Author Topic: Power Steering removal and cold air questions, experience and opinions wanted!  (Read 5440 times)

n.wesl

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Hey guys, I hope this is in the right section. This is my first time posting a question like this here so bear with me haha. I'm on a tight budget and there are a few cheap power options I've been searching the forum history about. I've gathered a lot of information but there's still a few questions I have.
1. I've looked into removing the power steering. Can anyone that has  experience with this mod tell me how much power or increase in gas mileage, etc... you actually get by removing the ps? Are the gains enough to warrant me going ahead with this mod?
2. I've researched cold air intake and "fogging" my airbox by removing the highbeam. I think I've decided against the fogging route as I was told this forced air would cut into my gas mileage a good bit. Can anyone with the fogged airbox attest to how much it actually affected your gas mileage? Also, I've looked into a lot of cold air options. Seeing as how I'm on a tight budget I like this idea: http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10181 It seems cheap and logical if I do that, throw in a new paper filter and call it a day. There was never any real follow up it seems like. Does anyone have experience with this?
3. One more thing I've come across is the mustang injector mod. How much power does switching out these injectors actually add? Once again, how much of a hit did your gas mileage take? If it's worth it I'm sure I can find some of these injectors at my local pull- a- part.
Thanks for reading this long post and I'm anxious to hear what you all have to say.

deekay

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Power Steering removal and cold air questions, experience and opinions wanted!
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 09:17:20 PM »
i got rid of my power steering and don't miss it in the slightest- not so much for the power/mileage increase, but i feel i get much more feedback from the car when i'm flogging it now. you can get power steering delete plates on e30tech from one of the members for something like $30 i think, and i recommend it. you will have to use a bit more effort at very low speeds, especially if you're running a smaller steering wheel and 225-series tires like i am, but i wouldn't go back to PS if you paid me.

my airbox is missing the snorkel, so i'm planning on running a headlight delete and some pipe into the stock airbox inlet. i don't really see it affecting gas mileage all that much... gonna make far less difference than what your driving style is like. the link you provided is certainly an interesting approach, but given that plastic is not all that heat-conductive i don't know if it's worth the bother... if you still have the snorkel and don't want to do the headlight delete, then just keep up with the paper filter replacement; anything past that is gonna be subject to the law of diminishing returns pretty quickly.

i had to go to 24lb/hr injectors to get my fuel tune right with my ITBs, so i can't comment on the mustang units.
5-lug'd big-braked torsen'd hardtop'd ITB'd m42 vert
"the e30 colin chapman would have built" ;)

DesktopDave

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Power Steering removal and cold air questions, experience and opinions wanted!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 09:34:03 PM »
Post away!  Don't worry about being in the wrong place...

I've gotten my best mileage with these 'mods', best to worst:
1. Driving like a grandmother got me about 20%.
2. Avoiding high-alcohol and cold-weather gasoline got me a solid 5%.
3. Switching to a lower-ratio diff (3.73) and high-grade full synthetics helped a bit.  I did that all at the same time so it's impossible to say how much each one helped.  I wanted it to help more, but what can you do?  Again, <5%
4. Cruise control made a bit of a difference too, as well as really hard 185 R14 all-season tires helped as well.  Combined...maybe a point or two.

Those numbers are really hard to quantify, there is a wide variety of other factors that come into play.  The best mileage I ever got was almost 44mpg.  All highway driving, moderate altitude (500-3000 ft above sea level) & temperature (low 60's).  I drafted a lot of trucks at 100 feet back or so with a lot of cruise control.  My average according to GPS was only 61mph overall IIRC.  If it had been a less hilly route I might have done even better.

I'll be trying some aero mods, like a rubber air dam and blocking part of the radiator opening next.  I'm also considering a wideband o2 sensor, to really see what's going on.  Finally, I've mixed a special low-viscosity coolant mix (66% water /33% coolant/water wetter) and I'll be putting in a high-temp thermostat with a matching rad switch and a fan delete.  I'm also tempted to control the alternator off the brake circuit...prevent charging all the time, pulse it only when necessary.

FYI, every cold-air mod you do will decrease your fuel mileage.  More air = more fuel burned = more power.  For high efficiency, use warm air.  It'll make the engine more efficient, but you'll lose a few HP along the way.  I suspect fogging the airbox will make a lot of noise but very little else unless you have some head work, larger cams, bigger crank, etc.  The stock filter box works very well IMHO, as long as it's clean.  Same goes for the fuel & oil filters.

I pulled my P/S belt because the rack was leaking.  It didn't make a noticeable difference in mileage, but it did help with the oil spots under the car.  It makes the steering feel much better though - less numb on center, very direct.  Feels "right," except at a standstill.  Then it's a bit of a PITA, but not unacceptable.  Bit of weight savings too.
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

YetiX

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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 09:39:42 AM »
I can only comment on the power steering delete since I had to unwillingly delete mine for a day when a hose blew.

To my highly calibrated butt-dyno, it made zero difference in power.  I could not feel any increased acceleration nor did it feel like the engine was spinning up faster.  The engine felt exactly the same.  I didn't have it disabled long enough to make any fuel efficiency observations.

The only difference I noted was, as others have said, a more direct steering feel.  Unlike Dave and deekay, I like the feel of the steering with the power steering and hooked it back up once I replaced the blown hose.
-Scott-
\'91 318i 5spd

deekay

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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 11:23:52 AM »
Quote from: YetiX;98230
To my highly calibrated butt-dyno, it made zero difference in power.


i'm not really surprised to hear this. get rid of PS (as in remove the hardware, not just the belt), plus AC, and ditch the clutch fan for an electric... then you might notice a difference.
5-lug'd big-braked torsen'd hardtop'd ITB'd m42 vert
"the e30 colin chapman would have built" ;)

YetiX

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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 12:05:27 PM »
Quote from: deekay;98235
i'm not really surprised to hear this. get rid of PS (as in remove the hardware, not just the belt), plus AC, and ditch the clutch fan for an electric... then you might notice a difference.


