Author Topic: Yet Another stroker M42 (Read 67790 times)

D. Clay · « **Reply #75 on:** March 24, 2007, 02:21:07 PM »

Just reread this thread. As a newbie to the internals and displacement increase options of the M42, it contains the answers to a lot of questions regarding bore and stroke options, parts, etc. Maybe we could "Sticky" this as a reference or perhaps some of the engine folks could summarize the info and "Sticky" that. I love the pics of things such as the crank modification.

nobrakese36 · « **Reply #76 on:** March 25, 2007, 09:55:41 PM »

Quote from: cecotto;18697

Finally got around to taking some images of the Dbilas individual throttle body setup.

They are 45mm in diameter.

Do those hoses connect to the idle control valve?

sumyungguy · « **Reply #77 on:** March 25, 2007, 10:29:34 PM »

Carrillo makes some good rods, you may want to look into them

Carrillo

Theres no listing on their site but they only make rods and that says a lot. My shop also had a 700 hp 4cyl forced induction honda motor with their rods, if that counts for anything.

cecotto · « **Reply #78 on:** March 26, 2007, 12:32:54 PM »

Quote from: nobrakese36;22197

Do those hoses connect to the idle control valve?

Yes the big hoses with the T-connector is for the idle control valve. Theres a bore between the tow bodies which gives the supplied air passage to all the cylinders..

The small one is just a hack way of plugging the vacuum measureing nipples, instead of using the intended plugs.

cecotto · « **Reply #79 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:29:25 PM »

With empty pockets it's hard to do real progress, but it feels good when you're able to do a little anyway.

I've had the block standing in a corner for months now, and the bearings in a small box beside it. Also i bought some plastiguage a while back. So i pretty much have what it takes to measure the main bearings out. So this is what i've been doing this evening.

For those unaware of what plastiguage is, here's a small explanation.. It's a thin presission extruded plastic strip which you place on the bearing to be measured. Then you put the bearing cap on top of it and torque it to spec. Then you remove the bearing cap again. Now the plastic guage has been crushed. If the clearance is large the plastiguage will be a thin line. But if the clearance is tight it will be a wide line.

The main bearing radial clearance tolerences on the M42 is: 0.02mm - 0.058mm

My clearances turned out to be supringsingly even: ~0.038mm, which i think will be fine fo my engine. I guess it will allow for better oil flow than the minimum clearance. (I won't stop my habbit of looking to the S42 for what's specified for that: 0.04mm - 0.05mm)

For those thinking i'm lucky it turned out good.. We're able to infulence the results with a little work before ordering the bearings. They are available in different color codes, and each color is assosiated with a specified crank-bearing diameter. So once the crank is measured out. You just have to select the bearings to match from a table. (available here: http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985)

jpod999 · « **Reply #80 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:59:48 PM »

I have been thinking of buying and M42 block and building it up. I love my car and the engine, but it would be nice having a bit more power. I rode in a friends M20 E30 car that was stroked and bored and really liked it. Makes me want to do the same type thing to an M42.

cecotto · « **Reply #81 on:** April 18, 2007, 11:45:06 AM »

I came to think about the fact the bearings on BMW's modern engines(~M40 --> M54) are pretty much the same.

So i ordered the lower guidebearing for a M50, to see if it fit the the M42 engine. for a full 360-degree

guide bearing. As some of you might be aware metric mechanic offeres this with special machining on the

bearing caps. Which in their case also includes a 360-degree oil-groove on the bearings.

So for those interested, here's the partnumbers:
-----------------------------------------------
11.21.2.241.934 Lower "retrofit" guidebearing -Yellow- (STD)
11.21.2.241.935 Lower "retrofit" guidebearing -Green- (STD)
11.21.2.241.936 Lower "retrofit" guidebearing -white- (STD)

I'll post an image later..

MarkD · « **Reply #82 on:** April 23, 2007, 11:03:29 PM »

Otto,

why do you want to use Haltech instaed of the Motronic? You can easily control the motor with the stock ecu and save a lot of money and wiring headaches.

If you send me logs from an Innovate LM-1, I can tune it.

MarkD

cecotto · « **Reply #83 on:** April 24, 2007, 01:50:35 AM »

Hi Mark.

I want to get rid of the airflow meter, as this is restrictive.

I've got a guy who can tune it on a dyno, I dont think it's a good idea to tune a car like you suggest. But thanks.

I'm looking at other ECU than the Haltach now, so we'll se how it goes

Quote from: MarkD;24361

Otto,

why do you want to use Haltech instaed of the Motronic? You can easily control the motor with the stock ecu and save a lot of money and wiring headaches.

