Author Topic: your recommended oil  (Read 10333 times)

sheepdog

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your recommended oil
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2007, 11:17:57 PM »
Quote from: jpod999;28178
So yes or no on synthetic?  My car has never had synthetic before.
From what I have seen, it really makes little difference, I have noticed the lights come on about 1000 miles sooner is all. It did not really run much different.
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

JHZR2

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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2007, 08:01:12 AM »
Quote from: sheepdog;28180
From what I have seen, it really makes little difference, I have noticed the lights come on about 1000 miles sooner is all. It did not really run much different.


Irrelevant.  The lights in n E30 are not chemistry specific, and are more of a glorified startup and rev counter.  Some of the new OLMs are syn vs. conventional oil tuned, but even them are not doing any real, active measuring of the fundamental properties of a base oil or its additive package.

JMH

JHZR2

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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2007, 08:05:11 AM »
Quote from: jpod999;28178
So yes or no on synthetic?  My car has never had synthetic before.


Personally, I wouldnt worry about going to a syn oil.  Ive converted a number of our cars at 160-230k miles, and hae not had issues.  

If a leak forms, due to the syyn oil cleaning junk around seals that are compromised, guess what?  you had a buildup of dirt in your engine, and the oil cleaned it.  Is that bad?  Does it mean that your seals were actually in GOOD condition?  I think not.  And, if there is junk around your seals, you can bet that there is impacted dirt around the rings too.

I would change to synthetic, and be glad if it shows a leak that you can then fix - its pointing out weakness in your system.

If you are really against syn oils, I would go with rotella 5w-40 synthetic, which is only a group III synthetic,m so it has less cleaning and seal swell chemistry, and thus has a lesser probability of causing any sort of an issue anyway.  

If you want to be cheap and do nothing but pour oil in it, buy chevron delo 400 15w-40, and be done with it.  This is the best of the conventional oils.

JMH

rhogg

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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2007, 12:44:35 PM »
Actually cleaning out build up can be bad - you are changing an existing operating property and as a result unexpected results can occur.  Having said that I think high detergent oils are the way to go.

IMHO the difference between traditional and synthetics comes down to cost and service frequency.   If you change your oil often there is nothing wrong with traditional oils and you will save money.

I use GTX in the 91 318 changed every 3K; Syntec since new in my MINI changed every 6K, and Syntec in my 325 every 6K.  I use these intervals because they are 5 and 10K kilometers in the Great White North and thus easier to remember when to change.

A couple of additional benefits from synthetics are they do have longer shelf life which can be handy in low mileage vehicles, and the viscosity range is larger which also allows for less need for a change.

The M42 get GTX every 3K or 3 months and the viscosity is 20w50 in the summer and 10w40 in winter. These are the manual's temp dependent recommendations.

tjts1

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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2007, 03:56:06 PM »
I switched 3 cars from regular to synthetic oil at over 100k miles and never had any problems. I keep the synthetic oil in for 7.5k to 10k miles depending on oil consumption.
Sold but not forgotten

This is whats wrong with your car.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
[/thread]

JHZR2

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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2007, 04:48:05 PM »
Quote from: rhogg;28343
Actually cleaning out build up can be bad - you are changing an existing operating property and as a result unexpected results can occur.  Having said that I think high detergent oils are the way to go.
 

The results obtaned are never bad in terms of the engine - only good.  The most common claim is the opening of a leak.  The leak was always there, the issue with the seal was always there.  It is merely a fact of the removal of sludge and dirt that the leak opened up.  Is this bad?  No, considering that this means that your engine was dirty and now is getting cleaner.  By the way, your reccomendation of a high detercent oil is nearly the same.  A strong detergent/dispersant package in a fully formulated motor oil will solve and remove/suspend junk just the same as a synthetic basestock.  The rates of doing this may differ, but the phenomena is the same.  Diesel oils, given their design to actively suspend soot, are what one would classify as a high detergent oil.  None of the standard passenger car oils would be.  Further, any so-called unexpected results (such as having a leak and running low/out of oil) are the result of poor PM/recordkeeping and check-ups of one's vehicles condition.  This is a fault on the driver, not the oil or the machine.

Quote from: rhogg;28343
IMHO the difference between traditional and synthetics comes down to cost and service frequency.   If you change your oil often there is nothing wrong with traditional oils and you will save money.


Agreed.  Other than some specific situations, it is poor economy to do 3 or even 5000 mile OCIs on syn oil.  

Quote from: rhogg;28343
I use GTX in the 91 318 changed every 3K; Syntec since new in my MINI changed every 6K, and Syntec in my 325 every 6K.  I use these intervals because they are 5 and 10K kilometers in the Great White North and thus easier to remember when to change.


You coud liklely extend those rates, motor oil has come a long way, and it generally will hold up (syn that is) in excess of 7500 miles with negligible difference in wear rates from when new.

Quote from: rhogg;28343
A couple of additional benefits from synthetics are they do have longer shelf life which can be handy in low mileage vehicles, and the viscosity range is larger which also allows for less need for a change.

