E36 Class II M42 flyhweel question and other troubles

[makaveli1996]

Hi fellas,
 
my name is Daniel iam from Stuttgart Germany.Iam pretty new in the BMw World and stepped in with a 1994 Class II.
Since now i was more the Jap head owning a fully built MR2 turbo (full built engine from Caldina GTT).
I am starting this thread intending to get some infos on your opinion on a flywheel clutch combo that fits for me.
 
Ok to make a long story short my BMW gave me some troubles from the start.
the damage it made since now:

-new fuel injector  (installed by BMW)
-new spark plugs (installed by BMW)
-new Crank case Vent  (installed by BMW)
-new fuel filter (Mann)
-new O2 Sensor (Bosch)
-new K/N Panel AirFilter
 
ok next thing coming up is the transmission.it seems i have a rattle noise if i release the Clutchpedal.So my guess was its the TO-Bearing.
So we jacked  the car up to find out the noise comes from the transmission itself.Fact is that its pretty difficult to roll from a start if the transmission is really hot (traffic jam or after the autobahn).
If i try to roll on the car shakes and rattles and the complete driveshaft is vibrating leaving me with a "clunk" noise everytime i press or lift the gas pedal.
The rubber flexdisk has no play.
So i bought an used E46 TBDH transmission from 2003.This seems to fit my car too regarding to pt-numbers.
 
The plan is to exchange the clutch,TO bearing and maybe the crankshaft endseal with it.
now i found an Ebayshop here in germany that offers lightened OEM flywheels.Then there is the option to by a improved SACHS clutch from another Ebay shop who acts as an official Sachs performance clutch vendor working togehter directly with VALEO and ZF SACHS.

I dont want to tune that car that much as i know the high cost on NA tuning.
But improving things here and there might be a plan.I know the advantages from a sportive clutch from my MR2 (binary OS GIKEN twinplante).
iam pretty sure i can buy that clutch..but what about the flywheel?A bad weighted flywheel can stress bearings + could be bad for an even idle.
 
So iam not sure if its worth the attempt.Any expertise advise?
 
Flywheel 
http://www.ebay.de/itm/160851002591?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
improved clutch
http://www.performance-kupplung.de/shop10/index.php/verstaerkte-kupplung-sachs-performance-kupplung-bmw/verstaerkte-kupplung-sachs-performance-kupplung-bmw-e36/verstaerkte-kupplung-sachs-performance-kupplung-bmw-318-is/kupplungskit-sachs-serie-bmw-316i-e36.html

[bmwman91]

Light flywheels combined with the M42 engine cause very loud transmission rattle. When you press the clutch in, the engine is disconnected from the transmission's input shaft, and all of the parts in the transmission are still. With the clutch out (sitting at idle) the input shaft is spinning with the engine and all of the gears are rattling on each other since there is no load to keep things seated. With the original heavy flywheel, much of the engine vibration is dampened. But with a light flywheel, most of that vibration is no longer absorbed and goes into the transmission. My E30 318iS with a 2.1L build and 5kg flywheel...well, sitting at idle, the transmission sounds like it is full of rocks! Also, in 5th gear if I am driving and let my foot off of the gas (engine braking in 5th gear) it makes a LOT of noise too. It sounds like you are hearing the noise with the original flywheel, and you have not yet installed a lighter flywheel, correct?

At first I was concerned. Looking around online, it seems that this is 100% normal when you put a light flywheel on a 4 cylinder, especially one with no balance shafts like the M42. The term "Getrag rattle" is very common if you search for it.

Clunks in the driveline could be from an old and cracked flex disc, worn out driveshaft center support bearing/bushing, worn out differential mounts or even bad rear subframe bushings.

Shaky / difficult behavior when driving with a hot clutch could be due to a worn our clutch disc or warped flywheel. And if you get the clutch hot enough, it will always act like that.

