Warsteiner, Wazzu70 and bmwman91 convince Norm he can build a smoking M42

[Warsteiner]

Do you have those ready to go Warsteiner?? They look insane!!

Norm....They're ready but waiting. i had tried to fit them as is but my brake booster was getting in the way. I didn't want to get into changing all that at the time so I put the Dbilas ITB's in instead. LOL

Nick...I'm not competing. Hahah Norm started this whole thing! But we should all get some dyno sheets of all of our different builds and see where these M42's really come alive.

Cheers,
~Ralph

[thebrelon]

my 2 cents:

- M44 crank: might be easier to get good rods/pistons (I mean with less machining) than M47
- among with engine set-up you have to decide now which engine management you're going to use. I keep on saying MS3-MS3X extension, go MAP and get rid of MAF/AFM to end all discussions on which is best (answer: none of them). oh! and get total control over your engine!!
- if you want to keep your 3.73LSD you can consider E36 M42/M44 gearbox, is it what warsteiner call close ratio gb. it will be a shorter ratio than E30 gearbox + S4.10 and even may be too short for a stroked engine or for your needs...

actually I would start a M42 rebuild from a M42 E36 unit so that you have the improved timing case, serpentine accessory belt, knock detection sensors, can use E36 gearbox bolt on, etc... just need to use E30 intake mani and oil sump

bon courage!

[Warsteiner]

Yes Vince... that is is exactly what I meant about the close ratio and the differential. It will probably be too short for a stroker and everyday driving.  Almost like using an E30 gearbox with a 4.45 diff. or the M10 4 speed days on the highway. Hahahaha

Cheers,
~Ralph
PS...ok! another pic....

[Nick_318is]

God dammit, you guys are a bad influence (in a good sort of way) you make me want to build one too!

[wazzu70]

My car has a ZF320 trans and a 188 3.73 LSD. Noticably more pickup than my old G240 and 188 4.10 LSD setup.

If I were to do it over I would just buy a set of steeper gears for the 188 diff and do that. Much easier



This is an exciting time with quite a few decent builds going on and being documented. I need to redyno my car with the standalone installed now. Its definitely more capable of supplying the demands of the 272deg cams. I have stock throttle body thats just connected to a filter. Throttle response is pretty dang insane. Not sure I would gain much from ITBs actually.

[bmwman91]

I am not sure if I am worthy to be called out in the title as one of the contributors here...I pussed out and spent a bunch of money to have professionals do all the real work for me. Everyone else here seems to have earned their stripes! It will be fun to get some dyno pulls documented. I am half afraid to go do it because if the power is nowhere near the quoted amount on MM's brochure, I am going to feel even more like a money-burning fool lol. I blame Febi for all of it with his crazy 2006 adventure at MM!

Ralph, are those custom-machined throttles? Mmmm slide throttles. I have always wanted to work out a setup with dual-slides so that the opening starts in the center rather than along one of the sides. It might not provide any real benefit in terms of mixing, but it seems like it might. Then again, race teams would do it that way if it did (I would assume).

[normboudreault]

I have to chime in and say bmwman91 you are HUGELY responsible... sorry but its true.

Between the resto, rebuild and the house I bought (with the big *ss double garage)  to get all this done this will surely be one of the most expensive E30 rebuilds ever. 

I started moving car parts over to the new garage uh, home today - think Im gonna paint it first, that will be cool.... Cant wait to get my hands dirty in that garage!! My apologies for the delay this will cause.... 

my 2 cents:

- M44 crank: might be easier to get good rods/pistons (I mean with less machining) than M47
- among with engine set-up you have to decide now which engine management you're going to use. I keep on saying MS3-MS3X extension, go MAP and get rid of MAF/AFM to end all discussions on which is best (answer: none of them). oh! and get total control over your engine!!
- if you want to keep your 3.73LSD you can consider E36 M42/M44 gearbox, is it what warsteiner call close ratio gb. it will be a shorter ratio than E30 gearbox + S4.10 and even may be too short for a stroked engine or for your needs...

actually I would start a M42 rebuild from a M42 E36 unit so that you have the improved timing case, serpentine accessory belt, knock detection sensors, can use E36 gearbox bolt on, etc... just need to use E30 intake mani and oil sump

Thats interesting. Not sure how much the mods would cost vs. buying a junkyard unknown engine....

Will I have to switch engine management systems? Or would that just be nice??

[thebrelon]

actually I would start a M42 rebuild from a M42 E36 unit so that you have the improved timing case, serpentine accessory belt, knock detection sensors, can use E36 gearbox bolt on, etc... just need to use E30 intake mani and oil sump

Thats interesting. Not sure how much the mods would cost vs. buying a junkyard unknown engine....

Will I have to switch engine management systems? Or would that just be nice??

that is assuming you're going standalone, otherwise, yes and no, you can stick to e30 management with some tweaking (if I'm correct) or use E36 management with some tinkering but there are no benefits (apart from saving $$$) using either ones. from MY point of view.

regarding the junkyard engine you would be rebuild, eh! you're gong to rebuild it anyway!!!

[normboudreault]

thebrelon: I will have to look into that but knowing me, I would want to keep the original engine... just seems right...

Good news! Found a good machine shop here in Montreal for engine rebuilds. Looks like a pretty big place and they've been around for a looong time. Computer controlled machinery. And they seem to do everything, flywheel lightening and cranks too.

So...
Can anyone spell 2.1L ?

 

[MLM]

 And spell ITB,... do it Norm, the giggle factor from the sound alone is worth it!

[thebrelon]

PS...ok! another pic....

staged fuel injection: why is that?
to be able to idle the engine properly I guess?

[romkasponka]

Idle is not so big problem. The problem still exist with atomisation and injectors which are further  from intake valves provides better fuel/air mix, but in case ITB is closed you will spray all the fuel on ITB

[thebrelon]

so injectors after ITBs are for idle/almost closed itbs conditions and the one before are for open ITBs/WOT. but its not due to injectors size and engine needs as it is usually the case.
thanks !

[romkasponka]

so injectors after ITBs are for idle/almost closed itbs conditions and the one before are for open ITBs/WOT. but its not due to injectors size and engine needs as it is usually the case.
thanks !

Vise versa because nobody cares about atomisation (except green peace) on idle. You need perfect atomisation during WOT. To mix air with fuel you need time and during WOT and high rpm you do not have so much time if the injectors are close to intake valves. The minimum open time for injector is small enough to run our engine with 800cc/min and bigger without any problem. Atomization will not be perfect but good enough. I know people running 2000cc/min on 2500cc turbo M50 engine.

[thebrelon]

understood!