Messages

1

Engine + Driveline / Re: E36 drivetrain shatter on clutch engage

« on: February 20, 2014, 05:11:53 AM »

I had this same problem after installing a lightweight flywheel and M3 clutch on my M44.
The problem in my case appeared to a combination of worn out gearbox mounts and broken exhaust bracket that braces between the gearbox and the section of exhaust just after the catalytic converter.

I too thought that it was my center bearing or flex disc but it would appear that the issue is caused, at least in my case, when moving a slow speeds, slipping the clutch and the drivetrain torquing in its mounts.
Whereas before when I had the dual mass flywheel, both the flex disc and worn out clutch were acting as torsional dampers for the drivetrain, with the lightweight flywheel and M3 clutch, not only is the damping effect of the dual mass flywheel gone but the engagement of the clutch is a lot harsher and can apply a lot more torque to twist the drivetrain. The flex disc is now the only effective torque dampener and with its rubber having quite a high Youngs modulus, it wants to spring back as the clutch slips.
Imagine twisting in a screw with two screwdrivers, one with a shaft made of gum, the other made from an eraser. Now imagine that you're wearing very slippy gloves, the reduced spring back in the gum will allow for a much smoother screw engagement than the eraser material which constantly wants to unbind.

The net result of this (again, I can only speak from my own experience) is that with a combination of worn gearbox and engine mounts, the engine is free to torque in its mounts and when slipping the clutch the drivetrain goes through a cycle of binding and unbinding causing the differential, prop-shaft, gearbox and engine to shake violently. This in turn shakes the exhaust system around, knocking the center or rear boxes against the underside of the body or against the tunnel and in my case eventually braking the gearbox to exhaust bracket, allowing it to shake even further.
This can cause the noise to be very difficult to locate and make tracking down the root cause severely frustrating; I changed my differential fluid fearing that it was on the way out and that I would at least hear a change in tone.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Again, this is purely from my own experiences and your issue could be something entirely different.

2

Engine + Driveline / Re: M42 Thermostat on an M44?

« on: February 20, 2014, 04:11:44 AM »

Thank you for the follow up Benztech. I completely agree with you as after taking the thermostat out, comparing the sealing surfaces and water channel they are indeed quite different; the thermostat fitting into the block as opposed to the thermostat housing obviously required an adjustment of the block to allow water to flow around the thermostat nose.
Also, when comparing the M44 housing with pictures of an M42 gasket, it would appear that the holes line up but that on the M42, where there is an almost straight line between the top bolts, on the M44 there is a corner between the two.

Thanks a million for your help though and for getting back to me

Full disclosure:
I installed a new thermostat and combined housing into my M44 about two weeks ago.
When installing I had to run a small bead of high temp silicone RTV around the edge of the sealing surface as per the Pelican instructions. This fills in any small gaps or scratches in the mating surface which can cause slight weaps from around the standard O-ring. I left this to set for an hour before topping up the coolant as RTV is activated by the moisture in the air and can take some time to set.

The car has been driving much better since. Much smoother on acceleration, heating up to operating temperate within 2 miles and the moisture/condensation issue I was having from my oil not properly heating up is gone; no more condensation induced mayonaise on the oil cap. Also, the HVAC finally blows hot air, hotter than it ever has before. I believe that the thermostat was stuck part way open for a long time and in recent months was stuck completely open. All better now though

3

Engine + Driveline / Re: M42 Thermostat on an M44?

« on: February 05, 2014, 11:25:37 AM »

Thanks for the replies guys

Dave
Do you mean the small slot that runs between the inlet and outlet?
I wonder what the effects would be of welding this channel up and running it on an M44. It makes me wonder if the M44 has this same bleeder pass through but located in the middle of the unit itself as opposed to being at the gasket surface.

Another difference that I can see is that the M42 housing uses a flat gasket where as the M44 uses a moulded O-ring style gasket.

Benz-Tech

Thanks a million, that would be really helpful if you wouldn't mind.

4

Engine + Driveline / M42 Thermostat on an M44?

