Author Topic: M42 head work (Read 35981 times)

Warsteiner · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:14:27 PM »

MLM:

They have to be M3 cam trays because the M5X trays are 35mm.

These are still hydraulic not solid.

Yes you can keep the M42 cams. I had custom cams cut that are only 250's but more aggressive than the Schricks.

My Math was wrong the first time and I will go back and change that post.
This is what I measured on a scale:

Lifter Bucket:
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
33mm= 44.0gms 35mm= 64.5gms 35mm= 77.09gms
44x16=704gms 64.5x16=1,032gms 77.09x16=1,233gms

Keeper:
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
1.0gms 1.0gms 2.5gms
1x16=16gms 1x16=16gms 2.5x16=40gms

Retainers:
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
8.0gms 10.0gms 19.0gms
8x16=128gms 10x16=160gms 19x16=304gms

Springs:
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
Beehive= 37.0gms Beehive= 45.0gms Dual Spring=62.0gms
37x16=592gms 45x16=720gms 62x16=992gms

Intake Valve: (x8)
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
33mm= 45.5gms 33mm= 45.5gms 33mm= 58.5gms
45.5x8=364gms 45.5x8=364gms 58.5x8=468gms

Exhaust Valve: (x8)
M42/S50 M42 Light M42 Stock
30.5mm= 46.0gms 30.5mm= 46.0gms 30.5mm= 54gms
46x8=368gms 46x8=368gms 54x8=432gms

Total:
S50 Light M42 Light M42 Stock
2,172 grams 2,660 grams 3,469grams
4.79 lbs 5.86 lbs 7.65 lbs

S50: Save 1,297 grams or 2.86 lbs of Total Valve Train Mass over stock.

S50: Save 488 grams or 1.08 lbs of Total Valve Train Mass over the M42 Light.

M5X: Save 809 grams or 1.78 lbs of Total Valve Train Mass over stock.

Warsteiner · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:19:12 PM »

Hope all of you can decifer the text because it didn't look like that when I sent it...LOL

Just read it across from S50.........to M42 Light........to M42 Stock

Ralph

bflan2001 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:29:02 PM »

Thanks for the info, Ralph! So the 'M42 light' setup are all M5x parts?

I already have a rebuilt head so I guess all I can do at this point are the lifter buckets. :/

Warsteiner · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:20:21 PM »

Yes the M42 Light set is all M5x parts... though the valves and keepers are the same as the S50.

Well that all depends on what you want to do... You can change to lighter lifters and change your springs too but that also means your retainers as well because that is what your spring sits on and is held in with the keepers.

~Ralph

wazzu70 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 19, 2011, 12:56:10 AM »

Quote from: Warsteiner;108262

I have not seen my car yet to see if my E30M3 exhaust with custom header from 666 Fabrication was finished. I will start a new thread and post all the goodies. However I can't post pics here so I'll work with Denis or someone to help me with that......

Until the next post......

FYI... did you know that you can adapt the 33mm cam trays from the E36M3 to work on our heads? hahahahaha........

Ralph, I can host pictures for you

Good to know on the 33mm e36M3(US) cam trays can work. I never thought of that but it makes total sense if you shorten them. If you wanted to go solid lifters, there are a lot of options out there for that.

I read recently that the M50tu lifters are lighter than our lifters and a re a direct replacement. I have not verified this myself though.

I want to get a VW lifter and take it apart and compare to the BMW unit. I have worked on many VWs and generally I think they are cheap cars. If there was easy weight savings to be had by using an off the shelf lifter I am sure BMW would have done so. I question whether the VW lifter is up to task as much as the BMW unit. Only a side by side comparison can show the difference.

bwawuz02 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 19, 2011, 10:43:41 AM »

The VW and BMW lifters were both made by INA, save your time.
The VW/M52 lifters are 49 grams, so x16 that's 80 grams or 2.82 ounces or .176 pounds more than the S50's. I'll stick with the drop in lifters and not bother with trying to source M3 cam trays that have to be modified to fit. Good info all around tho

Quote from: Boyracer;21623

There has been some talk about using 49 g hydraulic lifters from some VW models to lighten the valvetrain.

I happened to notice from internet ETK that BMW also uses 49 g lifters on M52 engines!

