Author Topic: The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story  (Read 9638 times)

bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 12:21:48 PM »
Quote from: wazzu70;111685
I would look into a MM 1.8L based engine, basically stock rebuild with their little improvements. If you want some more go juice, cams really wake the engine up.

For the trans, I would just get a good used ZF from an e36. A much stronger trans and easy to come by. The ratios are different so you need to get a shorter rear gear ratio. Get one from a Z3 thats a torsen unit. Diffs rarely go bad in BMWs. In the race cars I work on, we mostly use junkyard diffs.


I didn't see any stock-M42 builds listed on MM's site. Is it something I can call & ask them for?

As for swapping in an E36 tranny, is it a direct swap? What rear end ratio ends up getting me closest to what the original tranny & 4.10 diff gave?

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
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keflaman

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 08:59:30 PM »
Check a few dealerships nearby and you might be surprised. I wonder what shipping would be for you from Tischer BMW of Silver Springs, MD?

http://www.trademotion.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=11001727883&make=BMW&action=oePartSearch&siteid=214672

colin86325

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 08:23:27 AM »
Quote from: bmwman91;111684
Where can I order a new factory engine from?

I called up Bavarian Auto Exchange & they ask $5500 for a fully stock rebuilt one w/ a 5 year warranty. It is $6500 with their performance option ("20% power increase"). So, that sounds mostly like the same thing as Metric Mechanic's Sport engine.


Bavarian Engine Exhange probably will sell you an engine with 90,000 miles on it that has been spraypainted and has some seals replaced.


http://www.bmwmercedesparts.com has the engine for the price I listed and offers free shipping for orders over $500.
http://www.getbmwparts.com also has the engine for a little bit more $.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 08:26:44 AM by colin86325 »

wazzu70

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2012, 11:23:27 AM »
I looked at the MM brochure. The sport 2000 would be the closest to what I was talking about. I would call them and talk about options though to reduce cost like using the original pistons. They are capable of anything and are nice guys to talk to.

The ZF trans bolts up, but you need to have the driveline shortened. I have a spreadsheet to show the effects of different rear gear ratios with different trans options.




My rebuild thread if you want some ideas: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89208
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2012, 11:38:38 AM »
Thanks guys, I will make some calls to these places about the remanufactured engine. I am OK with ~$3500 (after core refund) if it gets me a like-new stock M42 that I can wail on for another 200k miles.

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ironpaws

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2012, 12:12:30 PM »
I have an identical piece with 150K on it. All original.
If that kind of trouble was happening,Id swap for either
a boneyard motor with under 100K or the fresh one for
the fresh one money. Its honestly two decent choices,
just depending on your interrest in keeping the car.
E30s are the bigget bargain going in this part of the
world,people dont seem to know how durable they are.
If youre fine with gambling,go cheap and feel that wonderful
bulge of three grand in your pocket,just live with the results.
Its just nuts to plop any more into a quarter of a million
mile motor.
My sedan was from your neck of the woods,and is back east,
now. Still rust free,so you can drive that thing for a while.
Good fortune.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:15:24 PM by ironpaws »

bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2012, 02:55:11 PM »
Well, I called a couple of the places with the remanufactured motors. It is a discontinued part, and not available anywhere anymore. Bummer!

I contacted Metric Mechanic to see if there is any way to work out a stock-rebuild with them (and with their improvements to the crank oiling system & timing chain). I guess I can always go with the $1100 mystery motor from a place nearby (inspected, 2 year parts warranty). If I knew of a reputable shop in the area, I would just call them up & price out a thorough overhaul.

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bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2012, 04:58:30 PM »
Well, I talked to my dad a little bit. Since the car is at their place, and I'll be around there for Easter, we decided that we will at least pop open the timing case covers to investigate. If it is just simple bolt-on parts that crapped out, we'll see about replacing those, changing the oil & at least having it run. On top of whatever broke, the chain will get replaced too since it was smashing into stuff.

If the timing case itself is busted, then I just don't know what I am going to do. I have pulled an M42 timing case 3 times now, twice in the last 6 years. It is a pain in the ass, and I am tired of that particular repair!

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bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2012, 11:40:37 PM »
Alrighty, I spent 45 minutes opening up the motor. Having a crank-locking tool really makes that 22mm crank damper bolt a piece of cake! So, what did I find? Was it the guide rail, like I had guessed?

Does anything look funny from this angle?


If nothing stood out, then how about from this angle?


Yeah, you may be noticing something above. Well, yeah here it is. Someone make a rage/FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU image macro for me, quick!


There was a pile of aluminum shavings up on the top of the lower cover, above the water pump. I guess the chain was milling away on something.


If you were wondering WHAT it was milling away on, then here is your answer!


So, here is where I am at. I am NOT repairing the motor. This is the second busted timing case, and the third mechanical failure in that general region. The motor has 220,200 miles on it, the previous owner (I got this in 2005 with 140,000 miles) mistreated it & wasn't great on maintenance, and I have been driving the dog shit out of the motor ever since then. It is well known that the thrust bearing on the crank is a weak spot, and I have no idea what condition that is in at this point, and I feel that it is at the end of its useful life without a full rebuild. The chassis is mostly free of issues, aside from some niggling cosmetic ones, so a new motor could get me another decade of use.

Although I have been super indecisive about what to do, I decided that I don't want to be a goober & drive a shiny new car around because that just isn't me. While I would gain some comfort from a new, reliable cookie-cutter vehicle, I just can't do it. Especially in this area, just about every 20-something with a tech job is cruising around in a sporty new car. While I am also a 20-something with a tech job, I prefer to keep a lower profile & maintain my grease-monkey status.

