Author Topic: Control arm R&R questions (Read 6393 times)

Ramblin MAn · « **on:** November 09, 2009, 01:04:52 AM »

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum, but everything i read seems a little old, So I figured I'd ask again. Sorry for the length.

My front end is sloppy. I'd like firm but supple, like young breasts. I'm happy with the ride height and spring rates, but the ball joints are shot and it just seems like it will be easier to replace the control arms and bushings all at once.

So, everyone says m3 offset bushings. How firm are they. This is going to be someones DD so I don't want harsh. Every time I hit a harsh bump I can feel the wheels waggling, so I want to get rid of that, but I also don't want the bushing ends to have the opportunity to move around like the stock ones will.

However, I don't want high durometer urethane that may as well be solid aluminum either. Like I said, firm but supple, so the shocks do the work they were designed to do.

Recommendations please.

Also, I have the basic proceedure down, but I am interested in the order of operations to do the job the quickest and most efficiently. I can use my buddies shop and lift and tools.

This is what I have planned. Please critique.
Set lift, leave car on ground. Using impact driver and long extension spin off center ball joint nuts. leave nuts on a few threads for safety.

Raise car. Unbolt sway bar end links from control arm.

Unbolt outer ball joints, seperate. (he has a ball joint fork for an air hammer that works like a hot knife through soft butter. It's hard on boots though but in this case I don't care.)

Unbolt lolipops and remove control arms. Toss in scrap bin.

Replacement is where I have more questions. I read in the manual that the lube you use when pressing bushings on the control arms evaporates over a period of 30 minutes and you are supposed to get weight on the tires asap and let it sit for 30 minutes. Is this a necessary step? and what lube do you guys use? my first thought is to use dish soap.

This part worries me because it means I can't assemble the lolipops and control arms ahead of time, and I would like to be able to do that.

Do M3 offset bushings come pressed in the lolipops or do they only come as a press in bushing. The shop has a press, but it's not in an area that's lit and I will certainly be doing this after hours. It would be nice to just get them already pressed in new lilipops.

Again, sorry for the long post. This is one of those time and money budget kind of things. I'd like to have this done inside 4 hours from start to finish. I'm not keeping this car and every minute I spend on it makes it harder to part with. I'm going to ask a lot for it when the for sale sign goes on and right now I can't justify the price I want because of the ball joints. I have 5 other projects, a house to sell and a divorce to deal with so everything is at a premium.

Any help you guys can give me is appreciated.

Jorgeconrico · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2009, 08:19:56 AM »

I just installed m3 offsets with new control arms and I love them. I used oem m3 offset CAB from Pelican and they are not harsh at all. I used the old lolipops and started pressing them with a big vice and fininshed them off with a big fcuking hammer. As far as the lub I used washing detergent. I did one side at a time and then let it settle, and then moved to the next side. Hope this helps.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:06:39 AM »

How much time did it take? Where did you get your parts?

Jorgeconrico · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:19:59 AM »

It took me about 5-6 hours, but I tried to take my time and do it as best I could. I got my CABs from pelican parts and my control arms and sway bar links from bav auto. The control arms I recieved were Meyle and haven't given me any problems, but next time I would go with Lemfoerder.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2009, 12:42:53 PM »

So what about the stock spring height with the M3 bushings. Any issues there other that I have to get it re-alligned? (I just had my allignment done two weeks ago)

And here is a stupid question. has anyone ever tried drilling the bottom of the ball joints, installing grease zirks and pumping them full of grease? Just wonder if that would help at all.

Jorgeconrico · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2009, 12:48:00 PM »

I have stock springs and all is well.

I have no idea about your second question.

monty23psk · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2009, 02:46:40 PM »

Here is from my experience:

Everyting on you procedure for removal seems fine but when removing outer and this believes works with inners, is leave the nut to be flush with top of ball joint and whack it with hammer. This acutally protects the boot.

Regarding the offset bushings, if you go with OEM, which is rubber, the front should be tighter than stock but at the same time not by much. The stock are rubber but have air pockets vs solid m3 ones. The real differense is what it does for the geometry to make the car more stable at higher speeds. If the car is not lowered you might get a little rubbing when wheel is turned at lock position.

