M42/M44 ITB Kit Design

Author Topic: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design  (Read 298590 times)

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #375 on: March 02, 2021, 06:28:29 AM »
Yes! SSSquid is also a good one as bmwman91 mentions. I have spoken to them as well in the past. Jay is a good guy.

Cheers,
~Ralph

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #376 on: March 06, 2021, 02:43:31 AM »
So I've been enquiring about different cam options, and I got to speak to a fellow who is running a car for a race series in Queensland and what he has done is counter to all the rumours and unfinished threads that I've seen around. He has 230whp - about 280 at the crank! He is running E85, with 10.5:1 compression with a 290 degree intake cam with 13mm of lift. I've seen a video and a dyno and the car is actually making that power and pulls hard. What surprised me is the head is stock springs and retainers and is redlining at 8200RPM. This runs pretty counter to everything I've heard about the building these engines.

I'm currently thinking of getting a cam for the intake and possibly leaving the OEM exhaust cam. Most of the 'sports cams' that I've looked at are either the same or less degree than the OEM exhaust cam, the only thing that changes is lift. This is where I really wish I had a bit more money to throw at a project, there will be an ideal point for exhaust lift just like there is with intake lift, but generally speaking it is less than the intake lift and I would just like to mix and match cams and get a result. There are pretty good odds the OEM exhaust cam is already close to ideal. I really wish there were a bit more info or dyno results on people trying these things, not just talk about what people have tried!

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #377 on: March 06, 2021, 09:51:01 PM »
Those are impressive numbers for sure, especially based on what you say the general engine specs are. Honestly, I think that the M42 got much more of a negative reputation than it deserved. Early ones had issues with the profile gaskets and the timing chain tensioning system, but that was all worked out. The cheesy half-shell thrust bearing and upper oil pan bolts falling out were also sort of lame, but I am not even sure that the people making negative claims about the M42 were even aware of those! Really, I think that it was just overshadowed by the 6 cylinder models, and most of the aftermarket performance companies focused mainly on those since there were more of them (at least in the US), power gains were easier to realize, and I'd guess that more of those owners were interested in spending money on modifications (a LOT of E36 M42 owners were looking for an economical car that drove well, whereas a higher percentage of M5x owners were looking to go fast).

Cams...yeah, gotta be careful there. Too "much" cam and it'll only run well at high RPM, too little and...well, that's stock lol. It depends on what you are after. The grinds that MM has on mine are fantastic on the street. It makes totally usable torque at 2500RPM, feels good all the way to 4500RPM and then really takes off from there. I have the limiter set at ~7500RPM since at that point power has dropped off a little and I really don't need to run the engine any harder than that. See page 12 for some info on the grind they use. Actually, I think that they dialed back to a slightly less aggressive profile since they built mine, but I sure like them the way they are.
https://metricmechanic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/M42-Engine-Booklet.pdf

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #378 on: March 07, 2021, 07:02:13 PM »
You're exactly on point about my thoughts. It is all well and good to get a bit of gain, but at what cost? I mean that is why I did the ITB kit the way I did, I wanted a car that drove better overall.

I had a look at page 12 - are you running 11.4mm of lift with the OEM pistons?

The problem with cams is that there is no real academic way to predict the engine behaviour. There are good modelling and simulation tools these days but in reality they're an indication at best. As best I can tell, the OEM and aftermarket cams that are designed for the road are actually all relatively long duration, I stand by what I thought when I initially started this thread that BMW intentionally detuned this engine.

I think what catcams are doing with their sport cams is that they reduce the total duration on the exhaust, and increase it on the intake, but the ramp is increased so it has the same 'effective duration @1mm'. In that case they're making the cams more aggressive, but with less overlap so they're preserving idle and low end. If this is the case, the improvement comes mostly from higher lift from the intake cam. After speaking to cat cams, they have another set of cams they sell inbetween the sport and track cams, and the data sheet for is the only one of their street cams that has more overlap than the OEM cams, so I think that will be the one that takes off when it revs up with a bit of trade off in the low end since it is the only one that will crossflow more than the OEM. Because the OEM cam gears are slotted you could in theory run a couple of different combinations of cams and then change the timing anyway to change your torque curve. So again, I wish I could print some money like the reserve banks of the world and just do some testing!

