M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: tjts1 on May 10, 2007, 10:00:51 PM

Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 10, 2007, 10:00:51 PM
Phil has updated the procedure with an excellent summary of all our collective knowledge thus far. Thanks Phil! :D
Quote from: teh Phil;74524
Parts you will need:

•   Plastic Coolant Pipe from Block (Part # 11531714738) (Diagram Link (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1154&hg=11&fg=10&hl=4))
*NOTE: Make sure this is OEM! Aftermarket pipes have been found to leak, as noted here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7574)*
•   O-Ring for Pipe (Part # 11531709157)
•   Throttle Body Gasket (Part # 13541743261) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0309&hg=13&fg=15))
•   Upper – Lower Intake Gasket (Part # 11611717761) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_0953&hg=11&fg=40))
•   Lower Intake – Block Gasket (Part # 11611734684) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_0953&hg=11&fg=40))
•   BMW Antifreeze (Part # 82141467704)
Or whatever brand you choose, of course.
•   5/8” Coolant Hose
•   5/16” Fuel Hose (Make sure it is fuel INJECTION hose, not fuel hose for a carb)
•   19/32” Vacuum Hose
I found all three hoses at Advance.
*NOTE: DO NOT use fuel hose for vacuum hose or vice versa. If improper lines are used they could expand or collapse.*

Under the manifold, as pictured in this thread, there is a mess of hoses.
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Mess.jpg)
In addition, you get rid of the throttle body heating plate, which as many have said, is of no use. Most of the hoses are unnecessary, and we’re getting rid of them as well as rerouting the vacuum lines to make future maintenance easier, and limit the number of possible leak points. Most importantly, you’re getting rid of the two junctions. You’re replacing the plastic coolant pipe because it’s relatively cheap, and they tend to crack over time on M42s. In the end you’ll have three hoses:
•   One vacuum hose from the valve cover to the intake elbow.
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/VC-TB.jpg)
•   One vacuum hose from the idle control valve to the intake elbow
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Elb-ICV.jpg)
(the other side of the idle control valve will go to the same place, but you can extend the hose if you’d like to make the ICV easier to access.)
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/I-ICV.jpg)
•   One coolant hose from the coolant pipe’s outlet to the nipple on the head. This is a personal preference; some have simply plugged the two holes. Read more here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621).
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Coolant.jpg)
These two hoses are NOT the same size. Even though I trust the results found here, I'm still wary of my head cracking, so I thought I would connect the two just to be safe. A local plumbing supply store rigged this up for me, and I haven't had any leaks. It's not pretty, but it works.
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Junction.jpg)
I'll report back in a few months, but it seems fine. Just in case I do find a leak, I ran this just outside of the lower intake, so I can plug the lines with some bolts if necessary.
When you’re done, don’t forget to bleed the cooling system! Here’s how (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6597).

Other things to think about while you’re down there…
•   Are the two rubber coolant hoses that meet the plastic pipe we’re replacing in good shape? (#s 4 and 22 here (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35))
•   Do you want to install a catch can? It’s really not necessary if you use synthetic oil, but some have put one in line between the valve cover and the throttle body.
•   Is it time to upgrade your injectors? Many have upgraded to Ford’s 4 pistil injectors (as opposed to our 1 jet) for better atomization of fuel. Read more here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233).
•   If you don’t want to change out your injectors, at least give them a clean! Pelican Parts explains how (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm).
•   The rubber hoses going into the hard lines on the lower intake. You have to buy some short pieces that lead from the hard lines to the fuel rail, so you might as well do a little preventative maintenance and buy a few feet. (#s 15 and 16 here (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0308&hg=13&fg=15))
•   Clean out your AFM sensor!

For those still interested this was the original post that got this whole thing started.

This is a continuation of my renovation thread for my 318i
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2676
At this point I'm in the process of eliminating the Medusa of hoses under the intake.

