Author Topic: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design  (Read 298466 times)

Bro

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #360 on: November 03, 2020, 02:25:55 AM »
Got more info on the variable length aspect? Did you repurpose the DISA valve in the plenum?

Yes, I use the DISA valve, but it doesn't create enough power to move the 4 trumpets with the current design, so I redesign the construction right now. If you are interested I could post here when it is working properly.

PJH318is

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #361 on: January 24, 2021, 02:18:30 PM »
I bought the ITB kit for my BMW E30 318is.

I have been trying to fit it, but my airbox won't fit as it hits the original brake booster.

Has anyone here had this issue? I can't really see any posts about it.

Should I put in a new brake booster? I read that a VW Polo 86c brake booster might work but I would like to hear it from you guys.

Other options are also welcome.

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #362 on: January 24, 2021, 09:47:49 PM »

My questions:
1. I wanted to synchronize the ITB-s with a synchrometer, but without airbox and air flow sensor the car idles rough, so it is not possible. It idles between 1200 and 2000rpm. Did you synchronize the  throttle bodies or just put it together and it runs fine without synchronization?


If those ITB's have air ports on them then you can use a manometer like for a motorcycle. That's what I use on my E30M3 S14 motor.
https://classiccarbs.co.uk/product/keihinmikuni-fzryzfcbrzxrgsxrzzrcbgsktm-4cyl-carb-synchronizer

Cheers,
~Ralph

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #363 on: January 24, 2021, 09:51:13 PM »
I bought the ITB kit for my BMW E30 318is.

I have been trying to fit it, but my airbox won't fit as it hits the original brake booster.

Has anyone here had this issue? I can't really see any posts about it.


Did you use the RHD ITB's or the Dbilas ones?

I had the Dbilas on my car. The first plenum was used for an E36. I had to return that one and get the E30 specific one which was angled to clear the booster.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Bro

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #364 on: January 25, 2021, 01:48:44 AM »

My questions:
1. I wanted to synchronize the ITB-s with a synchrometer, but without airbox and air flow sensor the car idles rough, so it is not possible. It idles between 1200 and 2000rpm. Did you synchronize the  throttle bodies or just put it together and it runs fine without synchronization?


If those ITB's have air ports on them then you can use a manometer like for a motorcycle. That's what I use on my E30M3 S14 motor.
https://classiccarbs.co.uk/product/keihinmikuni-fzryzfcbrzxrgsxrzzrcbgsktm-4cyl-carb-synchronizer

Cheers,
~Ralph

Okay, thanks, now it idles just fine after running ~60 seconds after a cold start. I had to readjust the throttle bodies.

@PJH318is:
I wouldn't bother the brake booster. I designed a custom made intake piping for the ITB-s. I could keep the longer intake runners (for better low and mid RPM range) and the original brake booster.

You can see it on this video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LHIZCyCGEQiwrYKtbkF__l-QC458P53z/view

If you are interested, I can help you. Just send me a private message!

PJH318is

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #365 on: January 25, 2021, 05:28:29 AM »
It's an RHD M42 ITB kit to be put in an LHD E30 318is.

PJH318is

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #366 on: January 26, 2021, 02:39:28 AM »
I have also noticed that the fuel rail of an E30 M42 does not fit.

Do I need an E36 M42 or an E36 M44 fuel rail?

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #367 on: January 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PM »
Are the mounting bolts/studs in the wrong location, or are the injectors too long?

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

PJH318is

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #368 on: January 27, 2021, 05:31:11 AM »
De mounting points do not match up.

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #369 on: January 27, 2021, 03:20:26 PM »
This kit was originally designed for the E36. The plenum also doesn't have the cut out for the brake booster just as my E36 Dbilas kit. I had to send it back to Germany and get the correct plenum for the E30. I'm assuming this is now the same for the fuel rail.

Cheers,
~Ralph

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #370 on: January 28, 2021, 01:40:25 PM »
I contacted Rama to ask about this, and yes the kit is E36 specific. However, he did say this: "lots of people have modified it to fit the e30 , we sell some or can exchange the spacers for some slightly shorter ones and then the plenum needs a slight modification for everything to work".

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #371 on: February 28, 2021, 05:51:28 PM »
Well it has been a while since I've looked at anything on this project, and I'm actually revisiting it!

I'm going to be redesigning the 3D printing intake, and so I'll be selling the 3D printed parts and the aluminum runners, if you're interested let me know!

