Stock Header Turbo Build

[Bl0mgren]

another build..

http://www.ladda-upp.com/bilder-a/318is_turbo-852.jpg

[golde30]

what kinda turbo you running? im liking this setup, super simple.

[ose30]

Would run even better, if you loacte afm to non-prssurised side of your setup, like all turbo charged Motronic/AFM factory installations had back then.

[jscribble]

Really cool, and inspiring! Thanks! Guesses as to how much more power? Also, where is power band coming on?

[Esprit Aviation]

Been away for a while:

Golde30: It is a TE05-12b from a 92 Saab Turbo, we also use the injectors from the same car to eliminate the need for an rrfpr. We can run 8psiw/ no problems, however we limit it to 6-7psi to be on the safe side. There appears to be no reason to spend the cash for either a rrfprr or an intercooler up to 8psi with our set-up.

ose30: Thank you for the suggestion. I seem to recall that we did it after the turbo because of the use and placement of the BOV. If the AFM is before, and the BOV opens, the AFM flap will be open (possibly wide open) thus extremely enriching the mixture on the over-run. Our placement ensures that when the throttle plate closes and the BOV opens that the AFM flap is completely shut. Let me know if I am incorrect in this thought process.

jscribble: Thank you for the kind words. Conservatively, i would guess approx 165-170 absolutely reliable HP. The boost is very quick to rise, but I would have to drive and take more notes. To be sure, it pulls really hard @ approx 4000RPM. Make no mistake though, there is rather sufficient power/boost well below that. I wish I could get my hands on the car long enough to be more specific, but it is difficult to get it away from my son; it is his car. I'll just have to build another for myself!

Thanks to all for feedback.

Cheers! Lee

[bmwconnect]

Been away for a while:

Golde30: It is a TE05-12b from a 92 Saab Turbo, we also use the injectors from the same car to eliminate the need for an rrfpr. We can run 8psiw/ no problems, however we limit it to 6-7psi to be on the safe side. There appears to be no reason to spend the cash for either a rrfprr or an intercooler up to 8psi with our set-up.

ose30: Thank you for the suggestion. I seem to recall that we did it after the turbo because of the use and placement of the BOV. If the AFM is before, and the BOV opens, the AFM flap will be open (possibly wide open) thus extremely enriching the mixture on the over-run. Our placement ensures that when the throttle plate closes and the BOV opens that the AFM flap is completely shut. Let me know if I am incorrect in this thought process.

jscribble: Thank you for the kind words. Conservatively, i would guess approx 165-170 absolutely reliable HP. The boost is very quick to rise, but I would have to drive and take more notes. To be sure, it pulls really hard @ approx 4000RPM. Make no mistake though, there is rather sufficient power/boost well below that. I wish I could get my hands on the car long enough to be more specific, but it is difficult to get it away from my son; it is his car. I'll just have to build another for myself!

Thanks to all for feedback.

Cheers! Lee

So to understand you correctly you have swapped the ori injectors for bigger Saab turbo injectors without a tune and your running the stock Motronic?

[jscribble]

That's a pretty solid improvement for the money. Nice work.

If you get a chance, could you snap some pics of the intake setup, or some pics from below? Just curious as to the routing on the under side of that support.

Header wrap would probably help a lot here, since more of the exhaust temps stay in the engine bay.

[Esprit Aviation]

bmwconnect: Yes, the Saab Turbo injectors seem to be perfectly sized and they are electrically identical. The only difference is the flow rate. I believe it is 22.4 lbs/hr. We will be using the NGK AFR meter when we get time to weld in a bung to verify and report our mixture readings here. One other thing I forgot to mention is that we are running what I think is the Euro spec, no 02 sensor and with the wire on top of the engine bay harness connected (to allow at least the idle mixture to be influenced more by the AFM). Once again, some of this info I need to confirm, and some has been guesswork to keep cost down and still have a tractable set-up. Consider there is no expensive 02 sensor to partially block the exhaust stream, or work involved in splicng an aftermarket one in! Besides the car runs so well in our estimation that doing anything further is a waste of time other than to satisfy our curiosity.

jscribble: Thanks, we are VERY pleased w/the results. I will get some pics ASAP. To describe it: The air intake is taken directly from the left brake duct (We will add additional brake ducts if we decide to track the car in the future.) it then goes through a K&N Apollo filter and directly into the turbo. That is about it for the intake side. Underneath on the exhaust side we come off the turbo with 2.5 in SS pipe with a 90 degree bend turned slightly when welded to make it about 100 degrees, then as straight back as possible. We have considered header wrap which should retain more heat for turbo efficiency and keep underhood temps down, but, decided to try the worst-case scenario first.
We figured the paint would suffer on the hood and this was not the case. We don't detect any problems due to underhood heat yet. Another great benefit of using the stock header is that it cools very fast compared to a cast iron manifold and this helps to eliminate the need for header wrap.