Here it is in all its ugly glory.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/205/493177227_4d3a9ece47_o.jpg)

138k miles and 17 years.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/493177133_60e5b2dbe3_o.jpg)

Lets count the leaks.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/493158600_02a6653204.jpg)

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/493158584_d7c5a17ad7.jpg)

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/493158566_530a270e3d.jpg)

Virtually every hose is split at both ends.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/493177161_d467e8aee6.jpg)

None of this stuff is going back into the car.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/493158496_c1212245fb.jpg)

I'm sure this is a familiar sight to many of you.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/493158356_ca0a97f370.jpg)

This is the #1 port after cleaning out about 1/4" thick layer of sludge all around the port.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/493158474_48dc090e42.jpg)

For contrast: 2 clean ports in the foreground and 2 dirty in the background. The picture doesn't do it justice. That stuff is nasty, thick sticky and smelly. I will add a catch can to the new vent hose in order to separate the oil oil before it hits the intake.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/493180683_6b681ac4b2_o.jpg)

Freshy fresh parts from FCPgroton and Pelican. The first one to name all the parts correctly gets a special prize.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/493160060_39f037cba2_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johna on May 10, 2007, 10:08:35 PM
Control arm x 2, control arm bushes x 2, radiator hose x 2, heater hose, engine mount, auxillary  belts x 2, inlet manifold gaskets x 2, throttle body gasket, cardboard box?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 10, 2007, 10:14:11 PM
Congratulations. You win milk and cookies. Enjoy :D
(http://www.onlyinhouston.org/attachments/wysiwyg/50/Image/food_cookies&milk.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on May 11, 2007, 06:35:21 AM
Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?

I should probly take off my manifold, hasn't been done in 200k miles ;). How difficult is it do remove?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: FL318is on May 11, 2007, 07:35:08 AM
That is scary! :eek:
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 11, 2007, 09:42:16 AM
mine was no where near that bad. however the catch can is a good idea, thats one of the things i'm gona do when i get home.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 11, 2007, 10:53:35 AM
Quote from: gearheadE30;25448
Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?

I should probly take off my manifold, hasn't been done in 200k miles ;). How difficult is it do remove?

Its sort of a frustrating process because you don't have access to the hoses holdind the TB plates and fuel lines for example. But if you are willing to cut hoses with reckless abandon, you should have it all out in about 1 hours. This includes time to ponder "WTF is that?"
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: chris325ix on May 11, 2007, 12:23:43 PM
I know it's crazy but I can't wait to get a 318is so I can take apart the upper portion of the motor and replace all the worn out stuff like that... lol!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Alpine003 on May 11, 2007, 12:38:45 PM
That kind of sludge is normal if you use regular dino oil, use poor fuel, drive the car hard all the time, have vacuum issues, and high mileage in general.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 12, 2007, 02:22:02 PM
Now that all the hoses are out, you can see where the long coolant run begins on the side of the head between cyl 2 and 3, and ends at the coolant return pipe on the side of the block.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/495150433_e5fae4f1df_o.jpg)

The coolant bypass is made out of a 1 foot long piece of 5/8" heater hose.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)

And finally the lower intake reinstalled.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/495115032_9489d7e1d8_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: christophbmw on May 12, 2007, 02:36:42 PM
replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 12, 2007, 02:42:08 PM
Hmmm, does that part fail often? It looked solid to me but who knows. I already have lower intake in so I think i'll keep it for a while. Thanks for the tip.

The whole cooling system on this car is insane. I've counted at least 20 hoses on the side of the engine. WTF were these people thinking? A normal cooling system needs 4 hoses. 2 for the radiator and 2 for the heater. Thats it. I guess K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) doesn't translate well into German.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: oldtimer on May 12, 2007, 09:33:50 PM
You are lucky that you got all the parts you need to replace some aging parts.  When I got my 1991 318is I noticed the same things so I ordered them through Pelican, one out o seven tubes was correct and wrong intake manifold gasket.  Had to rely on the dealer to finish the job.  Going to the dealer I had two legs it was hard to drive the Boxster S with one leg.  Parts at the delear were on the high side.

I am sure most of you knows this.  But to clean something like that, use "white Gas".  The same gas used on camping stove and lamps.  I take photos of my engine bay to show result from doing the same thing you are doing.