« on: February 04, 2014, 05:38:08 AM »

Hi Guys,

Been a long time since I posted here, I'm still driving the 318is though

I have a quick question. Can the Alluminium thermostat housing from the M42 fit onto the M44 or even adapted to fit? From what I can see looking at pictures of both they are very similar in shape with a slight difference along the upper edge, the main difference being the gasket.

I'd like to make the change to the M42 housing to reduce the cost of thermostat replacements in future (seperate as opposed to intergrated) and more importantly to move from a plastic part to a metal one; I recently had the plastic coolant pipe at the back of the head sheer off at high speed and put a large amount of water under the wheels.

Any help would be appreciated. If it's not possible and I'm just grasping at straws please let me know too

Thanks,
Paul

5

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / stock turbo summary Q's

« on: June 03, 2010, 01:25:32 PM »

No problem man, just thought i'd clear things up, i've no need nore want for causing forum drama, it just gets in the way of the information

I suppose you're right in saying that whatever we say, should be said with precaution.
This site seems to used as the main BMW m42/44 reference on the internet, so there are a lot of people using it to gather information for their projects, so you're probably in right that we should say "just because you can do it this way, doesn't mean its advisable".

6

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / stock turbo summary Q's

« on: June 03, 2010, 05:23:54 AM »

Hi Nick,
Sorry we may have gotten off on the wrong foot here.
How are you? Whats your favourite colour? Now that all the pleasantries are out of the way...
In all seriousness, if I came across as a dick (which I kind of did) it was most likely because I was projecting my frustrations with the local "experts" onto you, so I apologize for that. They have the tendency to project their opinion's as facts and maybe I jumped the gun in assuming that your advice was doing the same thing.
For example, one of them tried to tell my friend (a fellow Mech. Eng. student), that putting a fuel pump from a Golf into his Polo would give it 10 extra bhp, regardless of the fact that the Polo is a bone stock 1000cc 8 valve, with a perfectly functioning fuel pump.

Yes, it would be possible to run 13:1 static compression, 10 atmospheres of boost and WD40 as engine oil, but I don't think those levels of idiocy are comparable to running a turbo on the stock Motronic. Of course the Motronic isn't ideal, as it doesn't have the resolution required for fine tuning a force induced engine, but that doesn't mean that it can't be made to work.
If on a very tight budget, the ability to get a turbo to "work" before investing in a piggyback/standalone can be very useful.
I was just trying to present all the options available, similar to how I said "thousands" of turbos, when realistically, there are only a few dozen suitable for a standard engine setup.

This isn't the first turbocharged car that I have worked on. A number of builds that I have been involved with have competed and won the circuit of Ireland rally championship along with competing in the Irish and British rounds of the WRC. Thats not even thinking about the numerous Rally cross and Drift cars that have passed through these doors.

As a matter of full disclosure, I only plan to use the stock Motronic ECU on my build to get the car drivable enough to bring over to Emerald, where they will be fitting a multi-map ECU. Although trailering the car may be a more reasonable option.
The Emerald ECU will have three maps; Street, Sport and Race, selectable by a dashboard mounted switch.
Street will be tuned with drivability and economy in mind with low boost settings,
The water/meth injection will only turn on after the IAT and/or RPM sensor exceed a certain parameter and the soft cut rev limiter will also be set reasonably low.
Sport will be tuned quite similarly, but with the IAT and RPM parameters for meth/water injection being set lower. The rev limit and boost settings will also be raised.
Race will set the meth/water injection to turn on very early in the RPM range to prevent pinging and the boost and rev limit will be set to the maximum that the engine will reliably allow.
For what its worth, these maps can be changed on the fly using the Emerald K6 ECU.

Sorry again for causing an argument, I'll know in future not to come on here after working on a project for 14 hours

7

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / stock turbo summary Q's

« on: June 02, 2010, 03:23:52 PM »

Nick, I mean no offense by this, but that is utter garbage.
Your opinion comes across somehow as both uneducated yet condescending at the same time.