If you send me logs from an Innovate LM-1, I can tune it.

MarkD

fiskerendk · « **Reply #84 on:** May 22, 2007, 03:57:25 PM »

Hi Otto,

First of all very NICE NICE NICE project.

I talked to Henrik yesterday, asking him about motorsport parts for a M42/M44/S42 engine. And he told me that if it wasent for you then there world be nothing for S42.

However i have the last time searched some information for the M42/M44/S42 engine. Im almost finished my M20B27 project. And its far from a normal 2.7 liter engine

( http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/alb_vis.asp?AlbumID=1730 )

But back to the case im speculate in building a S42 engine (sort of) in the future for a E36. But i need some more knowlegde of this kind of engine.
I would hear if you got some material catalogs from BMW Motorsport on this type of engine? i thinking of using the M44 engine block due to bigger standard bore and that it contains oil nossles under each piston over the M42 engine block.

I want to build the engine using a 85mm crankshaft (Motorsport, 4 counters) However the problem is that BMW motorsport informed me that the motorsport crankshaft only is 55mm at main bearings where the M42 is 60mm. Any solution to this?

BMW supplied me with some parts numbers however i dont know what this is can you tell? 1416576 disc for mean Bearing (axial clearance) 4x.
Does that have something to do with the smaller axial ?

I thinking of building the engine using some custom pistons from kempower, 86,5mm bore and 12:1 in compression with 145mm conrods?

The head i read some place that i can use S50 solid lifters in a M42 head and using shims under then, is that correct? Dbilas also supllies Mechanical bucket tappets is that a direct replacement for hydro tappets or does something need to be changed? I also looked at the Metrics Mechanic lifters but are they good enough for a 8500 engine using 292 degree camshaft?

The head will come from a M42 engine for use of the 6mm valves. however some bigger valves are properly going to be used. But for a start maybe. I think i will consentrate on the bottom end as the first.

Maybe you know some more about the S42 differenses from M42 engine that i need to take into account before starting this project. However the M20 engine needs to be finish at first

Best Regards
Thomas Nissen

Alpine003 · « **Reply #85 on:** May 22, 2007, 08:39:08 PM »

Quote from: cecotto;24373

I
I've got a guy who can tune it on a dyno, I dont think it's a good idea to tune a car like you suggest. But thanks.

Unless you have a Dynapack or Dynojet 246 w/optional inertial dampening, dyno's are only good for measuring and doing wot tuning sessions. Part throttle tuning is always better to do on the street in real world conditions. Good tuners will generally do both dyno and tweak on the streets afterwards.

Using wideband logs to generate a map can be useful, especially in the area "under the curve" and part throttle. Of course you will always want to fine tune it and tweak it afterwards.

cecotto · « **Reply #86 on:** May 23, 2007, 10:22:27 PM »

Hi Thomas.

I'll do this in english, for the benefit og the other users.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

First of all very NICE NICE NICE project.

Thanks a lot.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

I talked to Henrik yesterday, asking him about motorsport parts for a M42/M44/S42 engine. And he told me that if it wasent for you then there world be nothing for S42.

I think what Henrik ment was that if it wasent for me, he would not be aware of the existance of the S42. (Just to clear any misunderstandings)

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

However i have the last time searched some information for the M42/M44/S42 engine. Im almost finished my M20B27 project. And its far from a normal 2.7 liter engine ( http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/alb_vis.asp?AlbumID=1730 )

Nice M20 project you're doing there.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

But back to the case im speculate in building a S42 engine (sort of) in the future for a E36. But i need some more knowlegde of this kind of engine.
I would hear if you got some material catalogs from BMW Motorsport on this type of engine? i thinking of using the M44 engine block due to bigger standard bore and that it contains oil nossles under each piston over the M42 engine block.

I do have some motorsport catalogs, partnumbers, technical information etc. on the S42 (1995 version, as i remember). In fact this version features the same under piston oil squirters as the series M42 (present on all M42, not just the M44)

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

I want to build the engine using a 85mm crankshaft (Motorsport, 4 counters) However the problem is that BMW motorsport informed me that the motorsport crankshaft only is 55mm at main bearings where the M42 is 60mm. Any solution to this?

That crank will cost you around 3-4000 euroes!!

As im in Las Vegas until the 20-june, i cant look up the S42 crank diameters. But as i remember the mains are the same. But the rod bearings are of a larger diameter.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

BMW supplied me with some parts numbers however i dont know what this is can you tell? 1416576 disc for mean Bearing (axial clearance) 4x.
Does that have something to do with the smaller axial ?

