Author Topic: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons  (Read 39226 times)

lambertius

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M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« on: January 19, 2016, 12:43:56 AM »
Hi Guys,

This is a two part post, a specific product review of the new RHD LTW Flywheel specifically for the BMW M42/4 and M50/2 BMW engines (no more sourcing rare M20 starter motors) and a general explanation for anyone who would want to run a LTW Flywheel in any car.

First off, I would like to disclose that I'm friends with the owner of RHD, I've worked closely with him bringing an ITB kit for the M42/4 engine to life ( more info here http://www.m42club.com/forum/index.php?topic=18442.0). That said, I did pay for all the parts I have from RHD.

Should I get a LTW Flywheel?

Yes.

I recently needed a new clutch for my car, and when I looked at options I looked at a full DMF, a Valeo DMF replacement (a solid flywheel of equal mass) and a LTW option (M20 Flywheel and the UUC LTW option). I ended up getting a Full DMF as I saw no benefit getting a heavy solid flywheel, the difficulty in sourcing an M20 starter (at least in AU was too high to justify) and the UUC option was paired with a heavy duty clutch.

My previous experiences with LTW options were always terrible. People tend to pair a lighter flywheel with a heavier clutch. When you do this your clutch becomes a button. It is terrible, and this is what deterred me from the UUC option. Having the clutch instantly engage on a track may be fine, but if you intend to live with your car it is a terrible idea. Over engineering your clutch is probably the biggest mistake anyone makes with setting up their car.

There is an persistent urban myth that lightening your flywheel will make your car harder to drive and this is categorically false. A hard clutch is hard to drive, a lightened flywheel is easy provided the clutch matches the engines power output.

The M42/4 Drive-train consumes ~25% of the engine power
(and this is similar with most modern cars) and lightening your flywheel will reduce this loss while under acceleration. Basically the lower the gear you're in the more power will reach the wheels while accelerating. This is due to the simple law of Newtonian Physics F=ma. The lower the flywheel mass, the higher the acceleration for the same force - your wheels spin up sooner - and I guaranteeit will be enough of a change for you to feel it in most cars up through 3rd gear.

So this begs the question Why was the flywheel so heavy to begin with and why a DMF from most manufacturers? The common statement is that it is due to noise - it isn't. There is extra noise associated with a solid flywheel (which I'll get to soon) but that isn't why they're used in almost all modern cars. The other myth is that it is easier to take off - which it isn't (this has probably been facilitated by silly clutch choices).

  • Air-conditioning
  • Shift time

That is why they use heavy DMF options. Air-conditioning in modern cars tends to range from 1/4hp-1hp. At idle in traffic your car may be making <10bhp. The air-conditioning compressor engaging can be enough to stall the engine between its power demand and the amount of energy required to spin it from zero RPM to its operating range. Think of a heavy flywheel as a battery for inertia, when the air-con engages it needs to spin up, and this sudden power demand can be partially supplied by the energy in the flywheel. It smooths out the engine at idle, that is the main goal of the DMF. The bigger the engine the less this becomes an issue as well as there can be enough mass in most engines above 2.0L to negate any risk of cutting out.

The heavier mass takes longer to spin down, so it allows for 'lazy rev matching'. Basically you have time to find your gear and get it in place - and if you match the mass correctly with the shift length the average time taken to shift will match well with the next gear RPM. It has nothing to do with taking off - in fact it is usually easier to take off with a LTW Flywheel because the power is so much more directly available in first gear. The extra stored energy of the heavier flywheel isn't used here since you 'ride' the clutch to take off for a smooth engagement anyway - your gradually coupling the drive line which makes no use of the stored energy.

So what is this extra noise?

A DMF is a tuned mass-damper system - like your suspension. They're typically matched to expected engine behaviour to dampen vibrations. They're considerably more effective than a sprung clutch. BUT most modern cars with have enough under-body insulation to completely wipe out the noise (which only happens when sitting in neutral at idle) so that it doesn't intrude the cabin. I can't hear it at all from inside my car. The noise is similar to a coffee grinder but a bit quieter, and I can only hear it from outside the car. A thicker transmission fluid will almost always reduce the noise here as well.