Shelf life is about the same for all oils.  The issue is generally additives falling out of sollution in time.  In that regard, conventional oils are actually better... But this is a virtue that is analyzed in years, and even in seldomly used cars, years is not a good duration for oil changes, due to the buildu of moisture. One place where syn oils are more stable is in terms of 'shear stability', or the reduction of viscosity with respect to use.  Syn oils need little to no viscosity index improvers, so they stay in grade much easier.  Syn oils are the best in this regard, HD diesel oils, such as the key 15w-40 oils and 5w-40 oils from the manufacturers are the next best, with standard engine oils last in the hierarchy, and still often showing issues.

Quote from: rhogg;28343
The M42 get GTX every 3K or 3 months and the viscosity is 20w50 in the summer and 10w40 in winter. These are the manual's temp dependent recommendations.


Thats a fine choice - that said, motor oils have come a long way from API SG and 1991 chemistries.  Though people like to make blanket statements about why the world is moving to lighter oils, please consider that everyone, BMW included has moved to lighter oils over time.  It is not because there has been a significant change in tolerances and build quality in engines, changes in metalurgy, fuel economy, etc.  While all of these things are good concepts, and partially true, the key thing to realize is that whether via requirement push or technology pull, the chemistries have improved so much so that a significantly lighter, more stable oil can be put into a significantly more power dense machine with all other things (build quality, toplerances, etc.) equal.  This is thanks to the advancement in the shear stability, oxidative stability and enhanced performance of the additives put into fully formulated motor oils.

I hope this helps and is informative.

JMH
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 04:50:37 PM by JHZR2 »

JHZR2

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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2007, 04:52:55 PM »
Quote from: tjts1;28358
I switched 3 cars from regular to synthetic oil at over 100k miles and never had any problems. I keep the synthetic oil in for 7.5k to 10k miles depending on oil consumption.


Of our nine cars, ranging from plymouth to MB, 120 hp at full boost diesel to 320 hp twin turbo cars, they all run syn and none leak or have any consumption.  We have converted four at over 160k miles (one of them was done at exactly 200k), and the rest at over 60k miles, none showing any problems.  

Yours is proof that a lot of the syn oil issues are wive's tales for well maintained machines.  And, some that see consumption also see it go away to zero after 5-10k miles.

JMH

Frankie

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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2007, 05:08:54 PM »
Castro Magnatech
 GTX 5-40

rhogg

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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2007, 07:35:37 PM »
Quote from: JHZR2;28361
The results obtaned are never bad in terms of the engine - only good.  ...   ... Further, any so-called unexpected results (such as having a leak and running low/out of oil) are the result of poor PM/recordkeeping and check-ups of one's vehicles condition.  This is a fault on the driver, not the oil or the machine.


I really don't know if a change to synthetic is likely to cause leaks, but being conservative, gradual change is better than sudden change :rolleyes:   In my case I'm already leaking - lower timing case (more of an ooze), given the profile gasket is one of the risk points in the M42, I'm not going to change to synthetic until I've been in there and replaced the gaskets and inspected the profile gasket.  

The goal is to extend life and avoid expensive maintenance, sometimes that includes doing things that are not theoretically optimum ie my service intervals are easy to remember rather than the most efficient.


Quote from: JHZR2;28361
...that said, motor oils have come a long way from API SG and 1991 chemistries.  ...   I hope this helps and is informative.

JMH



Indeed... ...it is.   For me the cost benefit means synthetic for the new dino for the old.  This saves me about $50CDN a year so in 200 years I can afford a new MM engine! :)

JHZR2

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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2007, 10:37:50 PM »
Quote from: rhogg;28371
I really don't know if a change to synthetic is likely to cause leaks, but being conservative, gradual change is better than sudden change :rolleyes:  


We always changed the oil early the first syn fill, but didnt do anything else... worked fine.  On my MB, which I changed at 200k, I did so 50/50 the first time.  

I'd agree with the desire to go it slow, and take the precautions in the name of being careful and economical, etc.

cheers!

Best,

JMH

jpod999

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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2007, 01:57:21 PM »
Alright, so I think I am going to go pick up some 5w-40 synthetic today.  Hopefully I get no leaks.


Thanks to Brad at http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7567/ticevalleysiggv7.jpg">Shutterflick.com for editing the sig.

gearheadE30

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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2007, 05:16:43 PM »
I'm about to follow in your tracks, hope to hear of the results soon.

1991 318is Turbo
1989 Caprice Classic Wagon named Humphrey
1979 Suzuki GS750E

jpod999

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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2007, 09:51:01 PM »
Quote from: gearheadE30;28513
I'm about to follow in your tracks, hope to hear of the results soon.


LOL I went to Carquest yesterday and they didn't have any 5W-40 at all.  Gonna have to head to Napa now.


Thanks to Brad at http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7567/ticevalleysiggv7.jpg">Shutterflick.com for editing the sig.

achtungE30

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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2007, 08:28:26 AM »
This should be interesting! I thought it was not a great idea to switch to synthetic once the engine reaches 100k and dyno oil was used through its life?

Let us know if the motor does quiet down some also!

- 91 318is (loves to warm-start-stall
- 08 135i European Delivery 9/18/08

jpod999

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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2007, 10:57:52 PM »
Alright well change of plans.  I was away for the weekend and my dad got a case of regular 10w-30 in the meantime.  So I put that in today...sorry to the people that wanted to see the results of my swap to synthetic.


Thanks to Brad at http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7567/ticevalleysiggv7.jpg">Shutterflick.com for editing the sig.