I havent looked it up, but sounds like the part in question are the axial play bearings, which are seperate units from the radial bearings. On the M42 the axial bearing and radial bearing are a single unit.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

I thinking of building the engine using some custom pistons from kempower, 86,5mm bore and 12:1 in compression with 145mm conrods?

Kempower are known for doing good work. And the specs sounds good to me, well sounds like S42 specs. I cant argue with that. But it might be only 2 ring pistons. Not suitable for the street... But before ordering i would plan the build in more detail, sounds like it will be pretty expensive.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

The head i read some place that i can use S50 solid lifters in a M42 head and using shims under then, is that correct? Dbilas also supllies Mechanical bucket tappets is that a direct replacement for hydro tappets or does something need to be changed? I also looked at the Metrics Mechanic lifters but are they good enough for a 8500 engine using 292 degree camshaft?

I would go with the lifters the camgrinder supplies, this is what i did.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

The head will come from a M42 engine for use of the 6mm valves. however some bigger valves are properly going to be used. But for a start maybe. I think i will consentrate on the bottom end as the first.

I've got a 6mm head in a corner for future development, i need to finish the engine as planned with the 7mm or else this will keep dragging on and on.

Quote from: fiskerendk;26349

Maybe you know some more about the S42 differenses from M42 engine that i need to take into account before starting this project. However the M20 engine needs to be finish at first

I do have some pretty good information, some of which is shared in this thread.

But my best advice to you would not be to build a S42 (Too expensive)

But rather do something like i'm doing, not just copy my spec. But upgrade the the obvious performance parts to a spec thats suitable for where you're heading. Theres a large selection available. Catcams can grind you custom cams to your requirement. and rods are also available form a lot of sources. Pistons are also available from many sources. and can be made to fit a longer rod.

Best Regards
Thomas Nissen[/QUOTE]

cecotto · « **Reply #87 on:** May 23, 2007, 10:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Alpine003;26374

Unless you have a Dynapack or Dynojet 246 w/optional inertial dampening, dyno's are only good for measuring and doing wot tuning sessions. Part throttle tuning is always better to do on the street in real world conditions. Good tuners will generally do both dyno and tweak on the streets afterwards.

Using wideband logs to generate a map can be useful, especially in the area "under the curve" and part throttle. Of course you will always want to fine tune it and tweak it afterwards.

Hmm..

The tuning will be made on a inertial roller dyno with a brake attached. I think it will be okay for me. And of cource it will be using a exhaust gas monitoring system.

Last year i visited Alpina, where we were showed their engine dyno room. The engine they were working on were pretty wired up. And i'm sure they would find the DynoJet you mention useless for their purposes. It takes months for them to get it right.

I guess what i'm saying is that you have to decide whats good enough for you, and go with that.
* I would not rely entirely on a street tune, allthough i guess that could be done with good results.
*An engine dyno is not an option for my budget, and i wouldent know where to go.
* I know a guy who has tunes hundreds of cars on his inertial dyno with brake, successfully.

And theres always going to be a better option.

But thanks for your input, i value that.

Alpine003 · « **Reply #88 on:** May 24, 2007, 10:54:57 AM »

Quote from: cecotto;26467

Hmm..

The tuning will be made on a inertial roller dyno with a brake attached. I think it will be okay for me. And of cource it will be using a exhaust gas monitoring system.

This is basically a dynapack that i mentioned previously so we are saying the same thing.
As for Alpina, you can't compare engine dyno to regular dyno's. Not apples to apples comparison. I wouldn't say Dynojet's would be useless but they just have the resources to go a different route when it comes to tuning that lot of consumers don't have access to.

fiskerendk · « **Reply #89 on:** May 24, 2007, 01:29:19 PM »

However i properly want to spend about 100.000 DKK as i already did with my M20 engine. So thats almost the price tag. Im not going to take the cheapest way if another is better. However i thinked about the S42 crank becouse of the 85mm and not to worry about high rpms.
But again it should be posible to get a high rev 88mm stroke engine. And then just use 86mm pistons.

Then maybe just go for the:

Block:
M42/M44 Block
M47 Crank 88mm Stroke
Custom Con.Rods
Custom 12:1 Pistons
Main Bearings with 360 degree oiling grooves
Rod Bearings

Head:
Ported and Flowtested by Poul Heikendorf again

Custom 6mm valves +1mm oversize
Mechanical Lifters
Upgraded springs and retainers
292 degrees cams or simular

Does this sound like a good choises then?
Im only at the early stages and comparing some different posibilities.