Author Topic: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run  (Read 4127 times)

bmwman91

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Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« on: June 15, 2013, 02:28:48 PM »
Something has been bugging me a little since I put the head back on the block. It was off due to a busted valve spring and I had that dealt with by the builder. This is a 1991 318iS (well, 321iS now )

After the first test drive for a few miles, I parked it in my parents driveway. We were standing out there talking about 5 minutes later and we heard a very loud metallic pop from the front of the car, almost like if someone dropped a socket on the fender. The logical answer is that something was just settling after the initial run as it cooled and contracted. Now, the dark side of my mind is imagining the head popping a big crack in the exhaust valve area, the block cracking or a head bolt popping apart. After I drove it the 17 or so miles home and left it over night, there were zero drips of anything on the ground and no funny smells under the hood. I did notice that my coolant expansion tank was empty, but I also forgot to turn the heater on when I was bleeding it, more air bleeds from the system in the first hour or so of driving, and I am sure that the hoses that sat for months expanded after use and are holding more coolant. I do not recall any white smoke, although it was dark and I was not looking for it, but as I left my parents' house they were watching and they didn't see white smoke (and you usually get it after a start if you have a bad HG or cracked head). Has anyone had a similar experience with a loud "pop" noise as the engine cools?

Anyway, I am 500 miles from home for a family member's graduation so my imagination and paranoia are running wild lol. We sure as hell didn't drive my E30 down here, and it is sitting at home.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 03:47:59 PM by bmwman91 »

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DesktopDave

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 04:05:36 PM »
Hard to say, but that does sound ominous.  I'd do all the obvious stuff, like pull off the cam cover to see if there's anything amiss.  I might also be tempted to check torque on the head bolts.

I'd also closely check the exhaust studs and the manifold, but I've never heard anything like you describe.
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2013, 04:14:37 PM »
Yeah, this seems like one of those "if you have to ask" situations. Dammit. I am so far beyond caring about this car right now. Even selling it is almost out of the question because I doubt it will pass SMOG until I get it on a dyno for some fine tuning (seems to run a tad rich). I suspect that I over-tightened one of the head bolts a little, but really not enough that I'd expect anything to break. The weird thing is that the pop occurred while the engine was sitting cooling off. I would expect things to break while it was heating up and expanding. My god, I just want this nonsense to end. I seriously just want to drive the car off of a cliff and be done with it. My wife and I are looking into newer cars for her so that I can take over her Civic. Putting the key in and not thinking about it for a second really is nice (and not having to dick around with stupid maintenance nonsense). Now I know why my dad stopped hot-rodding cars.

The worst part is just the wondering, though. If I knew what was up at least I would know what needed to be done. This thing has just been one mystery disaster after another. It is absolutely safe to say that my days as a car enthusiast are 100% done. Putting the key in and going is all I care about anymore...and this damn car sure as hell can't deliver that without terrifying me every time I run it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 04:20:51 PM by bmwman91 »

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Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Warsteiner

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 04:35:53 PM »
It could have been anything dude! Maybe it was a socket or something that you forgot about and left under the hood! Don't worry about it right now. Just keep an eye on things and drive the shit out of it like it was intended with that new motor.  And then go get your car to a dyno when all is sorted out. Then email me your dyno sheet so I know what I'm up against. Hahahaha.... 

Cheers,
~Ralph

bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
That was my mom's suggestion since she heard it too...maybe I just forgot about a socket. Not sure why it would fall down after sitting still, but who knows. I will pull the valve cover when I am home to just give things a look. I really really want to believe that all the nonsense is over, but my gut tells me that a proper engine doesn't make noises like that. We shall see, we shall see...

Thanks for the encouragement. It really could just have been something settling in as everything cooled and contracted for the first time, but based on my luck so far I am doubtful. I am not a superstitious kind of guy in any way, but this thing has me scared!

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Warsteiner

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 06:44:56 PM »
How does that saying go?..........Mom's always know best!

~R

bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 10:03:54 PM »
Ha! Indeed.

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bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 02:45:14 AM »
I had a big negative post typed out about how I am done with this car and whatnot, which is true, but in reality I have no easy way of ridding myself of it without taking a total loss on it. So, I need to figure out what to do with it.

These seem to be my options:
1) Clean the ICV and drive it. Drive the fuck out of it. Try to break it. Might as well have some fun if it is just going to grenade anyway. Just stay close to home. If it doesn't blow up then I guess it is OK. If it does, at least I can say that I got to break it before sending it to the crusher. All this tip-toeing around for the last 6 months is bullshit. If it is going to fail, it might as well be sooner than later.

2) Clean the ICV and snoop around under the valve cover. My worst-case guesses for what might have made the noise are: snapped head bolt, cracked head, cracked block, broken valve spring (it has OEM style dual's so maybe that's why it ran fine at low RPMs). My "if I am lucky" guesses are: contraction of the head and header flange as they cooled, one of the two intake manifold bracket nuts slipping as the manifolds contracted, a mystery tool under the hood dropping as the car sat stone still or the header-down pipe flange.  A busted head bolt is the only one of the "bad" scenarios that I can actually find easily. Cracked block/head would probably register with white smoke, milky oil or continuously disappearing coolant. If all of them are OK, I might as well go to option 1 after looking.