[makaveli1996]

Hey bmwman,
i hoped you join my Topic as ive already read the Forums and saw you posting on such issues.
First let me say iam happy you know your transmissions.

today i watched my driving behaviour and the gear changes on the E36 to see if a lighter flywheel could benefit me.I would say it could.The only Problem i really see is that my idle isnt very even.
its not oscilating but i cant call it steady.more like the famous BMW whining or singing as they call in on the german boards.

Good to see you confirm my thoughts. As the E36 is my daily i dont want to hear rattle noises and stuff (i have my MR2 for that).
You explained it very good with the loads on the spline shaft beeing free at idle causing rattle noises which maybe wont be dampened good enough then with the new flywheel.
Exactly your noise experience is what i have on the Toyota MR2 ^^ lift your foot in 5th and it grunts deep and steady.

Youre correct, i hear that rocking noise at idle with my stock flywheel which lead me to the Impression ist the ThrowOut bearing.But if i snap on the gas or clutch to roll on i hear havy clunking noises sounding exactly like a worn rubberflexidisk or like a dead Dual-mass-Flywheel.Fact is i have no Aircon on the Class II and regarding to BMW and to the Bmw.info.com i have a single-Mass-Flywheel on my car.
It cant be the flexidisk as i have the noise also in idle and when reving at idle.

So i assume it is the Transmission.On lower gears i can hear a very Little rattling noise out of the gearbox - and i feel bad vibrations in my shifter which dispear immediatly when i press the clutch!
Fact is i feel the vibrations too if i stand still shiftet in neutral and press the gas pedal to the floor..ist like some uneveness that feels like it has a bit weight on it..like the flywheel or clutch..

my first thought was a worn rodbearing - but i doubt that.the car was evidently driven by 2 women (family) and has registered 100.000 km.

when i drive the car does not shake...but i feel the vibrations in the shifter and i hear it hammering..
the shake behaviour only occurs when the engine is very hot and i want to drive on in traffic jams or from the lights.

maybe this Closes the circle further more?

nevertheles i am ready to change the transmission and the clutch.I have everything ready now.Will start in one week from now and at least then will know for fact what causes this Vibration issue?

[bmwman91]

What is the condition of the engine mounts? Worn engine mounts can lead to increased vibration.

You could try changing the transmission fluid too. It might just be low, and it can get noisy in that situation.

Clunking noises when getting on and off the gas is usually due to old worn-out rubber somewhere in the driveline. If you are going in there to change the clutch and transmission anyway, then you will probably find the reason.

[makaveli1996]

Oh sorry forgot to mention - the engine Mounts are both spitting out oil.
i have new ones here ready to go in with the Transmission swap.
My mechanic told me that it could be engine Mount related - so with rocked the engine from left to right like crazy - resulting in oilbubbles on the Mounts.
then we reved it up and it didnt affect nothing nor making noises from there.
all noises are from arround the shifter.i litterally feel them.

regarding the clunming noises youre right it definetly could be from the Mounts.

Any suggestions on those Idle vibrations?it feels like the engine has contact to chasis if you understand what i mean.its heavy massive and metallic Feeling.

[bmwman91]

If the mounts are leaking oil, then that is probably your #1 problem. Revving the engine won't reveal much, but when you are loading the engine and applying torque, THEN the dead mounts will allow the engine and tranny to move around a lot. It's definitely something you would feel in the shifter handle. Replace the mounts first and see how it drives. On the E30 it is a pretty simple 1 hour job if you have a hydraulic jack, and even easier if you have an engine hoist. Not sure about the E36.

[makaveli1996]

youre right i guess ill change them tomorrow.
i saw how they are mounted on the e46 of my buddy (rod bearing toast after 170.000km).
Seems to be pretty easy on those cars.This way i can drive another week to check things out before i start a transmission change.
nevertheless i already have the clutch and used transmission sitting here,so i will do it anyway.