The stock motronic WILL work, it is one of the best stock ECUs that i've come across, standalone is only needed for fine tuning and/or if you plan on going over 7psi in the future.
An adjustable rising rate fuel pressure regulator (RRFPR) combined with 46lb injectors will be enough to get you running, and with a little bit of work, will allow you to safely daily drive the car with this setup (there are members on the forum that have been dailying a similar setup for over 2 years)

I'll try to list off the top of my head what I can.
I am going to performing my turbo conversion over the summer (need more power per € than NA has been providing), so I'll be fitting a very similar setup myself until I get my second low compression engine built.

Hardware

• Turbo

Many thousands of different types to choose from, just have a browse through the forum and you will see. Make sure that it can produce the flow and pressure that you require at a reasonably rpm, generally a smaller turbo will spin up faster than a bigger one, but you will be limited by its maximum pressure, in the event of you upping the boost.
Im looking at either a t25/t28 off a Nissan Silvia myself as they are widely available here and provide enough head room to work with my second engine.
 

• Manifold

You can either DIY this or do as a lot of people on here do and buy an m50 turbo manifold off ebay. They then cut the last two flanges off, blank the open pipe and create an up pipe to the turbo.

• Oil feed

There is information in a few threads in this subforum about where the best place to T this from is. From what I can remember there is a threaded plug at the back of the block that is ideal. You will also have to create a return line to the sump.
You may also need to run water lines to and from your turbo if they are required.

• BOV

Can be DIYed with a good bit of effort, best to get a junk yard item for the moment

• Intercooler

Again, available from the junk yard or ebay

• Larger exhaust

Im not sure if this is necessary, maybe a cat back system would suffice.
The idea is to create minimal back pressure for the turbo, as they create boost due to differential pressures.

• Larger fuel pump

Not really sure about this one, ill have to look around and see if it is required at low boost levels or just the higher levels.
[/LIST]

not sure parts

• Larger injectors

I think 46lb injectors is what most people use, and can support upto roughly 260rwhp

• Oil cooler

Depends on your local environment, might be required if you experience high temps

• Radiator

Same as with oil cooler

• Vacuum

There are a good few points where you can T off vacuum for the wastegate, bov etc. The idle control valve and carbon canister stick out in my mind as places but ill have to double check.

• Intake boot

There is a silicon 90* bend available that works. Its part no. is listed on the forum, ill have to find it later.

The other things that I can think of at the moment...
...sorry, its 4.10am :rolleyes:

• 10w50 Oil (slightly heavier oil is required as the standard oil gets heated up too quickly by the turbo)
• 1 degree colder spark plugs
• emm, a good service...dont give your engine a reason to fail on you :D

I'll come back and tidy this up tomorrow, and add anything to it that I can remember. My apologies for the half, I only realized how tired I was after starting to type lol

8

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / 318is turbo with itb's

« on: December 27, 2009, 08:21:40 PM »

I think this a rare occasion where you are both right.

On an engine like the m42/m44, where the intake manifold is a massive deliberate restriction in power
(for emissions purposes, to keep it's power away from the "higher" models and as a side effect of the hunt for more torque),
then throttle bodies on their own when combined with proper tuning and fuel/spark supporting mods, will make a massive difference in power and the freeness of the engine.

However, in the case of an engine like the F20c or K20a found in some of the more recent Hondas, throttle bodies become more of a supporting mod for head or cam work, rather than a completely independent mod.
Thats not to say you wont make more power from a change to ITBs on a K20/F20, but the increase in power will be less dramatic compared to an m42/m44.

The main difference is that on an m42/m44, the main restriction is the intake manifold, where as on a K20/F20, the intake is quite evenly matched to the head, and both are quite high performing parts to begin with.




Regarding independent throttle bodies combined with forced induction, they are generally not used other than to compensate for a biased manifold design and/or where fine adjustment of the individual runner flow is necessary.
For the GTI-R and the Skyline GT-R, i think it was equal parts of both.
On GTI-R for example, the intake manifold was at an almost perpendicular angle to the runners due to space restriction in the engine bay,
and also the car was designed with the intention of being homologated for racing, so fine adjustment of the individual runner flow was desirable.