Either way, I am stuck with the car and have to drive it. I can't even sell the bastard easily because CA requires a SMOG cert to do so, unless I stick a salvage title on it which is then forever on there. This is the problem with driving the same model for 13 years. You develop a sort of 6th sense for them. The slightest noise can be significant, and a loud POP is certainly no exception.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Warsteiner

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 01:46:59 PM »
I vote for #1....

It's all good dude. It was probably the exhaust headers settling in and getting ready for all that power. Go look for that socket....

Cheers,
~Ralph

wazzu70

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 02:29:41 PM »
Pop off the valve cover and see if anything is obviously wrong. If not and it runs fine...just drive it. It will either be nothing or it will become really obvious what the issue is. At that point you can do whatever you want with the car.

Not my normal advice, but when you are at the end of your rope you are at the end of your rope!
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

DesktopDave

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 09:12:58 PM »
1) Clean the ICV and drive it. Drive the fuck out of it. Try to break it. Might as well have some fun if it is just going to grenade anyway. Just stay close to home. If it doesn't blow up then I guess it is OK. If it does, at least I can say that I got to break it before sending it to the crusher. All this tip-toeing around for the last 6 months is bullshit. If it is going to fail, it might as well be sooner than later.

IMHO this is the best option.
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'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 12:26:10 AM »
Well, I figured that the extra 20 minutes to do option 2 (looking under valve cover as Dave recommended) was worth possibly detecting something. Nothing to report. Head bolts are intact and snug, and I could not see anything else that looked abnormal. Exterior of engine looked normal all over.

So, I pulled the ICV and shot it out with TB cleaner. Definitely yucky, the TB cleaner was coming out yellow on the other side lol. Anyway, I put it all together and started it up. It idled a lot better, a little rough and still seeking up and down a little, but it was not dying. So, I took it to the nearest onramp and ran it up to 7500RPM. Pulls like hell. Flogged it a little more as my wife and I drove to our house (just bought one, still fixing some stuff before we move). When I checked under the hood, all the coolant seemed to be there and there was no milk on the dipstick or under the oil cap. No white exhaust smoke that I could see from the driver's seat, either.

After watering and raking some leaves, we left. The idle was super rough and seeking, almost stalling. After ~15 seconds it calmed down and drove normally as we went to the grocery store. When we left the store, it was stalling at idle again. After 15-20 seconds of me sitting on the gas pedal it stayed running, but with that "dip" in idle when you push the clutch in and let the engine go down to idle. My assumption is that there is still more crud in the ICV that spread around after I cleaned out the exposed stuff. I am going to take the ICV with me to work tomorrow and hook it up to a 12V supply and clean it with the door fully rotated. Maybe I will even stick the business end of it into the ultrasonic bath with some isopropyl alcohol for 15 minutes.

My only other guess about the loud noise, if it was not exhaust stuff settling, would be the intake manifold cracking or something. I have had vacuum leaks before though, and they don't usually do this. The ICV has not been cleaned in probably 6 years, so I assume it is that. If not, then I'll get in there with some duct tape and a bike pump to look for leaks. At least all that crap under the TB is gone now, making it vastly easier to access all vacuum hoses.

Anyway, positive results so far. No weird noises, pulls hard, no more black smoke when I floor it at high RPM. I also tightened one of the fuel feed lines' clamps down by the chassis (where the return line connects to the chassis under the brake booster). It was loose enough that the hose could rotate VERY easily on the metal chassis hard line. I tightened it a bunch, and it can still rotate on there a little, but the raw gas smell that I sometimes had after parking is gone. I replaced those lines ~7 months ago when I got the engine the first time so maybe I forgot something (I also used a little silicone dielectric grease on the hard line since the hoses are a PITA to get on dry). I have a ton of high pressure fuel line left over, so maybe I will just replace both lines again this weekend and wipe off the silicone.

Question...what is the easiest way to bleed the pressure from the fuel system, without just pulling a hose and letting it all piss everywhere? I noticed that the feed / high pressure line was a littlesoft and squishy, and the return line was firm. Maybe I made a big oops and used vent hose for the feed line? Looks like I have some shit to check tomorrow lol.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 02:07:38 AM by bmwman91 »

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Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

colin86325

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 07:20:59 AM »
It really does ound like the pop was due to the exhaust header settling.

My car will idle poorly if I have previosuly disconnected power to the ECU.  It takes a while for it to re-learn how to idle, but eventually it goes back to normal.

To bleed fuel pressure you can remove the fuel pump relay while the car is running and then let the car stall.  There will still be some fuel pressure, but not nearly as much.

bmwman91

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 02:39:28 PM »
Thanks, yeah that seems like a pretty easy, safe way to go about it.

I took a look at the fuel lines in the daylight, and the difference is that the feed line is the original one which has a different texture than the return line that I replaced. If I remember correctly, the feed line was really stuck onto the hard line and since it did not look cracked I just left it. I'll get in there for a double check later today or maybe tomorrow.

I flogged it a little more this morning when I met a debris disposal guy at the house. FUCK it pulls hard. I really don't want to get re-attached to this damn car, but I can't help but smile when I drive it like a go-kart and it delivers flawlessly. Even if it does blow up, at least I got to flog it a couple of times first.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Nick_318is

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Re: Loud Metallic Pop After First Run
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2013, 08:05:27 AM »
Good luck getting it sorted.  For your sake I really hope you can get it working reliably and consistently after what I can only imagine was a lot of money getting the new engine and you can enjoy the car again.