I've also enquired about reflashing the ECU with different people over time and still haven't been able to find anyone who can guide me or do it. I tried Midnight Tuning some time ago, but that was a no. I contacted Powerchip (Wayne Besanko) but to be honest, I just never trusted the guy, and I'm trying one place in the UK that seems to have started doing it relatively recently but I'm not holding out much hope. I also ended up chatting with Bruno DaSilva (BDS Motorsport) and holy hell, what an absolute crack head that guy is! I don't know why these cars attract whackos to work on them but he is absolutely the worst I've come across, so if you ever risk dealing with the guy, don't!

I'm considering getting a stand alone ECU finally, and to justify it I'm wanting to get some cams or adjust the OEM cam. Has anyone done either of those and has any experience to share?

Keep track with what I'm doing on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/user/ShiftMotoring?app=desktop

Warsteiner

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #372 on: March 01, 2021, 07:44:47 AM »
Hey lambertius,

I would talk to Mark D'Sylva in Toronto, Canada! He was willing to work with me to tune my stroker with Dbilas ITB's on the stock E30 ECU. Not sure what he'll say about the E36 and reflashing but it's worth a shot.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/products.htm

I would also talk to a new member apexspeedtech.com here on the forum and a master at tuning. He's in California, USA

Here is Neel's link
http://apexspeedtech.com

I've done all the above you mentioned  ;D

 Going on info from an old timer in the mechanic field, I advanced the intake cam timing on a stock M42 motor and stock cams 3-5 degrees with a Jim C chip and I thought that it wasn't as good as the stock cam setting. So my suggestion would be to go with a stock manufacturer setting at first and then play around from there. When I built the stroker I had a friend design a custom cam profile that would give lots of torque across the rev range. The torque band was flat which is great for the street. The E30M3 S14 Evo2 came with a special exhaust cam gear to scavenge for more torque. When you changed cams it just wasn't worth it anymore so it may only have been good for stock cam purposes. You'd really have to play around with cam gears and cams to find the optimal tuning for your application.

 I've also done a lot of cam work with the E30M3 S14 with a 2.3L and 2.5L. I've had stock and Schrick's and regrinds that mimic Dbilas or BMP cams(which were Dbilas cams). Schrick cams are like having an on/off switch, more raw; the power comes on hard. One sec it's not there and then you just take off. LOL

I now have a shim under bucket set up on my 2.5L S14 with 304*/296* regrind Dbilas cam set up. The motor makes 330+HP at the crank. These cams are so much more refined and progressive than the Schrick's. The power is so much more linear and it's very deceiving! I've heard Cat Cam could be another option but I have no experience with their cams. If I were to do cams for a M42 motor I would go Dbilas. They have great customer service as well!

That S14 motor also has a stand alone ViPec ECU on it. So much more control with a stand alone. My M42 stroker had MSII running Alpha N and MAP making 212HP at the crank with mild street cams. I would find out what your local tuner likes to use and go with that option. It will save you time, which is money, so they don't have to learn a new system. Remote tuning is also an option and requires buying a few toys to log your runs.

So you have lots of options to choose from and they're all great ones!  bmwman91 is setting up a custom stand alone and then there is Neel who is a new member but known to some of us in the stand alone and BMW world as well for his masterful tuning expertise!

Here is the link that bmwman91 is working on with the stand alone project.
http://www.m42club.com/forum/index.php?topic=20113.0

Hope this helps!

Cheers mate,
~Ralph

lambertius

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #373 on: March 01, 2021, 03:44:08 PM »
Thanks for all that! I'll contact all those people and go from there!

My whole reason for wanting to keep the OEM ECU is that just changing the intake and exhaust doesn't really justify buying a stand alone ecu and then paying for the tuning time. That said, the kit as you buy it plus a tune gets ~100wkW (I've seen the dyno results from Rama). But considering it will just be adjusting some timing being able to reflash the OEM ECU would be sufficient.

If I go standalone though I want to make it worth my while so yeah, may as well go some cams and get over that triple digit!

bmwman91

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Re: M42/M44 ITB Kit Design
« Reply #374 on: March 01, 2021, 07:07:34 PM »
My recommendation is Sssquid Tuning here in the US. I have worked with the owner for a number of years on M42 tuning and Motronic reverse engineering, and I am confident that no other tuner knows the M42 better than Sssquid. He has also worked on numerous fully built engines, NA and FI, ITBs, etc.. M1.7.2 in the E36 is a little different in some ways to M1.7, but I am pretty sure he would have you covered. The main thing is that you at least have a wide band O2 sensor in there and can log it against RPM, and if you have EGT it is even better for doing remote tuning.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?