough for the weight of a e36 m42 for daily driving.
besides you will have a much more constat torque curve with a s/c than with a turbo. turbos are pretty cool to get much torque und hp but in my opinion for around 50% of more hp a s/c would be better for the m42.

on the other hand a turbo kit is easier to install but what about the ECU? do you have an update for the stock ecu ,as i saw you are going to use a turbo in your m44, or will you use a free programmable unit as addition to the stock ecu?

bg bmwcoupe23

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2007, 08:36:25 AM »

Quote from: bmwcoupe23;33412

hello

you have some pretty good arguments
so what you are trying me to say is that i either should take a complete s/c kit like the one from DA or install a turbo?
i had the idea of a turbo in the past but i have a problem with it.
to get about 180whp at 6500 ,like the DASC kit, with a turbo i will need a turbo which will produce around 220 lb*ft of torque at the crank at about 3000 but with the s/c kit i will only have about 190 lb*ft at the crank as my peak torque.
so what i think is that a lower peak torque for the same whp means a minor middel preasure in the cylinders and a minor stress for the drive train.
of course more torque is nice but i think about 180-190 lb*ft at the crank should be enough for the weight of a e36 m42 for daily driving.
besides you will have a much more constat torque curve with a s/c than with a turbo. turbos are pretty cool to get much torque und hp but in my opinion for around 50% of more hp a s/c would be better for the m42.

on the other hand a turbo kit is easier to install but what about the ECU? do you have an update for the stock ecu ,as i saw you are going to use a turbo in your m44, or will you use a free programmable unit as addition to the stock ecu?

bg bmwcoupe23

you had same ideas that I had two-three years ago:D
I though that a turbo will be bad for a daily driven car...etc..

for the ecu there isn't so much difference between what is needed for a turbo in respect to a s/c...
personally I have a piggyback that will be used with 36lbs injectors that I have. I'll map it with the help of a Innovate LC-1 wideband and a MAP sensor, so will be mapped for manifold pressure and not for throttle load...

and finally yes, I'm saying you to go with DASC or custom turbo... because for me a DIY supercharger is VERY VERY difficult to have it running perfectly, a custom turbo is so much easier, because all major components are only to buy, not to build like brackets for supercharger.... big problem and MOST important in S/Cs is align them properly... ask DASC how many km a nd years of tests they've done before sell they and reach current affidability levels...

-DISCLAIMER:
it's only my opinion... car is your, and if you have the knowledge and ability to build a custom s/c do it!

EDIT: for do a good DIY S/C kit, you'll need CNC machines...

bmwcoupe23 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2007, 08:09:51 AM »

hello

i have a cnc machine and can also make custom carbon parts BUT i think you are right that would be a hell of a work and probably a bottomless hole. maybe i was too motivated at the beginning that i didn�t saw the whole amount of such a project!
i�ve read much about turbos in bmws and other streetcars the last days and i must say i like the idea of a turbo more and more, but what about the modifications at the m42/m44? lower compression, other pistons, more maintainable bearings.....at how much whp or torque do i need those changes in a m42/m44 motor when i fit in a turbo? nearly every guy i spoke to had an other opinion about that. so i�m interessted in yours!

gr

bmwcoupe23

nuvolarossa · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2007, 10:24:24 AM »

hi, the engine's modifications needed for turbo are the near same with S/C if they are at same boost. Your m42 is great for turbo, it has forged parts, and until 10psi should be ok, if your compression is good, and if you'll give it a good fuel amount, to have great AFRs...