Ben
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 13, 2007, 08:47:21 AM
post up some pics. i want to see how clean this stuff gets things.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 13, 2007, 01:47:32 PM
http://bp2.blogger.com/_MjQwpLOTuIM/Rkdbri1_SrI/AAAAAAAAAA0/SSQJGjBhcqk/s1600-h/IMG_0278.jpg
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 13, 2007, 01:50:32 PM
interesting catch can. did you just plug the hose on the rubber elbow and make the crank vent go straight into the cup?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 13, 2007, 01:54:19 PM
Quote from: kowalski;25630
interesting catch can. did you just plug the hose on the rubber elbow and make the crank vent go straight into the cup?


yes,

there is no oil in the SPRITE cup, just some water in cold season ;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: thebigbadyeti on May 13, 2007, 02:49:54 PM
While your cleaning everything up...clean up that motor as well :).... lol...
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 13, 2007, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;25632
yes,

there is no oil in the SPRITE cup, just some water in cold season ;)


gotch ya. I'll probably do this... does it not act up at all? usually with a crankcase leak it gets unhappy...?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: oldtimer on May 13, 2007, 08:36:55 PM
Will do once I figure out how to attach photos to my reply.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: FL318is on May 13, 2007, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: oldtimer;25660
Will do once I figure out how to attach photos to my reply.


When you post a reply, scroll down below until you see Manage Attachments and there you have it.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 14, 2007, 01:57:00 AM
Quote from: kowalski;25642
gotch ya. I'll probably do this... does it not act up at all? usually with a crankcase leak it gets unhappy...?


no any leaks, the engine is after complete rebuild..
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 14, 2007, 02:49:17 AM
Quick and dirty catch can (read fuel filter) until I find something more appropriate and I relocated the ICV (zip ties FTW!) because BMW's placement was stupid. More importantly, vacuum hoses are within easy reach without having to remove the whole intake.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/497586486_33da7d22bf_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 14, 2007, 04:00:42 AM
where other end of filter is connected??
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 14, 2007, 04:37:34 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;25673
no any leaks, the engine is after complete rebuild..



but doesn't that catch can with the hose in it basically act the same as a crank case leak, as its the valve cover vent.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 14, 2007, 12:10:29 PM
Quote from: kowalski;25680
but doesn't that catch can with the hose in it basically act the same as a crank case leak, as its the valve cover vent.


yes, but I cant understand your mind :)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 14, 2007, 01:19:04 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;25679
where other end of filter is connected??

Under the rubber elbow between the air meter to the throttle body where the crankcase ventilation normally ends.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: D. Clay on May 14, 2007, 01:21:47 PM
Most in line catch cans are sealed and not usually part of the PCV system. To work they would need to be similar to a water trap in a diesel fuel line. They must be periodically drained.
Where does air enter the crankcase on an M42? It exits from the valve cover to the throttle body?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 14, 2007, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: D. Clay;25703
Where does air enter the crankcase on an M42? It exits from the valve cover to the throttle body?
Its a sealed system. As far as I can tell it doesn't take in fresh air anywhere. It just has an outlet for the blow by gases that get around the piston rings. If there was fresh air coming in, it would act like a vacuum lean and mess with the engine management. The blow by gases have already been burned in the combustion chamber and therefore contain no oxygen. Its a very toxic inert gas.

This is the catch can I use on my volvo. Its a high pressure air filter for pneumatic industrial machinery. Its very effective. Eventually I'll get another one for the BMW.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/498425195_19bdcfbb4f.jpg)

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/498383198_a131c6b2f1.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Alpine003 on May 14, 2007, 03:41:00 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;25629
http://bp2.blogger.com/_MjQwpLOTuIM/Rkdbri1_SrI/AAAAAAAAAA0/SSQJGjBhcqk/s1600-h/IMG_0278.jpg


Lol, that's almost as bad as this:
(http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/8/web/452000-452999/452640_24_full.jpg)

No need to substitute all sorts of non car gizmos for this as Jegs or Summit carries catch cans for cheap.

Or if you wanna go for the bling: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Reservoir-Catch-Can-Tank-Mustang-GT-Probe-ZX2-SILVR_W0QQitemZ280113147994QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6778QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

IMO, catch cans are really only needed if you do a lot of track events or drive fast on the highway for extended periods of time on a daily basis. Obviously if you have some sort of forced induction, then it's a must.
Title: And so expensive!
Post by: D. Clay on May 14, 2007, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Alpine003;25717
Or if you wanna go for the bling: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Reservoir-Catch-Can-Tank-Mustang-GT-Probe-ZX2-SILVR_W0QQitemZ280113147994QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6778QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Gotta have the bling-bling!
I've had Hondas that took in air and had a metering jet into the intake. I also had Volvo 240 with a "Spark Arrester" instead of a PCV valve. It clogged up and blew out all the seals. It looks like in tjts1's pics that there may some serious blow by going on. Hope I'm wrong.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 14, 2007, 11:28:01 PM
The 240 actually has very little blow by or oil burn off. It consumes about 1 quart in 7k miles. The flame trap mechanism is pathetic on those cars. But everything that gets by the flame trap tends to stick to the TB and intake. After 100k miles it turns into a horrible mess and starts to restrict air flow. Thats the last thing you want on the low power B230.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 1991 E30 M42 on May 15, 2007, 07:19:01 AM
Quote from: gearheadE30;25448
Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?



