M42 build for E36 Compact

Author Topic: M42 build for E36 Compact  (Read 106626 times)

Tgoode318

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2014, 10:39:15 AM »
phatbob Those pistons look awesome.
 I would also like to hear your thoughts/reasonings on why you chose this particular route for your pistons.  My engine build is a way's down the road but am still pondering pistons and a number of other parts.
-'94/05 M42 Convertible
-2001 330CI M Package
-2016 M4 Competition

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2014, 11:15:22 AM »

Any reasons you can't use s50 Pistons us or euro, MM (87) or xrallyparts Pistons (86.5)?
Cheers Rohan
Hi Darky, S50B30 US Pistons are what I currently have, but I couldn't get the compression with the ones I had, and when I checked the next highest compression I would still be a way off.
The XRallyparts are for the S42 which has a different rod design so I wasn't going to gamble on those hoping to re-bush the rods etc.
Metricmechanic are in the US and I'm in Europe, so getting parts that wont be hit with import duty was the decider.

And when I compare the prices these pistons are marginally less than the XRallyparts.

phatbob Those pistons look awesome.
 I would also like to hear your thoughts/reasonings on why you chose this particular route for your pistons.  My engine build is a way's down the road but am still pondering pistons and a number of other parts.
Cheers for that - the key part for me is that I set off down a route of development that a contact of mine (who works for M-Division in Munich) warned me against... And he was right, so I get to buy a second set of pistons which are custom made but are not hugely more expensive than the other options.
So as I am following advice I am following the recipe that another M42 engine was built to - and that's using 13:1 compression to make the Catcams 1301520 profile cams work ( http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/1301520.pdf  ) as they produced 244bhp@7900rpm and 240nm@5200rpm from a 1930cc engine.

Darky

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #107 on: November 03, 2014, 06:00:36 PM »
So your aiming for 13:1 compressions? That's massive.

Those are massive cams your trumpets will have to be really long. Unless you raise your revs of course.

Xrallyparts do a x42(basically a m42, with s42 bits made to fit) but your right the 18 mm piston pin would force you to use there rods! They get 260 hp out of 2l at 12.5:1. At 13:1 your probably being a bit conservative with 244 hp.

What are the specs of the piston? Dia, pin, comp height, mass etc

wazzu70

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #108 on: November 03, 2014, 11:38:37 PM »
What fuel are you planning to run? I cant wait to see this thing run!!
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #109 on: November 04, 2014, 02:36:21 AM »
So your aiming for 13:1 compressions? That's massive.

Those are massive cams your trumpets will have to be really long. Unless you raise your revs of course.

Xrallyparts do a x42(basically a m42, with s42 bits made to fit) but your right the 18 mm piston pin would force you to use there rods! They get 260 hp out of 2l at 12.5:1. At 13:1 your probably being a bit conservative with 244 hp.

What are the specs of the piston? Dia, pin, comp height, mass etc

Yep, its a pretty insane level of compression, but thats because of the compression losses as a result of the extreme cams.
The trumpets are going to be setup on the dyno, and yeah they're going to need to be massive. Revs should be higher because I'm using the 81mm stroke of the M42 rather than one of the other crank options. This gives me an over square engine that should rev nice and high, and if you check the rest of this thread everything I've done has been to reduce weight while improving strength of the parts.

You're right about Xrallyparts, I spent far too long pouring over their site, but the parts blew the budget I had to pieces. If this engine works then I might start a phase 2, but I have a Honda B16B to rebuild before all of that. As for power, I really only expect 200 - 220bhp as I've been disappointed by NA tuning in the past.  A mate of mine put the S50 ITBs and a fast road cam in his M44 and got 178bhp so who knows where it will end up.

As for specs, 86.5mm diameter, 22mm pin, 31.5mm comp height, mass is as yet unknown, I am totally relying on the recommendation of the BMW guy on this whole aspect of the project...

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #110 on: November 04, 2014, 02:37:32 AM »
What fuel are you planning to run? I cant wait to see this thing run!!

99 octane as a minimum. I can't wait to see this thing running either - its been going on for far too long...

Warsteiner

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #111 on: November 04, 2014, 06:56:08 AM »
I feel your pain that its been going on for a long time. I'm just getting to tuning my car after years of building this new stroker and life sometime gets in the way too..lol

I have no idea where my power will end up either but I know I built it for a street motor and torque. Torque gets you moving more so then power and I didn't want to seem like I was driving like an a$$hole around town to make the car go...LOL

I think your car will make plenty of power given your specs so far. I won't say how much but it will be significant.

Great thread....Keep up the great work!!

Cheers,
~Ralph

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2014, 01:44:52 PM »
The pistons arrived safe and sound from Matzinger

They look to be very high quality, nicely finished, and come with Total seal piston rings. Most importantly they come with *Four* stickers.
First thing I did was put them on the scales they came in at ~436g each, that's pistons rings, clips and pins.
The rings needed very little gapping, so it was soon onto checking valve clearances.
Squared the piston at TDC and bolted on my degree wheel

Then setup the DTI to get the measurements


All measurements are in mm
DegreesInlet (ATDC)Exhaust (BTDC)
06.056.45
56.526.49
107.226.74
158.637.65
209.868.63

Tgoode318

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #113 on: November 29, 2014, 08:46:05 PM »
Those Look Top Notch  8)
-'94/05 M42 Convertible
-2001 330CI M Package
-2016 M4 Competition

keflaman

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2014, 05:55:39 AM »
Could you explain to me what and why you have to "square the piston"?

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2014, 12:33:54 PM »
To get the piston accurately at TDC so that I can measure the piston to deck height the two DTI device is first zeroed on the block deck, these are then pushed to the middle of the cylinder and then the piston sides are pushed to get the dials to read the same - once this is done the piston is sat squarely in the bore. The crank is then turned to find the true TDC, the piston remains square in the bore thanks to ring tension and the small amount that the piston is moved a very small amount.
As the piston generally sits square I can get accurate measurements when I do the valve to crown clearance measurements.

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #116 on: December 01, 2014, 02:54:41 PM »
Pistons fitted:


Rod bolts torqued and the stretch measured:


Sump, timing chain and cover on:


Next job is to order cams, springs and retainers. See about sorting an oil filter take-off plate so that I can fit a remote oil filter and cooler.
After that the simple stuff, wiring in an ECU, electric water pump.

I might even have this running for the 2015 season.

wazzu70

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2014, 10:23:41 PM »
Any ideas on what cam specs you are going with?
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

MrPhatBob

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2014, 09:41:01 AM »
I've ordered the CatCams 1301520 profile
http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/1301520.pdf
Inlet 298° duration 12.5mm lift
Exhaust 290° duration 12mm lift

Tgoode318

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Re: M42 build for E36 Compact
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2014, 10:23:10 AM »
I love the direction you are going with this engine build. Those cams are going to be Wild! I think you made the right choice with catcam, they are expensive but well worth the money. This should be a great track setup.
-TG
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:28:53 AM by Tgoode318 »
-'94/05 M42 Convertible
-2001 330CI M Package
-2016 M4 Competition