Author Topic: Clutch Loose/Mystery Bolt (Read 4507 times)

ecalder · « **on:** March 01, 2010, 07:25:39 PM »

Hey everyone!

I ran across a little problem and I want to see if anyone can help...

I was coming out of one of my last runs at an autocross yesterday, redlining in second thinking I'd try shifting into third to see if it helped my time. Well I might have been revving to hard or something but it wouldn't shift. I came across the lights and went to push in the clutch and it felt funny. It didn't fall to the floor like when the slave cylinder goes out, it was just kind of jelly like. I stopped the car and when I went to shift back into first I stalled it. When I started it back up, the clutch went back to feeling normal, but shifting hasn't felt the same since. It is harder to put into second coming out of first (it won't shift out of first at anything over 1,500k). Coincidentally, right after this happened I found this bolt/pin next to the pedals. It wasn't there before because I had just vacuumed the whole car and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it, plus I noticed it immediately after my run.

I tore apart the panels under the steering column and looked for where the bolt/pin could go with no luck. It looks like the end was broken off, but I couldn't find anything that matched the other side... any ideas?

1991 E30 M42 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:17:31 PM »

that is a torque to yield fastener, not a broken bolt if that helps

ecalder · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:29:11 PM »

Torque to yield fastener? Never heard of that, what is it for? I assumed it was broken because the tip is silver not black like the rest of the bolt and it is not smooth, looks like something broke off of that side. Any idea where it came from? Thanks...

DesktopDave · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:00:22 PM »

Like the ones that hold on the steering column? There are two bolts like that holding it up. The head cracks off when they're tightened to keep someone from stealing it or something.

Did you check the clutch pedal return spring?

ecalder · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:35:58 PM »

I'll check the spring, maybe it was temporarily knocked loose during autox? Have you ever had that happen to where it snaps back into place?

The steering column would make sense actually because of the added pressure from my ps delete... I'll check that out too!

ecalder · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2010, 06:37:52 PM »

Damn... No luck on the steering column, spent an hour looking for a lonely hole looking for it's bolt-friend...

Spring action is fine too. That's two mysteries now. Where did this bolt come from and why did my clutch get gooey and then go back to normal after I stalled and restarted! Oh well, anybody with similar experiences?

DesktopDave · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2010, 07:12:06 PM »

Maybe someone threw it in the car after your run? I have no idea what that might be from, never seen one. I'd check the tranny mounts and shifter linkage. As for the clutch, maybe a bubble? Can overheated fluid get into it and make for the jelly shift?

ecalder · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2010, 07:48:58 PM »

Just took it for a spin... At this point I'm not worried so much about the bolt i guess. My transmission is a pos anyways so it's hard to gauge. Hear me out on this.

When I bought the car, po told me transmission had a synchro problem. This was his explanation for the fact that it wouldn't shift out of first at high rpm and didn't like to shift back into second from third at anything over 35mph. I've lived with this since. It sucks at autocross and spirited driving but otherwise it's ok. I plan on changing the transmission anyways eventually. Fast forward to Sunday... Ever sincethe squishy clutch and mystery bolt the problem has gotten way worse. Now I can't shift into second from first at over 2k rpm and the shift knob jiggles going into 3rd and fourth which was previously not an issue.

Now Dave you mentioned transmission mount and also shifter linkage. I figure one of two things.

#1- I screwed up my synchro problem even more through agressive driving

Or

#2- maybe I don't have a synchro problem but a transmission mount or shifter linkage problem that is causing the symptoms.

How can i tell if my transmission mounts are bad or my shifter linkage has a problem? Am I following sound logic or just wishful thinking that maybe I won't have to swap out my tranny!

DesktopDave · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:16:15 PM »

The transmission mounts will look the same if they're good. It's pretty easy to tell if they're shot, they'll be twisted, offset or might even be broken.

I've heard that the 2nd synchro is a problem in the Getrag 240, so the PO was likely right. Broken mounts or a worn shifter can't help though...getting the most out of the tranny would be high on my priorities too.