Maybe the the  crank case vent that goes into the bottom of the throttle body.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 15, 2007, 08:04:43 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;25699
yes, but I cant understand your mind :)


hahaha, k ill explain myself. If you start your engine, and take off the oil cap it runs rough because its venting air. If you vent the valve cover into the open air it would have the same effect would it not? or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak? Basically what i'm getting at is does this oil catch can that you'v got there simulate a crank case leak due to an open line?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 15, 2007, 10:35:59 AM
Both ends of the oil catch can are are connected to a closed system. One end of the catch can is connected to the valve cover, the other is connected to the intake tube. The gases coming out of the valve cover to the catch are inert. There is no oxygen. If there are no vacuum leaks, the gases coming out of the valve cover are a combination of oil fumes, inert blow by gases that got around the piston rings and a little bit of moisture.
Quote from: kowalski;25758
or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak?
Yes!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: romkasponka on May 15, 2007, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: kowalski;25758
hahaha, k ill explain myself. If you start your engine, and take off the oil cap it runs rough because its venting air. If you vent the valve cover into the open air it would have the same effect would it not? or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak? Basically what i'm getting at is does this oil catch can that you'v got there simulate a crank case leak due to an open line?


I instaled plug where it is connected to the intake and there is no leak.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 15, 2007, 12:26:22 PM
perfect, i understand now:)

so technically there should be some sort of performance gain by removing these non usable gases out of the system... however small they may be.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 15, 2007, 12:47:32 PM
I suppose on an all out track car I would allow the crankcase to vent directly to the atmosphere but on a street car you will get a whiff of some very nasty carcinogenic odors every time you are sitting at a light. Some motorcycles and track cars actually vent the crankcase into the exhaust through a one way valve. The gases rushing through the exhaust can create a bit of a vacuum in the crankcase which can free up a few HP. Venting the crankcase at the mouth of the TB does the same thing to a lesser extent. I personally wouldn't vent the crankcase to the atmosphere but thats just me. The performance gain is simple too small. Keep in mind that this is also very illegal. Connecting the crankcase to the intake was one of the first emissions devices conceived back in the 50s.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kowalski on May 15, 2007, 03:10:10 PM
the exhaust idea is good so it vents into the cat.
Title: Damn hoses
Post by: dlmrun2002 on May 15, 2007, 08:34:30 PM
I feel your pain.  I just did a new engine install and replaced every coolant hose.  Plus heater hoses  and some vac lines.  200 miles later I see a very small  anti freeze leak  running down the passenger side of tranny. Just a few drops. Oil cap  is not cloudy. Hopefully  I"ll  find a loose hose-- pleeeeeze
DLM
Title: ahh mann
Post by: zav3n on May 17, 2007, 09:30:12 PM
Quote from: christophbmw;25557
replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)


all i can say is wow i should have listened to you!!!!....  plus BMA and the dealship were closed by the time i found out and i need my car tomorrow LMAO..

(http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42482.jpg)

(http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: oldtimer on May 17, 2007, 10:00:29 PM
Sorry this photos are late.  I said I will take some photos to show you just how clean the "white gas" can get the engine bay clean.  Remember oil acts like a bounding solution when dirty like sand and dust clings to it.  The white gas defuses pertrolium base substance hence when you spray white in that area it will dis-bond the dirt then all you have to do is spray it with air blow off any sand or dirt that use to be glued together by the oil.


By the way all this new way to catch the extra moisture from the crankcase, isn't that the same when you use the water seperator for your air compressor.  If so once in awhile you'll need to drain the water that was collected.  For a daily drive that's a lot of work without any major power gain, much like the COP mod a lot of machining and fabricating but no performance gain.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: dude8383 on May 20, 2007, 06:31:41 PM
Quote from: zav3n;25997
all i can say is wow i should have listened to you!!!!....  plus BMA and the dealship were closed by the time i found out and i need my car tomorrow LMAO..

