Recirculation Baffles next to Blower motor

[tfrain]

So I replaced my resistor.  Actually I had to rig up some electrical tape to cover the top of it as that piece of plastic that spans across UNDER the white connector on the motor was broken, and speed 3 would stop working when the cover was installed.  Just pushing it a little would apparently cause a short or something somewhere.  Anyway, the fan is now working, HOWEVER.  

I noticed previously when I hit recirc button I could still smell outside air and it did not blow any harder than previously.  While under the cowl, I realized the baffles under there weren't working.  I cannot for the life of me figure out what mechanism is supposed to close them.  I could not see or feel anywhere where there would be a hard connection to them.  The one on the passenger side was sort of "stuck" in the open position.  It felt like it was supposed to be in that position if that makes sense.  It was mechanically designed to be "stuck" in that position.  The driver side was not "stuck" in the open position but had the same detent or whatever.

Where the heck is the disconnect on these things?  I'm a fairly decent mechanically minded person, but I couldn't figure the damned things out!!.  I hear something moving under the dash and then stopping when depressing the recirc button, then the same thing when you turn it off.  

I was thinking of removing the radio and seeing if I could see if something was disconnected.  

I would appreciate any help from someone more knowledgeable on this system.

THANKS GUYS!
Tom

[DesktopDave]

I thought there were two electrical servos on the rear of the HVAC box for the recirc switch.  Lemme see if I can get to my old spare & I'll snap some pics.

***edit***
That's definitely the way it is.  There are two servos, that pull pushrods, that open the doors.

[tfrain]

Thanks Dave.  Since my initial posting I had ascertained that there were two motors that are supposed to open/close these flaps.  I have some questions.  I can hear the motors actuating what sounds like a flap, but when I have the cowl open, nothing is happening on that end.  My main question has to do with the CONNECTION between the motors and the flaps on the blower housing.  HOW IN THE HECK DO THEY ATTACH TO THE FLAPS???!!!??.  I cannot for the life of me figure it out.  I can feel no hole, no bracket, no nothing that some sort of armature would attach to.  I can see a white plastic lever assembly INSIDE the flap area - you can push the flap up to "Lock" it in the open position.  Or you can move the flap down to let it sort of just hang there, semi open.  I believe there is something missing from the blower housing area but I just can't figure out what it is.  I'm going to take the radio out to see if I can see it in there, but I just can't seem to see either the route by which a linkage would connect to those flaps.  I'm also linking to a photo I got off off e30tech showing the whole shebang.  The red arrows point to the flaps and the motors that move them.  The blue line is the part I don't get - how the motors attach to the flaps at the flap side.  I'm trying to avoid pulling the whole freaking motor out to figure out what the deal is here.

Also, just so I understand - number 3 in the photo - those are referred to as "fresh air flaps" - which means the flaps which distribute air to the vents on the dash, correct?  They have nothing to do with recirculation in the car, right?  They are moved by the control levers, not these motors, right?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14399250/HVAC%20E30%20arrows.jpg

[tfrain]

Ok so I messed with it more last night.  Removed the OBC and the Radio.  I can see that the passenger side motor is turning the linkage, but it doesn't appear to be connected to anything on the blower housing end.  It pushes a rod up behind the heater core.  I was finally able to see a little hole up behind the bypass flap on the blower housing.  A little square maybe 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch hole.  I assume that is where some sort of linkage is supposed to come up and mate with the flaps.  There is nothing coming out of that hole now, AND I could not feel anything on either flap that would be indicative of some sort of connection.  No tabs or holes or linkages or anything on that flap on either side.  

The driver side motor did not turn at all, but has the same linkage there.

So:
1.  Is that little square hole on the motor side of the flap, on the floor of the housing, the hole where the linkage is supposed to go through?
2.  How is this missing linkage supposed to connect to the flap?
3.  I can't seem to find any parts or diagrams or anything indicating what should go there.  I'm guessing something is missing and would appreciate if anyone knows what this part is to let me know.
4.  I'm assuming I will have to, at a minimum, take out the blower and housing to get to this area and can't fish something through there.
5.  Will taking the driver knee bolster out be enough to reach and replace the driver side motor (after I test electrics to it of course)
6.  It would be bobo, but I I have half a mind to just get a choke cable or something and rig it up to just the driver side baffle and run it out down by my leg or something where it would not be unsightly and close up the passenger side baffle.  The only time I would really care about getting fresh air into the car is when defrosting on a humid morning, and I could just open it up manually when I need to do that.  Again, this is very bobo or janky or buddy or whatever you want to call it, but it would work.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciate.

