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Fitsole

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Key wont turn
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:21:13 PM »
Took ignition lock cylinder out and tried flat head. Key still wont turn. HELP!!!!
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

DesktopDave

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 02:41:23 PM »
Did you pull the steering column halves? The ignition switch will unclip from the left side - maybe something is jamming the plastic ignition switch mechanism? It's plastic, could be an overload partially melted it?  Might be the steering wheel lock too.
Here's a diagram:
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Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 02:51:50 PM »
Will try. Thx bro. Let you know what happens.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 03:15:34 PM »
After a little more research I think it may be the shaft behind tumbler. Looking for vids or thread with specifics.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 07:18:47 PM »
I think I'm going to buy a push button starter for now.  I can turn my key now to get accessories on. $260 dollars for parts will ruin my Christmas plans and I don't want to let my kids down. My grandfathers 96 300zx tt had a push button like that. I actually thought it was pretty cool anyway. Btw a bobby pin bent at 90 degrees with about a ten degree bend on the straight end works way better to get the lock out than the other ideas I tried. Also push in your key a little as you do it. It seems to relive pressure on the spring mechanism. You will feel it click about in inch in. Push about 1/16 more and she will pop right out. It was a pain to get in at first since I could barely get my accessories on. If I let go of the key it would go back and they wouldn't stay on.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

DesktopDave

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 09:15:25 PM »
A push button would be a pretty cheap fix.

If it's the steering lock assembly, I'd bet it's easier to replace the entire upper column than swap the mechanism.
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Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 03:42:25 PM »
So I bought a push button and a 40 a relay. I got it all in and it cranked. Won't start. When I turn my key my accessories radio,turn signal, headlights come on. My fuel pump does not. I'm not getting the key to turn enough to engage the pump. So I want to run a toggle for my fuel pump and accessories all in one. Which wires run my fuel pump coming from the key switch. I have purple two greens and the grounds brown. Is the purple my fuel pump?
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 06:40:05 PM »
If I'm reading the ETM correctly:

The ignition key has both 'run' and 'start' positions
You should have a thick red wire coming in on terminal 30 right off the power distribution block on the firewall.
To start the car, you'd need to short that red wire to both the black/yellow wire on terminal 50 and the green wire on term 15 momentarily. That'll engage the starter and power up the injection electronics.
To keep the car running, disconnect the black/yellow wire but keep red connected to the green wire.

Make sure fuse 10 is OK too - it powers the unloader relays K5 & K7.

You might need a 2nd 4-pin relay, or a 5-pin with two load outputs and diode isolation.
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'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 09:28:17 PM »
From your post it seem like I could run a toggle to the red and green to power my accessories. Then hit my starter button. As long as I have power red running to green fuel system. Correct? Or am I way off. Also if the purple is my radio/etc i would like it to be on the toggle switch as well so I won't forget to turn off the fuel system. Sorry my first time delving into wiring besides radios/speakers. I used a e36 DIY starter button link for the install. His ignition lock worked fine. He just wanted it for looks. His key would turn on enough to allow the fuel pump to kick.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 09:38:38 PM »
I'm not 100% sure; I'm a little out of my depth with this. The ETM only shows each circuit individually. Do you have a copy of it? Very helpful bit of info.

I downloaded it from here:
1992 BMW 318ic Electrical Troubleshooting Manual

The '92 'vert manual has more info than the "correct" '91 318iS manual, so that's the one I always suggest. Ignore the 'vert stuff, of course.
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Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2013, 10:30:47 PM »
It's a little out of my depth also. From what I have read on other sites the purple is radio accessories. Green you said was fuel electronics. So if red is my power I should run red out of firewall to one side of switch, and green purple to other side. That should supply power to both I think. The starter button works great. I need to get this done by tommorow or hope I can find a ride to work. I found a lock cylinder housing on eBay for $100 and the lock cylinder with 2 keys for $43. I heard there are two bolts on the housing you got to hit with a chisel to get off and its a pain in the behind to do. Bad timing. I needed to get a new tire and my tie rods put on. Instead I'm dealing with this. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 02:20:14 AM »
Ok I definitely need another relay. I found this. Breaks it down pretty good.

          When the ignition key is turned all the way to the "start" position, it allows electricity to flow to the starter solenoid (relay) which then connects the battery to the starter motor. So why do we need this solenoid "middle man" ? Couldn't we just eliminate it and connect the ignition wires to the + battery terminal and the other wire to the starter motor? The important point here is that the electromagnet is using a small amount of current to control a large amount of current to the starter motor. (Remember that the electromagnet and the switch are NOT connected electrically). Have you noticed that all of the wires (except the ignition wires) are purposely drawn with thick lines? The reason being that some circuits (such as the starter) in a car require a tremendous amount of current. (If you look at an automobile's battery cables, you will notice they are quite thick.) Connecting the ignition wires to the battery and then to the starter motor would cause these thin wires to conduct much more current than they were designed for. These wires would become very hot and the insulation would start to smoke. (The same would hold true for the ignition switch). After starting the car for just a few times, the wires and the switch would be in bad shape.

         
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

Fitsole

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 02:24:26 AM »
Where the wires go in on the cylinder housing is the red round thing a relay.
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92 calypso red 318ic. Turner Motorsport performance chip, m20 flywheel, dynomax max turbo muffler ran into straight 3 in pipe cat delete, 4,27 LSD, bilstein sport shocks/struts, and springs, 205 40 17 TSW EVO Rs wrapped in kumho ecsta high performance tires.

DesktopDave

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 08:07:04 AM »
Quote from: Fitsole on December 01, 2013, 02:24:26 AM
Where the wires go in on the cylinder housing is the red round thing a relay.

Do you mean #3 on that diagram? That's the ignition switch, it just unclips from the side of the ignition housing. Post a pic if it's not on that diagram. There are also some airbag connectors there, bright red.

The solenoid on Bosch starters is not only a relay, but also an actuator. It slides the starter gear into the flywheel teeth while simultaneously connecting the starter motor directly to the battery. BMW also wired the E30 with a pair of 'unloader' relays that will disconnect other high-powered components (like the headlights) while the starter is cranking.
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'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
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Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

ti_tony

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Re: Key wont turn
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2013, 09:40:07 AM »
I'm not going to be much help But I had a 1987 325e and the key wouldn't turn, just out of the blue. I took the ignition apart two or three times and couldn't see what was causing it. Finally I noticed a small pin that slid around and blocked it from turning. I glued the pin in place and had no more problems. The pin was in a slot along one side, could you post a pic looking down the throat of the switch? It's been about 7 years ago when it happened and can't remember exactly how it was arranged.             
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