So to summarise:

  • More power available during acceleration
  • Easier to take off when paired with a sensible clutch
  • You will need to rev match - but if you're driving manual you should be doing this anyway
  • Yes it is louder but you won't hear it

The RHD Flywheel

It may be less of an issue overseas, but here the M20 starter motor is impossible to find so an M20 conversion is basically impossible so a native option is the way to go.



The flywheel only weighs 3.6kgs, with the total assembly being ~8kgs down from ~18kgs. A common remark about the LTW options is that going too light makes it harder to drive - and it really doesn't This flywheel is prefect for these cars, and I would recommend this over any standard clutch replacement for sure. Pairing this with an M20 clutch makes for a nice progressive transition.

Fitment was perfectly standard. The only issue encountered was with the flywheel bolts - with the flywheel being so thin the standard DMF bolts are too long. The solution was to use the Auto flex-plate bolts which were a perfect fit. No other adjustments were required.

That is pretty much my review - it fits perfectly and behaves exactly as stated above about why you should get a LTW flywheel. The only reason you would stick with the OEM option is if you are trying to get the softest most comfortable car imaginable. To be honest though, any increase in harshness is imperceptible - I really can't think of a justifiable reason for BMW to have used such a massive DMF for these cars. I notice the RPM dip in traffic when the air cuts in, but that is it.

Don't get a DMF

I can't say this enough match your clutch to your engine power and the car will be perfect to drive!

Delta

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 01:06:00 PM »
I've been looking into doing a lightweight flywheel in the near future so this interests me. I was looking for something with more holding force and a much lighter weight than stock. Ive seen the UUC stage 2 kit and was leaning towards that until now.

This flywheel is made for the m20 clutch and pressure plate though? Hmm, very interested...



Edit:
heres a link http://racehead.com.au/products-page/bmw/bmw-light-flywheel-m50-m52-m42-m44/

Uses an m20 clutch, which should be really nice! So you just used some bolts from an automatic flex plate? Are they about the same as the m20 flywheel bolts or are they shorter still?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 01:17:28 PM by Delta »

lambertius

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 05:16:29 AM »
I've been looking into doing a lightweight flywheel in the near future so this interests me. I was looking for something with more holding force and a much lighter weight than stock. Ive seen the UUC stage 2 kit and was leaning towards that until now.

This flywheel is made for the m20 clutch and pressure plate though? Hmm, very interested...



Edit:
heres a link http://racehead.com.au/products-page/bmw/bmw-light-flywheel-m50-m52-m42-m44/

Uses an m20 clutch, which should be really nice! So you just used some bolts from an automatic flex plate? Are they about the same as the m20 flywheel bolts or are they shorter still?

Yeah man, stay away from the high pressure clutches unless you have a lot more power. You need a bit of slip while engaging otherwise taking off is a bitch. The M20 clutch and the lightened wheel is like driving a normal car where you need to rev match a bit more.

bflan2001

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 02:22:19 PM »
Why are people saying the M20 starter is hard to find? Can't you buy them at any parts store or junkyard?

lambertius

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 06:30:16 AM »
Why are people saying the M20 starter is hard to find? Can't you buy them at any parts store or junkyard?

I can't say globally - but I know for sure the part isn't available new here, and it uses a specific tooth pitch not found on any other BMW starters so you can't get around not having the specific starter from a ~30yo car that is getting increasingly difficult to find parts for.

ryanjv

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 12:26:24 PM »
sorry if i misread or missed it here, but the RHD flywheel that was linked, that's not straight swap in to an M42 right?  it's an alternative to the M20 flywheel if you're doing the M20 conversion? so you still need the additional parts that would be required for an M20 flywheel replacement?

lambertius

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 04:25:05 AM »
sorry if i misread or missed it here, but the RHD flywheel that was linked, that's not straight swap in to an M42 right?  it's an alternative to the M20 flywheel if you're doing the M20 conversion? so you still need the additional parts that would be required for an M20 flywheel replacement?

