170-180 bhp possible with out boost?

Author Topic: 170-180 bhp possible with out boost?  (Read 13774 times)

Gunni

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2007, 08:28:36 AM »
flywheel = brake = crank, don´t mix that ever with power to the wheel

rhogg

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Just cause you wanted to know...
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2007, 09:46:00 AM »
From answer.com

Brake horsepower (bhp) is the measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump and other auxiliaries. Thus the prefix "brake" refers to where the power is measured: at the engine's output shaft, as on an engine dynamometer. The actual horsepower delivered to the driving wheels is less. An engine would have to be retested to obtain a rating in another system. The term "brake" refers to the original use of a band brake to measure torque during the test (which is multiplied by the engine RPM and a scaling constant to give horsepower).


hp (SAE)
In the United States the term "bhp" fell into disuse after the American Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) recommended manufacturers use hp (SAE) to indicate the net power of the engine, given that particular car's complete engine installation. It measures engine power at the flywheel, not counting drivetrain losses.


SAE-certified horsepower
In 2005, the Society of Automotive Engineers introduced a new test procedure (J2723) for engine horsepower and torque. The procedure eliminates some of the areas of flexibility in power measurement, and requires an independent observer present when engines are measured. The test is voluntary, but engines completing it can be advertised as "SAE-certified".

Different strokes for different folks :D

sheepdog

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2007, 04:32:47 PM »
Actually, I looked into this further.

It has NOTHING to do with where it is measured.

Brake horsepower is how it is measured (clutch and lever). It is a type of dyno. It can be done at the wheels, or the crank, or a driveshaft, it does not really specify.


Kind of like how many people think a supercharger is only a blower.
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D. Clay

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2007, 07:13:31 PM »
How about this for a basic hop-up:
1) match the ports in the head and in the manifolds to the gaskets and polish.
2) Add a chip
3) Tweak the fuel system
4) Add reground cams
What would the cost of these mods be and would any other parts be required? What would the estimated power increase be relative to the BMW published figure of 134 or 136 HP?

sheepdog

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 10:21:39 AM »
Quote from: D. Clay;21319
How about this for a basic hop-up:
1) match the ports in the head and in the manifolds to the gaskets and polish.
2) Add a chip
3) Tweak the fuel system
4) Add reground cams
What would the cost of these mods be and would any other parts be required? What would the estimated power increase be relative to the BMW published figure of 134 or 136 HP?

You might squeak out 15-20hp at most.

If you regrind that cam too much and you will need new springs. Hydraulic lifters are finicky about spring rates. Also, if you raise the rpm limit, and hit it too often for too long, do not expect the bottom end to stay together long.

You could get away with all of that for probably $2000. IF you find the right combo.

BMW made damn sure it was not easy to make this car outperform the 325 because had they done a few things different, it would have. Done right, for no more money, this car could have outperformed the M3, which would have really screwed up BMW's lineup.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 10:24:37 AM by sheepdog »
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sheepdog

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 11:05:33 AM »
Maybe it is time to write an article on the m42 regarding power.
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kowalski

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 11:24:37 AM »
Quote from: sheepdog;21352
You might squeak out 15-20hp at most.

If you regrind that cam too much and you will need new springs. Hydraulic lifters are finicky about spring rates. Also, if you raise the rpm limit, and hit it too often for too long, do not expect the bottom end to stay together long.

You could get away with all of that for probably $2000. IF you find the right combo.

BMW made damn sure it was not easy to make this car outperform the 325 because had they done a few things different, it would have. Done right, for no more money, this car could have outperformed the M3, which would have really screwed up BMW's lineup.


could htis explain valve tick that came about exactly the same time as new cams?
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D. Clay

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Fer sure!
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2007, 11:34:45 AM »
Quote from: sheepdog;21358
Maybe it is time to write an article on the m42 regarding power.
No doubt about it. I have 200,000 miles on my motor and will be looking at doing something about it soon. There's so much info in different places that it definitely warrants a separate thread. With 160 HP this would be such a great car.

shellback

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2007, 03:47:41 PM »
In order to keep costs at a minimum and achieving some numbers like that, do we need to go FI?
Thoughts?
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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2007, 04:48:03 PM »
Quote from: sheepdog;21352
BMW made damn sure it was not easy to make this car outperform the 325 because had they done a few things different, it would have. Done right, for no more money, this car could have outperformed the M3, which would have really screwed up BMW's lineup.


What exactly could they have done differently?  Off the top of my head, I am guessing:
- MAF
- More agressive cam
- Better software

What else could they have done for no more $?

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gundy318

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2007, 07:16:42 PM »
Quote from: sheepdog;21101
You can go to a 1.9 by boring it, which will get you around 180hp, thats  probably another $500.


so with an engine bore do you need new pistons too? what all is needed and whats the cost estimate? i'm not very educated on this stuff

mikko

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2007, 12:25:18 AM »
i´ve thought bolt-on cams+chip package which claims 163hv, system costs 820€
they say that no on street use, maybe no low end torque

e9nine

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2007, 05:19:34 AM »
Quote from: sheepdog;21352
BMW made damn sure it was not easy to make this car outperform the 325 because had they done a few things different, it would have. Done right, for no more money, this car could have outperformed the M3, which would have really screwed up BMW's lineup.

On a track an m42 can outperform an e30m3 and a 325iS given mismatched drivers or somewhat equal drivers. Hp and Tq don't make the car fast, it's the driver.

If you're talking of pure drag racing from 0-60 a STOCK m42 is NOT that far off from a 325iS with the basic chip and fresh ignition components as we have seen proven several times. Add cams and a lighter flywheel and you're going to be ahead of an m20b25.

Performance is relative. For what the m42 offers, it delivers a nice "omg he's passing me" expression on the face of m20b25 owners.

fabe

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2007, 08:16:17 AM »
the 140bhp that M42 has to offer is a safe compromise between daily driveability and outright performance... most factory standard engines from most carmakers has something between 120-150 bhp except for the Honda's VTECs or the Toyota's VVTL-i with factory claimed 190bhp.. Both high revvers...
Point is, to get 180bhp on the M42 will require quite some work and higher rev would definitely help.

Alpine003

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170-180 bhp possible with out boost?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2007, 09:12:35 AM »
Quote from: e9nine;21420
On a track an m42 can outperform an e30m3 and a 325iS given mismatched drivers or somewhat equal drivers. Hp and Tq don't make the car fast, it's the driver.

If you're talking of pure drag racing from 0-60 a STOCK m42 is NOT that far off from a 325iS with the basic chip and fresh ignition components as we have seen proven several times. Add cams and a lighter flywheel and you're going to be ahead of an m20b25.

Performance is relative. For what the m42 offers, it delivers a nice "omg he's passing me" expression on the face of m20b25 owners.


x2