Lee

[bmwconnect]

bmwconnect: Yes, the Saab Turbo injectors seem to be perfectly sized and they are electrically identical. The only difference is the flow rate. I believe it is 22.4 lbs/hr. We will be using the NGK AFR meter when we get time to weld in a bung to verify and report our mixture readings here. One other thing I forgot to mention is that we are running what I think is the Euro spec, no 02 sensor and with the wire on top of the engine bay harness connected (to allow at least the idle mixture to be influenced more by the AFM). Once again, some of this info I need to confirm, and some has been guesswork to keep cost down and still have a tractable set-up. Consider there is no expensive 02 sensor to partially block the exhaust stream, or work involved in splicng an aftermarket one in! Besides the car runs so well in our estimation that doing anything further is a waste of time other than to satisfy our curiosity.

jscribble: Thanks, we are VERY pleased w/the results. I will get some pics ASAP. To describe it: The air intake is taken directly from the left brake duct (We will add additional brake ducts if we decide to track the car in the future.) it then goes through a K&N Apollo filter and directly into the turbo. That is about it for the intake side. Underneath on the exhaust side we come off the turbo with 2.5 in SS pipe with a 90 degree bend turned slightly when welded to make it about 100 degrees, then as straight back as possible. We have considered header wrap which should retain more heat for turbo efficiency and keep underhood temps down, but, decided to try the worst-case scenario first.
We figured the paint would suffer on the hood and this was not the case. We don't detect any problems due to underhood heat yet. Another great benefit of using the stock header is that it cools very fast compared to a cast iron manifold and this helps to eliminate the need for header wrap.

Lee

unless your running a rrfpr to 100psi fuel rail those injectors will not support 7psi of boost...at 50psi of fuel pressure and 100% duty cycle they wont even support 5 psi. good luck!

[jscribble]

I wondered if anyone had used the brake duct as an air intake. I noticed most people don't have that duct in place anyway. Sounds like a nice setup. Points for doing it differently!

[Esprit Aviation]

unless your running a rrfpr to 100psi fuel rail those injectors will not support 7psi of boost...at 50psi of fuel pressure and 100% duty cycle they wont even support 5 psi. good luck!

If that were the case, then please explain how the stock 92 Saab Turbo produces 8-12 psi of useable boost with the same turbo and it's a 2.0 litre?

What type of set-up, turbo and size injectors are you running?

[jscribble]

touche.

[bmwconnect]

If that were the case, then please explain how the stock 92 Saab Turbo produces 8-12 psi of useable boost with the same turbo and it's a 2.0 litre?

What type of set-up, turbo and size injectors are you running?

1.There is no such thing as 8psi and 22LB injectors unless you increase fuel pressure with a RRFPR. 2.There is also no turbo Saab running rated 22LB@43.5psi injectors from factory. 3.The m42 motronic 1.7 factory ecu only runs the injectors at around 60% duty cycle at WOT  

The m42 need's the fallowing min injector flow rate for 80-90% duty cycle and a rail pressure of 43.5psi

10psi  = 30lb
15psi   = 44lb
20psi    = 60lb

I run a t3/t4 hybrid 60trim/intercooled/13psi/10:1 compression/2.5 exhaust with 37LB injectors at 95% duty cycle

[jscribble]

Conventional wisdom here concurs with bmwconnect. Most builds mention the need for ~30 lb injectors for 10 psi.

I'm surprised you have 37lbs running that high of a duty cycle. The need for fuel grows very quickly with added boost?

[bmwconnect]

Conventional wisdom here concurs with bmwconnect. Most builds mention the need for ~30 lb injectors for 10 psi.

I'm surprised you have 37lbs running that high of a duty cycle. The need for fuel grows very quickly with added boost?

I sold my 44LB set to a client that needed them asap...Running a high duty cycle is not that big of a deal as long as your not running on a track and putting the pedal to floor every few seconds because thats when they begin to heat up and fail.

 The need for fuel yes but depending on the turbo size, intercooler size, air temp but the above is a good guide line but useless without a tune