Nope - straight up swap. It will go straight into an M42/4 series engine, nothing else required other than a matching clutch kit and some flywheel bolts. The clutch kit is any M20 clutch kit, and the bolts are the auto flex plate bolts. All standard parts that are easy to buy.

benz-tech

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2016, 10:41:50 PM »
I'd like to add that my flywheel ($40), + m20 starter ($20) + lightening ($100) + surfacing ($75)and balance ($portion of overall balance) cost more than $219!! If only this were available when I was sourcing one.  :-\
Pi is apparently the multiplier for your engine swap budget as well.

lambertius

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 02:15:43 AM »
I'd like to add that my flywheel ($40), + m20 starter ($20) + lightening ($100) + surfacing ($75)and balance ($portion of overall balance) cost more than $219!! If only this were available when I was sourcing one.  :-\

I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah - it isn't expensive, and because the best fit (unless you're making serious power) is just a standard M20 clutch, it still stays very low parts cost.

monty23psk

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 12:45:08 PM »
how much chattering takes place with this FW. I looked into it but I was too scared with the weight. I am looking for something in the 13lb range. I have a m20 at 18lb and would like to lighten it about 5lbs. Going to see cost vs getting this FW resurfaceds and lightening.
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lambertius

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 12:07:29 AM »
how much chattering takes place with this FW. I looked into it but I was too scared with the weight. I am looking for something in the 13lb range. I have a m20 at 18lb and would like to lighten it about 5lbs. Going to see cost vs getting this FW resurfaceds and lightening.

Chatter will only occur at idle whilst in neutral. It is pretty quiet even then - the hotter the day the louder it will be. The loudest I've heard it at still wasn't enough to hear anything inside the cabin - even with the air conditioning on. You can hear it pretty clearly from outside the car, but it definitely isn't 'loud' and as soon as you start moving and the gearbox is under load the sound is gone entirely.

I was concerned with the weight - but the weight has nothing to do with it, the ease of driving is entirely dictated by the clutch. If you over clutch your engine power you're gonna have a real bad time...

The flywheel just dictates how smooth/quiet the car idles with accessories on. I'll film the car idling for you when I get a chance.

Delta

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 09:00:36 PM »
So, I had ordered the RHD flywheel and a clutch and a few odds and ends a couple weeks ago and just got done swapping everything in today. Car started great, and the weight loss is instantly noticeable.

For some clarification, here is a small list of the parts I used...

RHD flywheel
M20 manual trans flywheel bolts
Spec clutch for m20
M42 pilot bearing
M20 throw out bearing

I laid the new and the old next to each other and decided that the 323i TOB was not needed, though I'm sure it would work fine. I did not take the spacer off of the stock flywheel either. The flywheel clears the block and trans in every way. All in all, it was a very direct swap. Can't wait to put it on the track later this year  ;)

johna

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2016, 06:29:31 PM »
The RHD website mentions you may have to extend the clutch slave rod. Does anyone know if you have to do this on a M42/M44? Or does it depend on the clutch kit used?
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Delta

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2016, 10:41:08 PM »
The RHD website mentions you may have to extend the clutch slave rod. Does anyone know if you have to do this on a M42/M44? Or does it depend on the clutch kit used?

I didn't have to do anything with my M42/g240 combo. Used the RHD flywheel with m20 Spec clutch and m20 throw out bearing (can also use 320i TOB). Make sure you get a pilot bearing for the m42 though.

robrez

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Re: M42/4 Native Lightened Flywheel - Going Lightweight Pros/Cons
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 01:00:30 PM »
Anymore reviews? I'm trying to decide between going with the RHD ltw or standing pat with the OEM m40 flywheel that I've already procured.