I've asked catcams for a few more details about their cam setups, see if they have any modelling or results they can share, and then I'll make a decision. I'm leaning towards the more aggressive intake cam, and then clocking the OEM exhaust until I'm at a point where I'm happy with the amount of idle quality I'm sacrificing for the move in the power curve.

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #379 on: March 07, 2021, 11:29:06 PM »
I have the 2.1L engine that Metric Mechanic builds, so yeah everything in there is totally different than stock. I am not sure how the increased lift would play out with the stock pistons & rods, that is a good point. I am also not sure if those are "too much" cam for a stock 1.8L.

Modelling can be pretty powerful, but chances are that the really good tools are all custom made by major car makers and used by engineers whose whole job is cam profile development. MM has developed their profiles over a bunch of decades of trial and error and testing, as do other engine builders I'd assume. Do let us know what Catcams says. Since the M42 was never a major source of interest in the performance parts world, I wonder how much development went into the profiles?

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #380 on: March 08, 2021, 10:23:59 PM »
Sharing is caring, as soon as I get a response you'll know!

I needed to email them every day for a few days to get a reply, so I imagine it will be like that again.


I don't suppose anyone knows what the maximum lift the OEM M44 can handle before I start bending valves?

Bro

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #381 on: July 19, 2021, 06:23:32 AM »
Got more info on the variable length aspect? Did you repurpose the DISA valve in the plenum?

It is working finally, but since I have a 1994 coupe with a DME 1.7 it cannot handle the new intake as well as the DME 5.2 so I have 3 options: 1. remap the factory ECU, 2. install a stand alone ECU, 3. sell my car and buy a newer car with an M44.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU0JptwB2vw

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #382 on: September 30, 2021, 02:40:10 AM »
Oh that is super cool!

Getting a stand alone ECU would probably be the easiest way forward. RHD also has a plug and play ECU kit, and you can get quite a lot from these cars with a tune!

Bro

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #383 on: October 10, 2021, 08:51:50 AM »
Just out of curiosity I went to the dyno. The car made 150hp @ 6000 RPM with the OEM ECU. The graph shows a comparison between the OEM's and the variable ITB's setup.

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #384 on: October 10, 2021, 11:54:23 AM »
Wow, that is super cool. Definitely an awesome project! Do you have any documentation for your project that you can post? Of course, if you are building a product then I understand if you can't share.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Clarkyboy

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #385 on: February 16, 2022, 11:37:51 AM »
I've enjoyed reading this thread,

I recently bought a pretty trick M42 - spec below - and yesterday I ordered a set of ITB's from RHD!

Engine Head:
Commetic MLS Head Gasket
ARP Head Bolts
Supertech Valve Seals (from US)
Supertech Valves (1mm Oversize from US)
New BMW Cam Sprockets & Bolts
Cat Cams 290° intake & 275° Exhaust
Cat Cams Solid Followers & Double Stainless Springs & Shims
New Head to Bottom End Water Feed Plastic Pipe
New BMW Timing Chain and Tensioner
New BMW Thermostat
New BMW Water Pump

Engine Bottom End:
Crank, and Lightened Flywheel Balanced
CP Pistons (High Compression 11:1 from US)
ACL Big End Bearings
ACL Rod Bearings
New BMW Crank Seals front and back
New Sump & Magnetic sump plug

Ancillaries:
New Bosch starter motor
New alternator
New running belts

The car was originally mapped to 200 bhp and the rev limit was 8450 - but that was on dbilas ITB's so id expect to see a bit more from RHD's.

Once i get it all in, engine wiring loom made and have it mapped i will pop back with some pictures and the numbers from the Dyno.!

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #386 on: April 21, 2022, 08:29:45 PM »
Once i get it all in, engine wiring loom made and have it mapped i will pop back with some pictures and the numbers from the Dyno.!

I'm looking forward to it!

I've been busy myself, I've got some cams, doing some work on a head and I've started rebuilding a bunch of small case LSDs! I'm redesigning parts for them to make them fully customisable!


lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #387 on: May 06, 2022, 06:18:08 PM »
So I got my ECU and cams installed and the power output was wild! I've got a bit more work to do before I share results, but damn, good fun!

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #388 on: May 06, 2022, 06:51:49 PM »
Awesome!!! Can't wait to see them  8)

Cheers,
~Ralph

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #389 on: June 18, 2022, 11:18:02 PM »
Cool, looking forward to some pics and videos!

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?