PS - while in there, I discovered why the top control lever for the vents was unlit.  The fiber optic cable to it had been cut.  I pulled out the cable through the little whole in the clip, removed the metal crimp on terminator, pulled the length of cable from the light diffuser that was still transmitting light, and just rerouted it where it will run above the levers (instead of through the dedicated path), and put the terminator on the newly fished, lit up, cable.  I armored it with electrical tape since it will be sliding back and forth across the bottom of the radio now.  But now ALL MY LIGHTS WORK!.  This has been bugging me.

Thanks,
tom

[tfrain]

bump

[colin86325]

Does this help?

[DesktopDave]

I noted a pushrod on my actuators that goes right to the flaps.  It doesn't go down to the heater core at all.

[tfrain]

Thanks Colin.  Unfortunately, that schematic looks to be for the "Fresh Air Flaps" that direct air to the ducts that blow on your face in the dash.  

My issue is with the "Bypass Air Flaps" - click my dropbox link above and you'll see what I'm talking about.  The flaps up around the blower housing.  There are two motors that move two rods that go up under the heater core (at least I think they do - they bend where they go up behind the plastic housing and stuff there against the firewall) and act to push upon the flaps up on the blower housing in the cowl.  At least it appears they do.  That is what I am trying to figure out.  There are two square holes in the bottom of the blower housing inside where those flaps are that it APPEARS should have some sort of rod or arm or something that goes back down to meet up with the arm from the two motors right behind the radio.  It also APPEARS that there would be some sort of attachment point on the flaps themselves, but I can't feel or see anything of that nature.  

I'm hoping someone has dealt with this before and knows what is up with my bypass flaps and what parts I need to fix it.

Again, thanks for taking the time to post this.  I really appreciate it Colin.

Tom

Does this help?

[tfrain]

So Dave, yours goes straight from the motors up to the flaps by the blower?  

My pushrods (they look like oxidized galvanized metal to me) go back towards the firewall, then appear to make a sharp turn upward behind a bunch of plastic stuff, which I assume to be the heater core housing.  Based on the location of the square holes in the bottom of the blower housing, they pushrods would have to go under the heater core, right?

Does what I'm saying make sense?

I'm leaving my dash and all taken apart while I try and figure this out.  Driving my Civic to work.  Having an extra car sure is nice!  

I noted a pushrod on my actuators that goes right to the flaps.  It doesn't go down to the heater core at all.

[tfrain]

Colin - on that link you sent with the photos, I found this:



and this:



I can clearly see both motors as shown on the bottom left photo in the second picture.  It runs forward under a hexagonal shaped metal rod running across the car, driver to passenger side, and the pushrod disappears behind this.

The bottom right picture of the ball and socket joint.  Where the heck is that connection!~?!?  - once I find that out, I can hopefully make some headway.  From the description onthese pages, it appears that both the fresh air flaps and the bypass flaps are operated by these pushrods. Is that true?  

I am confused as hell by this thing!

[colin86325]

Hi, glad you were able to navigate the linked pictures.  I have never really messed with the HVAC box, so I'm just as confused as you!

It would make sense that a single device operates the fresh air flaps and bypass flaps.  Outside (fresh) air is either admitted or is excluded from the system, but not both.


Anyway, best of luck and hope you are able to post up a solution soon.

[tfrain]

Ok - so I took out the knee bolster and the pedal panel thing.  I still cannot see where the rod connects.  It is clearly loose or broken as it will just wiggle around in there.  Both sides will.  Does anyone know where this rod from the motors is supposed to connect?  Is there some sort of connection outside in the blower motor housing, or is the only connection to these rods inside the cabin?  I still cannot figure out how the freakin baffles on the motor housing are supposed to work.

[DesktopDave]

I have a complete HVAC case out of an older e30.  Let me know what you need pictures of, I'm a bit confused as well.

[tfrain]

in this photo:



where does the rod indicated by the green arrow terminate?  What is it attached to on the end where the arrow is pointing?  Is it supposed to end at the flaps out on the blower motor housing in the cowl? If so, I can't figure out how?

IF the red circled box shows where these rods attach/terminate, where the heck is that?  My rods are attached at the motor, but I can flop them around with my hands, so they are unattached to whatever they attach to because I am ALWAYS getting fresh air in the cabin.

Thanks Dave!
Tom

[DesktopDave]

Mine look a bit different than the example above.  This box came from a '91 325i IIRC.  OK, here they are:

Rear view, driver's side:

You can see the rear of the pushrod snapped into the electric servo.  It heads forward above the heater core box.

Side view, driver's side:

Looking at it from the driver's footwell, you can see the servo on the right, and the rod heading behind the left-hand duct.

Flap view, driver's side at firewall mount flange:

This is the view from outside the car...those nuts you see are the ones that hold the flange onto the car's exterior...firewall/cowl/plenum/whatchamacallit.  The pushrod clips to that plastic arm and actuates it.