Yeah, around here you'd notice you get really hot! Especially in parking lots. :D :D
-Scott-
\'91 318i 5spd

n.wesl

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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 05:00:17 PM »
Thanks for all the responses guys. So basically what I'm seeing is that the ps delete is more in the ways of how it feels v.s. power. Can anyone elaborate more on the mustang injectors? And would that low cost wrap of heat shield be worth trying?

DesktopDave

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Power Steering removal and cold air questions, experience and opinions wanted!
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 11:48:58 AM »
Yep, P/S is more a personal preference thing.

Not sure how much you know about fuel injectors, so I'll start simple.  One of the many funny things about Bosch DME/ECU's is that they're tuned for an exact size of injector.  That makes a big difference in what's called "closed loop" running.  Closed-loop is when the computer monitors the O2 sensor to tweak the fuel-air mixture.  The ECU will only run closed loop after the engine is warmed up, and if it's not running at wide open throttle (WOT).  So if it's warming up, or at WOT, the ECU switches to open-loop and ignores the O2 sensor.  You can imagine the troubles you'll have if the coolant temp sensor is off and the DME never goes into closed-loop.

So if you change the size of the injectors, the DME really has no idea how much fuel is going into the motor in open loop like wide-open throttle.  This is intentional, so the DME can be easily spec'ed for a larger number of cars.  The computer only knows that it's sending a signal to open injectors for a certain amount of time.  That's called the injector pulsewidth.  Since the computer is keeping the injectors open, you can slot in a bigger injector to add more fuel.  Same pulse width, more flow.  BMW's tune is tweaked for economy, adding a slightly bigger injector will make it run richer and better.  Admittedly, you're going to get a bit less mileage.

Injectors are rated by the amount of fuel they can flow per minute.  Each one is just a little chamber of fuel, right?  Like a hypo syringe.  The Mustang Bosch injectors max out at 19 pounds of fuel/minute.  I think the stock injectors are 17 pounds or so.

You'd figure they'd just put a big injector on the car and call it a day, but it's not that simple.  The really big injectors cannot offer very small amounts of fuel.  So BMW chose a small injector to help with off-idle acceleration, idle quality, times that the motor needs a very small amount of fuel to be smooth.

Sorry for the master's thesis here, but I'm hoping it'll help a bit.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 11:56:17 AM by DesktopDave »
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

n.wesl

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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 01:32:05 PM »
No! I appreciate it. That helped a lot! So on my daily driver just changing out the injectors to mustangs might not be the best route. I guess all I'm left with from my original post to try is that air box wrap haha.

DesktopDave

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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 02:21:06 PM »
The nicest thing about the newer "disk" style injectors is that they have four smaller holes.  The original injectors only have one.  So it mists the fuel better.  I haven't seen a lot of solid comparisons...I'd suspect mileage would not get significantly worse.  If you find other problems it might actually improve...idle should be smoother as well, but  you'll need some new o-rings, gaskets & vac lines, etc.  It's a bit  of a job to get that all apart & back together the right way.  Might as well clean it all up too.  You can bet it's been that way since Bavaria circa 1990.

If you're going to do this right, definitely read the Mustang injector thread carefully.  The injectors come in two lengths and many many sizes...we need the long "150" high-impedance ones IIRC.  I think pretty much every injected Ford (even the antique TBI T-birds & pickups) used similar injectors.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 08:22:44 AM by DesktopDave »
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

n.wesl

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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 08:31:06 PM »
Thank you. You guys have been so much help. There are many threads I've seen that address the mustang injectors. Would you mind posting a link to the thread you're talking about? I just want to make sure I refer to the same one you're talking about.

DesktopDave

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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 08:22:33 AM »
Sorry, my bad:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233

Lots of reading there, and more than a bit of outstanding info.  Be sure your injectors are the long "150" type (the 155 injectors are shorter) and are high impedance.  The low impedance injectors will overheat & kill our injector driver in the DME.  I corrected the info up above.  You could likely use many SAAB and Volvo injectors too, especially the OEM turbo applications.  They typically run 23# and up.  I wouldn't go crazy with Subie 32# injectors or anything like that.

Forgot a detail up above...injectors are rated pounds of fuel/minute at 3 bar (43psi).  If you change the fuel pressure, you're changing the flow.  Yet another way to 'tune' the car.  Rising-rate fuel pressure regulators (RRFPR) are a cheap way to get more fuel to tune for a turbo or something like that.
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

n.wesl

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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 03:42:11 PM »
Thanks! Looks like I have some reading to do haha

mr.vang

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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 12:05:02 AM »
m42 is not going to make any big gain with bolt unless its boost or SC or fully built so why bother. the most i'll do for a stock m42 is KN drop in, exhaust, chip and lsd. i just removed all my PS crap and lube my m3 steering rack. it feel better then when it wasn't lube. if your planning to keep your de-power steering rack you should look into lubing the inside.

here is my DIY lube
http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12441
fs: air bag model knee panel, bmw tools, ects

n.wesl

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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 02:38:00 PM »
I'm not looking for any big gains. I'm just looking for a little pep with cheap mods. I have fun working on cars and tinkering around with this little stuff is good because at the end of the day the car is my daily driver and I don't want to sacrifice too much comfort or mpg.