Author Topic: diy cam regrinding  (Read 9936 times)

bmwman91

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2013, 12:51:59 PM »
Yeah, one of the first things that hit me was that it was going to cost more to DIY my own than to swap in E36 parts. DIYing would have been more fun probably. At the time I was just an engineering student and only had a cursory understanding of the things you mentioned...and it quickly hit me that I shouldn't go messing with the wheels' attachment if I didn't understand everything involved. And yeah...casting ferrous material is no joke.

Good link to the Lotus brochure. If that doesn't clearly convey the message that cam design is not "just eyeball it" stuff, I don't know what will.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:53:55 PM by bmwman91 »

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

wazzu70

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2013, 02:45:24 PM »
I'm sure the OP thinks Lotus is a bunch of rookies :) Colin Chapman what?


The hub is hard to improve on, especially for the cost it would take to do so. The spindle on the otherhand is much easier and requires a much smaller diameter of billett! This is not a new solution, but I've never been excited about the options out there.

The E36 stuff has the wrong geometry, even with 96+ spindles and LCAs. Its fine for a street car or a static show car, not for a track car though. The specs can match statically, but dynamically the suspension has different curves.
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

bmwman91

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2013, 07:21:36 PM »
Hmm, did not know that. So there is really no legit-handling 5-lug swap for the e30 then?

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318is91turbo

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2013, 10:58:24 PM »
the lotus link is awesome. and i know its not something you can just eyeball.. and if you dont understand the theory of cam grinding... ( saying i needed to weld metal on) then you have no place even commenting in the thread. you grind the round side. the valves can self adjust that little bit you grind of.. thus making you have a higher lift on the lobe side. its a simple concept to gain power. but to do it right is gonna take time. and i understand that. and am fully prepared to spend hours probably days without a proper,, proper meaning legit 10k$ machine lol.. to measure everything as i go and make sure i dont take off too much. dont worrie guys. when it comes out good. im gonna be buying up stock m42 cams and selling regrinds for a decent price. and your 5 lug hub idea is awesome. i had been curious about this myself. cant you just retap 5 lug wholes in the existing hub? i thought that seemed fairly plausible to achieve if you made a 5lug template with the centric bore to align the holes. i feel like you could even get away with missing all the 4 lug holes. goodluck with your new 5 lug endeavor.

bmwman91

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 12:31:54 AM »
RE: Hubs
The closest you could get would be to use one of the existing holes and add 4 new ones, making a 5x100 pattern. That gives you 18 degrees of separation between two of the tapped holes & existing ones, which is definitely not a whole lot. Not an idea I endorse. Building your own spindles from scratch is a better idea IMO. Who knows, maybe some existing BMW model uses the same spindle geometry and has a 5-lug pattern already in it.

RE: Cams
If you are going to grind down the base circles, you may need to look at custom lifter shims so they don't pop apart. Since you are a DIY kind of guy, you can in fact turn out custom spring seats and other parts on a lathe and send them for case hardening. The ones in my valve train were done exactly as such. How much max lift can you run before you hit coil binding issues? Beyond spring issues...how much higher can the lifter bodies sit before their oiling grooves no longer align with the oil galley holes in the cam trays? Meaning, the lifters get starved for oil when the lifter is in its rest position. Then, and this bit me in the ass, you have to look at how the increased lift on the nose of the cam is going to travel up the leading edge of the lifter. Too much lift on flat tappets and you get what happened to me (linked pic). You must run oil with high ZDDP, and MM's oil life tests concluded that only Castrol 10W-60 TWS and Mobil 1 15W-50 provide any sort of adequate protection.
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/images/my318is/pic/deadspring/int_c1.jpg

If your proposition is that you are taking so little off of the base circle that it won't affect anything else, then I can't even see why you are bothering with this. Every micron off of the base is a micron added to max lift, and you won't be able to reshape the nose much to increase duration unless you take a fair amount off of the base. "Cam grinding theory" goes well beyond "grind down the base circle to buy lift and more room for duration."

Welding to change the profile is perfectly acceptable as a practice and often employed in situations where the customer isn't planning to build a custom valve train (as well as in systems where they are). It means that the extra hardening / tempering step is needed, which isn't the case when reducing the base circle, but it's a trade-off.

Believe me, you are far from the first guy that has come through the forums intending to reinvent the cam modding industry. Wanting to do it to have some fun and learn is one thing, and totally fine. Claiming that you are going to out-do established cam companies and sell a superior product before even getting a single DIY-cam running is just silly. I hope you prove us wrong, really, it would be an epic DIY enthusiast moment. I won't believe it until I see it though.
     
I gotta ask again...what lift and duration are you targeting? Get some data going in here. It isn't exactly going to be a trade secret. MM publishes pretty reasonable details about the grinds for their Sport and Rally M42 engines. What re-shaping of the powerband are you going for? How far can you lift on the stock springs before the coils bind? Planning to dyno the car with stock cams and the modded ones?

Here's a pretty slick mod that you should look into while you have the cams out, BTW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVBlDMow3k
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 12:45:47 AM by bmwman91 »

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Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

bmwman91

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2013, 01:06:05 AM »
BTW...ever get that turbo rig up and running? Megasquirt? How about those AFM mods?

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

318is91turbo

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 09:42:42 PM »
soon. soon my little grasshoppers. your like a bunch of impatient obnoxious  highschoolers balling on mommy and daddy. i cant just snap my fingers and bam. waiting to get in a stable living enviroment. i am to move soon and dont want to set shit up just to move it again. im lazy. but give me a few months.

colin86325

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 06:01:51 AM »
Regarding cam grinding:

If you are on this forum asking how, do not attempt.  LOL

318is91turbo

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Re: diy cam regrinding
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2013, 05:01:27 PM »
lol. thanks colin. im not asking how tho. i didnt get a chance to pick up the cams so it could be a while. im gonna attempt it on some gokart engines i have first lol.. grind the cams and weld the tappets and grind down to adjust valve lash to proper spec. might pocket the flat top head on the kart engine to allow higher lift. max it out.