Whether the same principle applies to the m42/m44, i dont know, as i have yet to build my manifold.
However, the evidence seems to suggest that they are a good idea, as with the car linked above, i read somewhere that it is making signifigant hp. (400+bhp)
http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k267/Bonje_80/318is%20turbo/

I think this could be down to the throttle bodies being able to compensate for the reasonably perpendicular manifold design caused by the long intake runners (which are good for torque) almost like having your cake and eating it too : ).

I will state however, that i certain cases like on high powered Skyline GT-R, the independent throttle bodies start to become a restriction when compared to a single throttle body, but this mod is generally combined with a very well designed intake manifold.

This is all based upon my own personal experience, reading engine design books, talking with engineers and through my college work.
It is by no means fact, just my observations on the scenario which i hope are correct, or at least make SOME sort of sense.

Quinn11m20
It was unfortunate that you cursed in your post, as you managed to dilute an otherwise valid point.
Cars are made for having fun. Whether it is having fun while building the car, or having fun with the car you've built, it is important to do things in a way that suits you. Forget trends and forum opinion, it is YOUR car at the end of the day.

9

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / Super charging my M42 (UK)

« on: October 12, 2009, 01:52:39 PM »

^Really??...

Four months of inactivity, and you ask someone, on an engine specific forum, why they didn't install a different engine:confused:

If im jumping the gun here then i apologize, but please don't try turn this thread into a straight 6 vs 4 cylinder discussion.

Vision, i'd love to see some updates
I'm very tempted to go with a Rotrex charger now, as they seem to be much more compact and quieter than the Eaton.

10

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / dynotech motorsports budget turbo build

« on: August 04, 2009, 04:31:58 PM »

Very impressed with the build Todd.

Your Ms is making me reconsider my plans for a rrfp.

Looking forward to the update

11

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / Super charging my M42 (UK)

« on: April 26, 2009, 04:38:45 PM »

Thanks very much for the reply mate,
actually when i went and googled "mocal remote head", think automotive came up, so i got on their website

Good luck with your build

12

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / Intake manifold for NA

« on: April 26, 2009, 04:28:05 PM »

Emm...
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4605/manifold.jpg
^The visible flap on an M3 CSL airbox is for a switchable second entry into the airbox, the m3 csl uses Independent throttle bodies!

By copying the CSL style and only using a single throttle body at the chamber throat, you will be losing allot of torque, and probably horsepower too.

Have a search for Helmholtz frequency/resonance before setting out to build an NA plenum.

NA plenums are allot harder to get right compared to a turbo manifold.

Basically, an NA plenum should promote even distribution of air to each cylinder aswell as increasing the suck effect of the engine.
Where as a turbo manifold has to ensure even distribution of air to each cylinder, and guide the air as smoothly as possible into the engine.
It is allot easier to guide air, than it is to help suck air.



Good luck with making your manifold man, but please read up on what your doing first, they're allot harder to get right than they look..
...ive been designing/prototyping mine for nearly a year now!

13

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / Super charging my M42 (UK)

« on: April 17, 2009, 07:41:40 PM »

Very, very impressed with your work, you certainly don't hang about.

Can i ask how much your remote oil filter kit cost you?
I'd love to remote mount my filter when cleaning up my engine bay.

Ill be watching this thread closely

14

Swaps, Turbos, Buildups / M42 race engine

« on: April 15, 2009, 12:34:51 PM »

"Desire to turbocharge........getting weaker...."

Excellent Thread, i really hope that you succeed, and pave the way for future m42/44 barn stormers!

15

Off-topic discussion / Random information thread!

« on: August 30, 2008, 06:16:46 PM »

Jimmy Lewis
I love that movie, i think the main difference though between what i did and what he did, is that he took the knifes from the store...and then got the refund for something he didnt buy lol.
great movie, i love the bit where he wakes up and there is a knight looking at him.

P.kennedy and mkdoma
Your post's are kinda surreal, because my character in the Rock game is called buckethead, and also my old dog was buster......strange!

BMWman91- I doubt that you'd get in trouble for finding a more efficient way of doing something...after all, isnt that what science is all about?