ITB's info/projects

Author Topic: ITB's info/projects  (Read 147318 times)

asubimmer

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« on: February 01, 2007, 10:59:15 AM »
There seems to be a lot of talk on here about ITB's and what will work etc.  If you have any info or plans share up.
///Alpinweiß II 24v 91\' 318is, 2004 Yamaha R6 SE for sale, 00\' VW GTi, 83\' El Camino BURNED, 2001 P71sold, 92\' Miatasold
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tim_s

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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 03:23:04 PM »
there's my ITBs, but they've been done to death on here really by now? Can post pics again if reqd?

2.1 200bhp, 175ft/lbs 318is
E46 330ci daily

///Motorsport

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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 03:45:39 PM »
Quote from: tim_s;18631
there's my ITBs, but they've been done to death on here really by now? Can post pics again if reqd?

maybe a pic to get 'em interested. This is somehting I would love to do very badly. Can i do it when I go turbo? I say that like I actually have plans to.... I need extra money!!!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 11:43:56 PM by asubimmer »

BrandC

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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 09:26:47 PM »
I want to hear about ITB projects, ESPECIALLY what engine management is being used and fuel/ignition maps to boot.

Variance

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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 09:52:10 PM »
Quote from: ///Motorsport;18634
Links shoudl be sufficent, maybe a pic to get 'em ionterested.  This is somehting I would love to do very badly.  Can i do it when I go turbo?  I say that like I actually have plans to.... I need extra money!!!

You can run ITB's with a turbo, but it's pretty much pointless. Once the intake tract is put under pressure, any gains from ITB's would be negated.

asubimmer

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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 11:21:18 PM »
yeah tim if you would post the info here.  I just want one quick and easy place for people to look up it up.
///Alpinweiß II 24v 91\' 318is, 2004 Yamaha R6 SE for sale, 00\' VW GTi, 83\' El Camino BURNED, 2001 P71sold, 92\' Miatasold
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2002maniac

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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 08:37:38 AM »
Quote from: Variance;18670
You can run ITB's with a turbo, but it's pretty much pointless. Once the intake tract is put under pressure, any gains from ITB's would be negated.


That's not entirely true. A motor that flows better will make more power period with the same amount of boost.

Alpine003

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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2007, 01:15:49 PM »
Quote from: 2002maniac;18690
That's not entirely true. A motor that flows better will make more power period with the same amount of boost.


The reason why the Nissan Skylines uses ITB's stock on their turbo cars.;)

Obviously, the gains can be minimal or negligable depending on the design/specs of the entire system. It also adds additional cost and r&d so you don't see it on many cars.

tim_s

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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 03:53:32 PM »
OK, my setup used modded 50mm bodies, new fuel rail and a custom vacuum rail, fibreglass plenum (this was the bulk of the work and a real pita), 3" MAF, 24lb injectors, M3 IAT sensor, 76mm K+N, S14 throttle clip, veedub aux air valve controlled by MS , and prob a load more stuff I've forgotten.
For management I used Msns-e with wasted spark on the factory coilpack, and MAF, not Alpha-N or MAP unlike most with MS. Many reasons for this, not worth getting into here. Mapping with a wideband took the best part of 6 months, and still in traffic (esp coming off throttle), warmup and idle my MS setup is not proving as good as the factory motronic; i do run a performance inlet cam which doesn't help I guess.
I used m44 timing map for reference and as the basemap for timing. Fuel economy on motorway runs and in traffic is about the same as with motronic/standard inlet, contrary to what some people will tell you regarding big throttle bodies and driving in traffic. I cruise at 17:1 and on WOT use 13:1, hasn't been optimised on the rollers yet. I'm actually back on the standard inlet and motronic (with budget mods to make it work with the 2.1!) for the moment, weighing up whether to keep the ITBs or not.
When I built them the car was mainly a toy and MS was great, whereas now i'm doing a lot of miles in traffic and on the motorway where the factory injection and throttle are actually better than the ITBs (quieter at 85mph+ and smoother in traffic/better idle). Most of my problems lie with me not being as happy with MS as with motronic for daily use, not with the ITBs themselves, which worked great. throttle pedal feel was a bit vague compared to the standard setup, but the throttle reponse, noise, and the power delivery esp at higher rpms was brilliant.
Will find some more recent pics when I get a moment, here are some old ones.



2.1 200bhp, 175ft/lbs 318is
E46 330ci daily

cecotto

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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 04:08:38 PM »
Tim.

Very nice looking setup, cant wait for the extra images.

Your setup looks cool with the airbox. I have been thinking about fabricating one for my setup... But i need to finish the engine before taking on any tasks...

Do you know how long your setup is from tract entrance to valveseat ?  And how is your low end torque ?

My Dbilas setup is 27cm as i remember, measured crudely with a carpenters steel measuring band.  I'm a bit concerned with the length so i might have tofigure something out about this..
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E30 M3

tim_s

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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2007, 12:06:32 PM »
hi steffen,
I'm going to have to re-measure my inlet for you. I did know its length but I've forgotten. I just got a tape measure on the bodies and the trumpets the total length there is (very approximately) 25cm, so yes it's much longer than the dbilas setup. The trumpets are probably wider though, of course.
low end torque is very similar to factory, but it feels better because of the throttle response and the noise!

2.1 200bhp, 175ft/lbs 318is
E46 330ci daily

dino245

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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 11:53:39 AM »
I am sure may people have heard of using the Hayabusa throttle bodies and wondered what they would look like spaced to the BMW bore centers of 91mm and not the Suzuki factory 80mm.

Well I have purchased a set that I will be using with my new engine and Haltech E8. Here are some picture of just the throttle bodies. I still a long road ahead and much to fab. I am using 26.85lb/hr @3bar injectors from a VW 1.8t At the 4 bar I will be using thay flow 31lb/hr enough for 200hp

mike85-325e

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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 04:02:50 PM »
definetly a n00b question but what are the advantages for using ITB's?

dino245

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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2007, 10:34:35 AM »
More air capacity and better throttle responce.

silverblades181

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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2007, 04:07:06 PM »
Quote from: mike85-325e;19826
definetly a n00b question but what are the advantages for using ITB's?


What Dino said. At higher rpms it permits more air to go into the engine and therefore fill the cylinders more efficiently.

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