Author Topic: WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff  (Read 6533 times)

1998ccc

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« on: December 07, 2010, 04:18:44 PM »
Open or LSD.

harvey2

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2010, 05:00:13 PM »
If you don't mind putting a medium case diff in instead of small case you can bolt in the differential from a Z3 2.5 Automatic which has the 4.27 ratio and is a Torsen type limited slip.  I've done this in my 318is and it works very well (torture tested in autocross competition).

The Z3 diff (non-M cars) is the same diff case as used in E30 325 cars but it has the Torsen style limited slip inside which is not well known.  As a result, you can buy these cheaper than the usual E30 LSD.

Here's a list of all of the Z3 6-cyl diffs according to realoem:

3.07: M54 3.0 manual
3.15: M52 2.8 manual, M52tu 2.5 manual, M52tu 2.8 manual, S54
3.23: S52
3.46: M54 2.5 manual, M54 3.0 auto
3.64: M54 2.5 auto
4.10: M52 2.8 auto, M52tu 2.8 auto
4.27: M52tu 2.5 auto

Torsen is a torque biasing LSD, a technology shared by Quaife and a few other makers.  It never wears out unlike clutch diffs and is smoother.
\'91 318is

1998ccc

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 09:58:09 PM »
Good info, thanks.  Any idea how common LSD's are in Z3's?

Were all the iC 4.27's open?

harvey2

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 11:58:18 AM »
Quote from: 1998ccc;99510
Good info, thanks.  Any idea how common LSD's are in Z3's?

Were all the iC 4.27's open?

Well, to be sure, I'm no expert.  However, I believe that all Z3's of the vintages in that list above have LSDs.  

I don't know about the iC diffs.

It may be worth mentioning that the standard LSD test of putting the car in the air and turning one wheel and watching which way the other wheel turns doesn't work on a torsen diff.  In this test a torsen behaves like an open diff.  When I had mine installed by a very experienced BMW mechanic, he told me right after he put it in that it "wasn't an LSD so hope you didn't pay too much".  So, even he was fooled.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 12:04:28 PM by harvey2 »
\'91 318is

1998ccc

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 12:43:04 AM »
Does the Z3 have a "S" on the tag to denote a LSD like the clutch pack 25% e30 diffs?  Only a couple well supported Z3 forums I've found with out much information.

Had a hit on another board for an open 4.27 for $225 so I may go that route unless something cheaper shows.  Not really sure what market value is for a small case 4.27.  Any ideas?

harvey2

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 02:05:27 PM »
Quote from: 1998ccc;99540
Does the Z3 have a "S" on the tag to denote a LSD like the clutch pack 25% e30 diffs?  Only a couple well supported Z3 forums I've found with out much information.

Had a hit on another board for an open 4.27 for $225 so I may go that route unless something cheaper shows.  Not really sure what market value is for a small case 4.27.  Any ideas?

I have purchased two Z3 4.27 Torsen diffs just last year.  One is in the car and one is on the garage floor.  Neither has the S on it.  In fact, neither had the traditional metal tag that the E30 diffs do, just a paper label on the top showing part number and bar code.

In my opinion an open 4.27 does not make a lot of sense.  To me, a 4.27 in a manual 318i is for tweaking acceleration at lower speeds which is mainly useful in some motorsport like autocross or track work and in those cases you must have some sort of limited slip.  For street use, the 4.10 ratio is fine and there are lots of open 4.10s around almost for free.  The clutch type 4.27 LSD unit is fairly rare and so can be $400 and more, but used ones between friends go for around $275 or so.  

The last time I looked around for Z3 4.27 diffs I found a few hits at wrecking yards across the country at around $250.  The two that I bought cost me $375 and $110, shipping not included.

I wanted to add that there is some controversy about the advantages of Torsen/Quaife type diffs (generically called gear-type Automatic Torque Biasing differential) vs clutch type diffs amongst serious racers.  The issue is that a basic Torsen stops transferring torque to the wheel  with more traction when the other wheel has absolutely zero traction, such as when it is up in the air.  It basically reverts to behaving like an open diff in this situation.  (There are exceptions to this in some versions, where some drag is designed into the diff to avoid this)  Serious racers feel that this gets in their way when they are flying their car over track curbing or other irregularities, so they seem to prefer clutch types which continue to transfer some torque to the wheel still on the ground.  I've heard that some 4wheelers use the handbrake to force some torque transfer to occur when wheels are up in the air.  I can't imagine having the time to do this sort of thing on the racetrack though.

I can say that in my autocross experience, which is not extensive, the Torsen works very well.  Car setup and control needs to put some attention to keeping both rears on the ground, for example by using a very stiff front anti-roll bar and tolerating a slight lift to one front wheel instead.  It is not easy for an E30 to keep all four on the ground, so I am told.  The advantages of the Torsen are mainly that it is seamlessly progressive, or in other words, very very smooth.  There are no sudden changes when shifting the torque transfer, when getting on or off throttle, in any situation because there is no clutch engagement/disengagement.  So, when decelerating into a corner, there is no push due to disengagement delays or transients, for example.  The other advantage is perhaps less exciting in that the Torsen has no clutches to wear out and it does not generate as much heat as the clutch type in extreme driving, so fins aren't that critical on the diff.  So the Torsen will not wear out any sooner than an open diff, and in fact does not really need the friction modifiers in the diff lubricant either.

Some well known vehicles come with Torsen diffs and its close relative the Quaife diff is very popular amongst performance car enthusiasts.  Miatas ('94-05) come with Torsens, as do some S2000 versions, Audi R8, Mazda RX8, Subaru Impreza WRX Sti and many more.  Hyundai uses it in the Genesis coupe, and Torsens are popular in four wheel drive vehicles because they play nice with the torque transfer mechanism between axles.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 02:53:51 PM by harvey2 »
\'91 318is

1998ccc

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WTB: 4.27:1 Small Case Diff
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 12:26:01 AM »
A little info I dug up that the weight freaks may be interested in.

Stock e30 small case 25% limited slip

RMFD FINAL DRIVE, DIFFERENTIAL 25% - I=41:10=4,10  66.14 lbs

 RMFD FINAL DRIVE, DIFFERENTIAL 25% - I=47:11=4,27 66.36 lbs


e30 med case

RMFD FINAL DRIVE, DIFFERENTIAL 25% - I=41:10=4,10 (to 09/88)  84.22 lbs


Z3 med case...says nothing about LSD or not.  only thing listed.  Are all Z3's torsen?  It is ~3 lbs lighter than the e30 clutch pack lsd.

33101428445 RMFD FINAL DRIVE WITH DIFFERENTIAL - I=4,10 (to 09/97)  81.66 lbs