m44/m42 spec rally engine

Author Topic: m44/m42 spec rally engine  (Read 56889 times)

sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 11:43:13 AM »
Thanks for your reply.

Yeah i know only late ones comes with 6mm but im struggling to find one. But found quite a few e30 heads. Ill have a look into swapping the guides over.

I never realised that the seats have to get changed. For 35mm.

I didnt get your comment about 7000rpm and blowing up.

With the vac underdrive pulleys id have to run standard harmonic dampener?

Ive sent an email to go ahead with the 12:1 compression  pistons and lightened and balenced 88mm crank.

Cheers
Sion

Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2015, 01:49:33 PM »
Ok...choose whatever head you like but you're not going to swap any valve guides over! LOL  If you meant switching from 7mm to 6mm then that's ok but you always put new guides in no matter what. Just making sure that's what you were saying:-)  The guides are measured from the inside diameter not the outside. So you would need new 6mm valve guides with 6mm stock valves if you wanted them without any other change.

You don't have to change any seats if you don't want to. All depends on what you're doing to the head and how much $$$ you want to spend. All out race motor with no expense skipped then you could go 34mm on the intake and 31.5mm on the exhaust or bump up to whatever the S42 had which I think was 35mm/32mm.

Internet myth about the front hub blowing up at above 7K. I have yet to hear of one actual case of this. I've told the story about the SC M42 at the track at WGI running 7.5K all day long for years!! It's still running! LOL  And now MM running 7.7K? Don't you think they would have a warranty issue unless of course they redesigned it and put a new one on??  Anyone with a MM 2.1L want to chime in?

Sion, You should have a screaming motor when it's all put together... Good Luck!!

Cheers,
~Ralph




sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2015, 03:35:38 PM »
yeah I worded it wrong im afraid haha

Im still stuck on what cams to go for. Im not really that clued up to make a decision at the moment. any input? I Need something that will give me reasnable amount of torque.

The only thing im worried about with valves is that If I have issues (if thats such a thing) and that I have to for out more money to make all this work. As in huge amount of porting or I have to go standalone?

Also something I have been thinking of. will I gain from porting the tb? or is there larger/better standard throttle body that can be fitted?

how much sort of power am I looking at with all this do you guys reckon?
cheers
Sion

Ps Ill post some pics of whatthis engine will be going in soon with specs etc. hopefully engine will be coming out in a few weeks.
 

Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2015, 01:28:35 AM »
12:1 compression is a lot of torque!!!!!

M44 head does not like revs very much unlike the m42.

Cams that's a science, tell us what you want it to do and valve size, and opinions will flood in. Generally 250/250 copy of us s50 does the job.

Throttle body, don't bother yet, get her going again and then think itb, as you maf. A huge advantage!

Power is a funny thing, you could have lots up high but none down low, depends on a great deal of things.
Don't go for max it won't be useable!

My opinion anyway


Warsteiner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 21
  • Posts: 576
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2015, 06:52:58 AM »
Sion,
Designing the whole engine to work harmoniously is a science...LOL

Make sure you design things properly with things that are not easily removed and replaced...ie: Crank,Pistons,Rods,Valves

All the other stuff is like bolt ons which is easily swapped out with little effort...ie: TB, Cams

For cam choice there are a lot of variables as Darky has mentioned. Just make sure that your valve reliefs in your pistons are cut deep enough to allow for larger lift cams if you choose to go that route for clearance purposes. Also compression plays a large role in this as well. 

Get a complete plan together first and see how it looks on paper first. Then talk to your engine builder if you have one as well to see what they say.

It's very important to plan ahead and have it all thought out first. 8)  Makes things much easier.

Keep us updated....

Cheers,
~Ralph

sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »
Thanks for your replies guys very much appreciated!

So sort of an update, pistons and cranks have been ordered now should be here in a few weeks. Im going to get a engine builder to build the bottom end for me and get him to balence it all the same time as well as lightening a flywheel for it.

What are people running for rod shells and main bearings? standard? was looking at vac?

with this setup i can run 2.5mm lift at tdc which doesnt give me huge amounts of choice for cams.

So I am looking at possible http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/1301414.pdf

and with these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Supertech-Valves-BMW-S42-M42-1-8L-2-5L-1mm-Oversize-/250502451472

And this is what the engine will go in eventually!



Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 01:12:42 AM »
Hi Sion

That's alot of lift for oversized valves :o
Remember you will have a larger opening in the head now no need for such a large amount of lift.

I remember doing my head and I found that I had 2 different outside diameters of my valve guides, 0.40 something inches. (I hate imperial) I took them out measured them and brought new ones to match except instead of 7 mm guides I got i 6 mm guides for my new valves (internal diameter).

Cheers Rohan

sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2015, 06:12:17 PM »
darky, If i stayed with standard valves with 6mm stem would the cam be more adequate then? there is another cam on their site with similair duration but less lift if i remember would that suit it better then if i had oversized valves? thanks for your help!

what are my options with the crank trigger and crank sensor?

From what I have read they say go for m42 timing case, but it seems as if m42 timing cases are troublesome and weak?

So recieved pics of my kit the other night as well along with some spec of pistons, kit is currently in the post on the way to me

Pistons spec: weight 309g (im guessing with out pins and rings), height 28.2mm, 87mm diameter. Head gasket 1.45mm


Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2015, 01:53:24 AM »
Hi

Before we begin that picture is beautiful! Dam that crank is light, I love the look of new bits.

I'd go oversized valves that way you don't need the lift (as much) as lift is just another enemy, spring wear, breakage and also rpm. Your there may as well do it right! My valve guides were 0.495 and 0.493 outside and 6 mm inside of course. Knock yours out and measure buy to suit! Ask for m52 ones otherwise they will send 7 mm guides.

But don't buy cams yet either, you need to do a practice build with existing camshafts to see what will fit!
No point having massive cams if you just end up hitting Pistons with valves! :'(

As for timing case, go either late m42 timing guide, small oil pump.
Or m44 timing case timing guide, large oil pump but you need to make a bracket to hold crank sensor.

Cheers Rohan



sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2015, 05:19:53 PM »
Thanks for your input rohan! Much appreciated!!

Are there any standard bmw rod and main bearings which will do the job? Or get aftermarket ones?

Im back home after a weak away now so engine will be coming out this weekend!

Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2015, 05:59:11 PM »
Hi Sion

For excellent bearings go MM, xrallyparts (same ones) or vac autosports.
I think xrallyparts are the closest to you, you will probably get a scared when you see a price list though!
What connecting rods are you using?

Regards Rohan

sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2015, 06:10:14 PM »
Yeah ive been on xrallyparts website before, very expensive stuff on there!

Found some 'acl race bearings' which come to £160 around $190 probably for main and rod bearing.

M44 but will get whole bottom end balenced and arp bolts. Do people put arp bolts on crank or head?

Im also considering staying m44 head atm will save huge amount of hassle. Just have to somehow upgrade the m44 head.

sh123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 144
  • Freshly Registered!
    • View Profile

Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2015, 08:56:56 PM »
Yep that will do it nicely.

Darky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: m44/m42 spec rally engine
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2015, 08:59:08 PM »
When you get those bearings see if they fit straight in or whether the tap might be abit big?
Be interested to know.