[makaveli1996]

what a mess!!!
ok so last saturday we changed following pts (what a torture):

-Clutch (new and stronger Sachs)
-Throw Out bearing (Sachs)
-Pilot bearing (bmw)
-crank seal
-new lube on all shifter pts.
-e46 transmission with 118.000 km

ok now the madness..i still have the rattle noise from the new Throw out bearing.I used grease on all pts recommened by bmw.* i used a torque wrench and the star patern to attach the flywheel and clutch case.(new bolts too)


i still have vibrations on my engine when accelerating!
The vibrations are also feelable if i press the clutch and rev it.
So my guess is its between flywheel and harmonic dampener or maybe the hydros.

the sound is pretty similar to a hammering that this guy has
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fweriatil6g
please check it out.i have this hammering sound that he got inside his car.if he stays in front of his engine i dont recognize such noises.on his i instantly hear something is off.i dont have that issue when standing in front of the engine.mine is idleing much smoother and does not make the hammering sound except you rev it a bit.
i checked tons of youtube videos.its not the chain and no rod failure.

guys help me out here.

[bmwman91]

You replaced your engine mounts, correct?

The vibration is ONLY related to engine speed, not wheel speed?

[makaveli1996]

sorry for the late reply,

yes my engine mounts are brand new.Yes the vibrations are only related to engine speed.not wheel speed.
i can drive with 180km/h and press the clutch and it fades out,then you have nothing- just hovering along.
No vibrations nothing.As soon as you clutch in again..you got it back.

i inspected the engine further more.
So basicvally the vibrations/hammering comes directly from the engine not from the guibo or driveshaft.
i jacked the car up and reved it on steady 2500 rpm and also shifted through gears have it rolling on the car jack.
its not coming from the driveshaft at all.
it must be something engine relatet.
i youtuved like crazy but wasnt able to find anyone who has this noise.it feels exactly like a offweighted tire/wheel.But from the bottom of the engine.

So i checked for contact areas between oilpan and steering rack ect.But there isnt a single area even near touching.
I removed the ruber inspection cover on the trannsmission to peak on to the flywheel.i put a metall bolt through there and carefully touched the rotating flywheel but wasnt able to feel an uneven area.but honestly its hard to tell this way.

iam afraid it could be a mainbearing?
i stumbled over dozen youtube links with engine failures on the e36,and all of them sound like what i experienced life on cars of friends,noone of those sound like what i have.
mine sounds like a half opened window hammering air through - the only difference - you can actually feel it in the car.

[bmwman91]

Very odd. So it runs pretty strong, but seems to have some serious balance issue.

The M42 was built (sadly) with only a half shell thrust bearing, and it is notorious for wearing out. It's always advisable to start the car (and turn it of) with the clutch pedal up so that the thrust bearing isn't loaded when the oil pressure is low. Can you check the crank for end play?

[makaveli1996]

hey bud,
i got another issue too that could be related.it is a uber high pitched whining sound.its so high that you could mistake it with a hearing crash or as you seem to call it sudden deafness.it occurs only when cold and for about 3-4 seconds.Could be a toasted bearing or some electronic component like a coil in a curcuit.

thanks for the infos on the thrust bearings.i saw they are the old design and part of the bearing itself.that sucks.
how can i check the crank for endplay?rip it forth and back on the front pulley (harmonic damper)?

maybe this helps you to point out the problem:
i also have a kind of a bouncing behaviour when pressing the clutch pedal immedite after i drove under load.for example driving in 2nd gear then fast press the clutch results in jittering,swinging and a shatter noise of a part that seems to move.it comes from the engine.
could this be the crank hitting front to rear on its axis?it sounds like a complete worn engine mount.

iam afraid my bearings are toasted.but cant hear any noise on those youtube videos fitting my vibrations/hammering.
its so deep sounding that you hardly cant devide it from engine noise and vibrations.

time to remove the oilpan?

[bmwman91]

Yeah, sounds like it is time to pull the upper pan and take a look in there.

Checking crank end play is sort of a pain to do. Basically pick a rigid reference point on it, get a dial indicator on there and then pull/push the crank to see how far it moves. I wouldn't recommend pulling on the damper itself, but you could probably buy some long M8 bolts, thread them into the crank (where the pulley is) and use those to push/pull. Removing the oil pan is probably easier.