So, I am going to work with Metric Mechanic on something. My dream, for YEARS, has been a Rally 2100 motor with all of the options. It is a silly amount of money, but it is less than a new car, and I would have to hope that those motors are absolutely bomb-proof. Given that the rest of the chassis seems to be in good condition, a new motor could mean another decade of relatively pleasant ownership. How many folks here have MM motors, and what are your impressions of their reliability? It seems like durability & quality are their main focus, and everyone seems to regard them well. If I was to drop a silly amount of cash on a MM motor, I'd have to KNOW that I wouldn't need to do more than change the oil & maybe a hose or two for the next 100,000 miles. Sheer power is not my concern, and I am not considering motor swaps. 205HP in a 318iS chassis strikes me as the perfect amount of power. Being that I almost killed myself driving like an idiot back in 2005, I am over the idea of having "lots" of power. All that would get me is trouble! I also don't really participate in track events, but I would like to get back into autoX.

How about SMOG compliance? Going to 11 or 11.5:1 compression with an MM motor will increase the NOx emissions. By how much, I can't say. A fresh catalytic converter usually has me passing SMOG with damn near zero emissions (with a new cat, I was puffing out less emissions than my fiancee's 2003 Civic). I can't afford to get a fancy motor & then NOT pass CA SMOG lol.

Anyway, my fiancee is actually sort of supportive of me getting a built motor since it will make me happy. I haven't told her that a Rally 2100 w/ options will be $10k, and that I just might throw in a MM rebuilt transmission since I know that the input shaft on mine is dying anyway. Still, if I can get new-car reliability in my lovable old-car, I am OK with it. I am a frugal guy, and I live well beneath my means the majority of the time. I am a big saver. In truth, the whole reason I save is so that I am prepared for any times in life where I have trouble & need to be able to deal with it without doing any "creative financing" (loan sharks, borrowing from family, etc). Well, this is one of those times, so I am strongly considering going for an option that I have been wanting for a LONG time.

I am sort of hesitant to drive a car around with a motor that expensive. I would absolutely work out an insurance plan that covers every penny of added value since it could get crashed, or some asshole could steal & gut the car. While that is unlikely, you just never know. Where that person would sell the motor without someone noticing is another story, especially since I would have serial numbers engraved in all sorts of spots, but I want to be covered anyway.

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens. It is looking like I am not bailing on the E30 lifestyle though!

EDIT
The car gave me a clear sign that this motor was not to be repaired. I got a death cry from it. About 6 miles from home with the loose timing chain, the f***ing horn button on the steering wheel started sticking (needless to say, I was irate). So here I am driving down the highway, clattering & randomly honking like an imbecile. The car was giving me a message. "Get a new motor. Oh, and fix my left-side horn button kthx."
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 11:43:30 PM by bmwman91 »

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Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

colin86325

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2012, 04:35:30 PM »
Wow, at least you figured out what the problem was.  I think this makes a clear case for upgrading to the M44 lower timing case ig I ever have my motor apart.

I really hope you are able to pull the trigger on the MM engine!  Best of luck. :)

wazzu70

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2012, 11:46:57 PM »
That is pretty nuts about the idler. I agree with Colin, great argument to use the M44 lower timing case. Really wish I had known to do that on my build :mad: Oh well, live and learn.

Let us know what direction you decide to go. I would seriously consider just using another trans or upgrading to the ZF. It will be much cheaper and generally the transmissions are pretty stout.

Just trying to help you spend your $$ wisely :)
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

keflaman

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2012, 07:00:09 AM »
I appreciate you taking the time to post pictures of what you found and happy to hear of your intended course of action. Thanks for the updates!

bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2012, 11:34:04 AM »
Thanks guys!

Yeah, I REALLY want to keep things under $10k. My fiancee sort of is my voice of reason, and while it would be sweet to drop $15k on a new engine/tranny/diff...the last two items don't really seem to have anything wrong with them. I also have an extra tranny with about 50000 less miles on it that has been collecting dust for 7 years. Transmission failures really do seem pretty unusual, and I am not sure if I have ever heard of a blown differential in an E30 unless it had some sort of crazy FI setup. The small case LSD I put in doesn't have as much locking action as I would like, but it certainly works (RR tire was stuck in mud on steep road side, LR tire was on pavement, red-lined it in 1st gear & got out).

Has anyone here seen or heard of a Getrag 240 blowing up? How about a small case 4.1:1 LSD?

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wazzu70

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2012, 12:34:16 PM »
If used with similar power to factory, no blowings up are common. Rob was blowing G240s in his turbo race car, but you arent aiming for that level of power.

You can get a nice torsen diff from a Z3. Might need the medium case rear subframe though, not sure if they came in small case.
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

bmwman91

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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 05:07:24 PM »
Well, I spent an hour on the phone with Jim R. over at Metric Mechanic. I have a quote on the way for a Rally 2100 M42 with all the options. Apparently their price list is a tad outdated, and the total cost is going to be about 20% higher than I expected. Once I get the quote, I'll think about it & then decide what to do. It is a lot of money, although way less than a new car. It sounds like I should be able to get hundreds of thousands of miles from the motor, and decades of trouble-free ownership. He also said that CA's 91 octane gas and SMOG test should not pose any issues for me. Man I hope that is true, because this doesn't strike me as something you can just return!

So, we shall see what happens. The price bugs me a little only because it is sort of above what I was prepared for, but I certainly don't think that it is unfair. Considering the amount of labor that goes into this, and that an M47 crank alone pushes $1500 these days, it is an expensive example of, "you get what you pay for." I know that if I do this, I'll like what I get. I've been cheap & saved for so long that I seem to have forgotten that the whole point of saving was to buy myself options when I needed them!

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?