I did bit of calculations (found useful equation from a book I have) and valvetrain (lifter, spring, spring plate, valve, collet) would be about 10% lighter with 49 g lifter compared to standard 67 gr lifter. That means that everything else staying as it is, engine rev limiter could be safely raised from 6800 to 7200 rpm.

M52 engine does have other interesting parts too... Spring plate is 2 g lighter (8 vs 10) and spring itself is whopping 13 g lighter (38 vs 51).

If those parts would be used on M42, valvetrain mass would be 18,8% lighter which means safe rpm goes from 6800 to 7550. That is of course in case that lighter M52 spring has same spring rate as standard M42 spring. I somehow doubt this as I suspect that BMW just optimized valve train power loss by using softer springs (hence their lower weight) made possible by lower lifter and valve plate masses.

Anyone know actual spring rates of standard BMW springs? Or Dbilas or Shrick springs? Lighter M52 lifter and 20% stiffer springs would guarantee happy revving all the way up to 8000 rpm

And your math is off a bit Ralph. You didn't separate the different weights of the in/ex valves so really it's:

M42/S50 = 2,172g = 4.788lbs
M42 Light/VW = 2,252g = 4.964lbs
M42 Light = 2,660g = 5.864lbs
M42 Stock = 3,470g = 7.650lbs

Best answer, get an M42 head from 9/1992 or later and add VW/M52 lifters.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BE53&mospid=47480&btnr=11_1143&hg=11&fg=25

Quote from: wazzu70;109028

I question whether the VW lifter is up to task as much as the BMW unit. Only a side by side comparison can show the difference.

Warsteiner · « **Reply #36 on:** December 19, 2011, 01:37:51 PM »

bwawuz02.....my calcs were done with 6mm valves for the S50 and M42 Light.

I used MM's info plus what I measured myself. Not sure what you mean about the valves. There is a difference between the 6mm and 7mm.

You also have to remember that there is a bigger difference in spring weights!!

Cheers,
~Ralph

bwawuz02 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 19, 2011, 06:02:07 PM »

I know the 6/7mm valves are different, that's why I got a 95 318ti engine for my build

you added the weight of each valve-train component together and multiplied by 16, but there are only 8 intake and 8 exhaust valves. look at it again, you'll see it. I noticed it when I was comparing your numbers to MM's brochure, which lists theirs at 166 grams per valve. Your numbers add in 8 extra intake and 8 extra exhaust valves.

My name is Jesse, btw.

Warsteiner · « **Reply #38 on:** December 19, 2011, 06:06:35 PM »

Jesse,
I guess we have a whole new car if we get 32 valves don't we??

I will look at that and change the math again........

Thanks for the heads up dude.

~Ralph

victell · « **Reply #39 on:** January 03, 2012, 02:52:50 AM »

Question...

Is the purpose of these lightweight parts to reduce valve / valvetrain float, and to ultimately allow a higher redline?

If so, how high? What would cam specs look like up there?

Warsteiner · « **Reply #40 on:** January 03, 2012, 05:37:51 PM »

Yes it might reduce valve float but I'm not sure how high you can go with the hydraulics. I've heard of 7500rpm all day long, MM supposedly goes 7700rpm but you can definitely can go higher with solid lifters.

Cam specs are all dependent on what you want to do with the engine. Race, street, etc... I went 250/250 with 10.4mm lift but its more aggressive than the Schrick 256's.
You can go balls to the wall with cams and have a high peak HP number but be a dog down low or you can make your cams be more moderate and get tons of down low grunt with a nice pull to 7500-7800rpm all day long. That's what I did with the 250/250 combo.

Cheers,
~Ralph

bwawuz02 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:17:18 AM »

who did the cams for you ralph?

Warsteiner · « **Reply #42 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:00:06 PM »

Dick Chiang at Dynospot Racing
http://www.dynospotracing.com/index.html

~R

wazzu70 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 05, 2012, 01:21:44 AM »

I have some old reground delta cams 272deg (not made anymore). They are better than stock, but they are a sacrifice with higher duration and not much more lift.

I would much rather run some real custom cams. VAC sells different grinds as well as Catcams cams. Billet cams are going to be a much better way to go.

Web cams in California also has a lot of grinds. They do the MM cams from what I hear.

wazzu70 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 05, 2012, 01:22:28 AM »

Quote from: bwawuz02;109037

Wow, thanks!