Regarding installation. You will need to press the bushings into the lollipops. What I did, was buy a used set so I could do it before hand. You can use warm water and soap as your lubricant to install bushing(in lollipop already) onto the arm. From my experience, you might be able to do it with pure strenght and you can even sping it around, even though it will be tough. With this in mind, you can orient the arm and bushing as close to what you need and mount it outside the car.

Then installation is a breeze. Of course they sell removal tools to get the bushing on and off the arm. I have a set and it was 1, 2, 3 for remvoval. Installation was a breeze since I upgraded to AKG offset ones.

Hope this helps.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2009, 03:00:10 PM »

If I'm completely replacing control arms complete with ball joints do I need to worry about the boots? Do the new ball joints not come with new boots? I haven't ordered parts yet.

About the rubbing, where does that rubbing occur? I'm having trouble visualizing that.

Also, tell me whats wrong with this kit. I've sent an email to ask about brand.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E30-Control-Arm-Arms-Bushing-Tie-Rods-316-318-325_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c0769cf6dQQitemZ120383459181QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

monty23psk · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2009, 04:13:27 PM »

Yes they come with boots. Also other option is to reuse arm and be new ball joints. Just need a press.

Regarding link, never states brand which means cheap. Like Ocapp from China. I can get those. I can also get the OEM lembfoerder arms cheaper than pelican parts. Let me know what you need and I can get you a quote. Guys on here should be able to vouch for me.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2009, 09:10:51 AM »

here is the reply I got

"The parts are Manufactured by Hamburg Technic in Germany"

I did a search on them and got a lot of conflicting reports about thier quality and where the parts come from.

So quote away my friend, I trust you. I need complete control arms with ball joints, M3 bushings, May as well do the tie rods too and front swaybar end links.

So the same parts as that link.

DesktopDave · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:21:39 AM »

Don't do the Hamburg Technic. They looked like decent quality items but ended up being junk. I bought a set for my e34 and the lower arms were the wrong length. You read that right, they were about 3mm too long. The tires were scrubbing the wheel wells before I even had it out of the driveway.

IMHO go with Meyle or recognized brand name at a minimum, Lemfoerder if you want it to last another 15 years. The expense is justified by the amount of time you'll save by not needing to do it all again in three years.

monty23psk · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:30:06 AM »

Lemfoerder Right Arm $103
Left Arm $101
Meyle Right Arm $92
Left Arm $95

Lemfoerder m3 Bushings $115 pair

TRW tie rods $63 ea
Meyle tie rods $45 ea

BMW tie rod lock tabs $0.50 ea

HD Meyle sway bar links $23 ea

All the parts are cheaper than Pelican. Pelican offers Lemfoerder for other parts which is OEM. The bushings have gone up in price and much cheaper at Pelican or even dealer probably. Just not Lemboerder. At this price, getting aftermarket might be worth it.

Shipping of course depends on where. I do it the cheapest possible wayb but with tracking of course. Everything is in stock locally but except offset bushings. Also there is only 1 of each Lemfoerder arms. If I get charged for shipping, will let you know that cost.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2009, 11:55:11 AM »

Ouch! Let me see who supplies Bav-Auto with thier parts before I make any decisions. Are the M3 bushings just the bushings or do they include the lolipop? I can't do 115 for two bushings.

monty23psk · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2009, 12:00:05 PM »

No worries. Yes they are expensive. They used to be $90 for the pair. Not sure why they went up and in the end just expensive. I wouldn't go with them for that price either, that is why I am up front. I hear the dealer ones are about 40 for the pair. These and like stock e30 bushings are just the bushings, no lollipop. I can get the lollipops for about $40 new but can be found as cheap at $10 each used. Just have to spend time looking or go to junkyard.

Ramblin MAn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2009, 08:38:30 AM »

Well, now I'm really confused, here is the reply I got.

"Thank you for your inquiry.

The control arms are our own Bavarian Autosport branded parts that we source in Europe. These have a 2 year warranty. The control arm bushings are Hamburg-Technic brand from Germany."

Now I'm confused. Just because you source something in Eroupe doesn't mean they are made in Germany.

Brakin frakin frikin uhhhhh.

Still debating.