I'm planning on doing all that stuff at once in the near future. I need a new guibo anyway...I'll be putting in new rear tranny seals, new mounts, shifter cup and likely a short shifter too. Might as well do the whole thing at once while the exhaust & heat shields are off the car.

ecalder · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2010, 06:14:58 PM »

OK! I'll take a look under the car tonight to see what's going on around the transmission. In your opinion, how hard is it to replace a transmission? I'm learning fast here, having never changed my oil I've now replaced all coolant hoses, oil pan gaskets, steering rack, other gaskets, and even the clutch slave cylinder. I'd like to replace the tranny myself but don't want to screw things up more than they already are! I understand I need a buddy to help but let's say on a scale from one to ten how hard do you think it is to replace the tranny, and where would you put the rack swap in there as a reference?

If I did replace it, I guess I should go ahead and do the things on your list too huh? New guibo (still not sure what this is), transmission mounts, rear seals, shifter cup, and of course the short shifter. I'm also interested in the m20 flywheel conversion, I guess this would be as good a time as ever.

Can I do all of this with standard jackstands or do I need a lift to get the job done? Any special tools?

I've run across a few transmissions for sale I'm thinking I should just pull the trigger and go for it! Hopefully the transmission I buy doesn't have the same problem my current one has and as far as I've heard there's no way to test it until it is in the car...

DesktopDave · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2010, 08:43:32 PM »

IDK about the transmission, never had to replace one. I'll let you know when I do it in my 325i project.

The guibo is a rubber disk that couples the transmission and drive shaft. It's secured by six bolts; three on the transmission output shaft, three on the drive shaft. It acts like a bushing, reducing diff noise and minimizing balance or deflection problems with the drive shaft.

I'd say you can do it all with jack stands. I'm figuring four truck-style stands would be best. I'd also try to beg or borrow (not steal) a transmission jack...they're designed to retain & lower the transmission safely, specifically for a job like this. You're right about the clutch conversion too, perfect time to replace all the parts that wear out while it's all easy to get at. If you don't know how old the slave cylinder & line are...I'd think it's the best time to do them too.

Having said all that, this is why it takes me so long to get to things...I tend to scale the job too far up & then put it off for complexity or expense. I'm still learning myself; but I find these cars so rewarding that way...simple enough to understand, small enough to still be fun, overbuilt enough to be reliable.

ecalder · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2010, 08:44:11 PM »

Well here are my mounts... They look ok, I guess. The rubber is a bit cracked but they don't look twisted or broken. The do feel a little gooey, and I can leave a mark with my fingernail. The tranny is covered in oil too, but I checked the level and it seems to be fine. I guess I might have just worsened the situation with my attempt to shift into 3rd at 6k rpm. Damn I think I'm really left with no option but to change out my transmission. Hopefully this weekend's autox doesn't leave me stranded...

What do y'all think about upgraded mounts. I've read there are some vorshlag mounts that are super stiff and help with performance driving. They're pricey, about double the price of stock mounts. Is it worth it?

4banger · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2010, 09:07:31 PM »

im getting ready to do the same job. i ordered all my motor trans and diff mounts/bushings from ireland engineering. my m20 flywheel is waiting in line to get milled when i get back from georgia this week and my clutch kit should be waiting when i get back.i still need to swap the starter pinion. i have a lift at my shop but this car is sitting in my inlaws drive way with the intake tore apart. so it will be done with jackstands and a tranny jack.

Choking Hazard · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2010, 09:08:04 PM »

When mine were bad, I put a jack under the trans case and lifted a little and it became apparent the the mounts were blown- explaining the "wham! wham! wham!" driveshaft hitting the tunnel sorta thing I was experiencing when the, uh, driveshaft hit the tunnel off throttle.

ecalder · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:29:54 AM »

I'll try lifting the transmission a bit and see what it does.

For the mounts, IE mounts Urethane $49.00ea vs Vorshlag 70A for $250/pair. Worth the difference? How about IE Tranny Mounts for $70 vs Vorshlag for $89? Are tehy basically the same thing?

My jack stand says only use it for supporting one end of the vehicle, but I assume to remove the tranny I'd have to lift all four sides?