(http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42482.jpg)

(http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg)


What is the part number for this piece?!

I've been trying to figure it out, but the diagram on realoem doesn't give it a number!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: zav3n on May 20, 2007, 08:16:58 PM
omg i had the hardest time trying to figure this out... pacific BMW acually quoted me 297 dollars and then when i ask for the part number they hung up on me then i ask bma and they got the part right away. and while i was trying to figure it out christophbmw sent me a pm w/ the pn but i checked it to late lol...

hope this helps.!

water pipe : 11 53 1 714 738
o-ring        : 11 53 1 709 157



here are some pics of my new set up without the mess.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 20, 2007, 08:34:10 PM
Looks like you mounted the ICV above the vac hose to the brakes booster. I have it below. I think I'll re route mine to look more like urs but  I was afraid the wiring to the ICV was too short. I put about 100 miles on mine since dropping all that garbage and so far so good. I have my fingers crossed that that plastic pipe doesn't leave me on the side of the road before I replace it. My engine also needs a big dose of cleaning.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/506865750_6961ea3ae2_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: zav3n on May 21, 2007, 12:15:58 AM
ya i was looking for a way to mount the icv and i tried to put it under but i didnt think it would withstand my driving lol.. anyway so far so good ima put a electric fan in soon soo ill have more room too work on the engine..

ps what kind of filter should i use for the catch can i dont want anything fancy just something that works good..

-Zaven
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: dude8383 on May 21, 2007, 12:49:01 AM
Quote from: zav3n;26189
omg i had the hardest time trying to figure this out... pacific BMW acually quoted me 297 dollars and then when i ask for the part number they hung up on me then i ask bma and they got the part right away. and while i was trying to figure it out christophbmw sent me a pm w/ the pn but i checked it to late lol...

hope this helps.!

water pipe : 11 53 1 714 738
o-ring        : 11 53 1 709 157



here are some pics of my new set up without the mess.


Dude...THANK YOU!

I can't tell you how long I've been trying to get those numbers.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: n2motorsports on May 27, 2007, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: tjts1;25556
The coolant bypass is made out of a 1 foot long piece of 5/8" heater hose.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)



Based on the above picture, was that the only modification you made under the intake manifold?

btw great write-up and great idea, anything to eliminate clutter while reducing the risk of unexpected leaks is a must do mod for me.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: D. Clay on May 27, 2007, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: zav3n;25997

(http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg)
What is the part number for this tube. I cannot find it in realoem or bmwfans.info.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wise Old Dog on May 27, 2007, 04:47:02 PM
11531714738 It's listed under the engine housing section.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 31, 2007, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: n2motorsports;26662
Based on the above picture, was that the only modification you made under the intake manifold?

btw great write-up and great idea, anything to eliminate clutter while reducing the risk of unexpected leaks is a must do mod for me.

Basically yes. I just gave the coolant a much shorter route from the head to the return pipe.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on May 31, 2007, 04:22:15 PM
I'm going to be removing my intake very soon as well. Is it worth it to take the plate out? Have there been any nagative consequences such as bad cold idle or fuel mileage? My dad thinks I should put it all back as the factory had it, but I'm not sure its worth the troble. Being that we get weather down to about 0 degrees sometimes in the winter, would I have any major problems if I remove it?

Thanks for the advice and the great pics
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 31, 2007, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: gearheadE30;26903
I'm going to be removing my intake very soon as well. Is it worth it to take the plate out? Have there been any nagative consequences such as bad cold idle or fuel mileage? My dad thinks I should put it all back as the factory had it, but I'm not sure its worth the troble. Being that we get weather down to about 0 degrees sometimes in the winter, would I have any major problems if I remove it?

Thanks for the advice and the great pics


The plate was a bandaid BMW added after designing the whole engine in order to pass start up emissions in the US. Take a close look at this BMW publicity shots from when the engine was first intruduced. No plate.
(http://www.mwerks.com/gallery/albums//BMW/3-Series/3%20Series%20(E30)/3er%20Coupe%20and%20Sedan/002.jpg)

I have put about 500 miles on the car without the plate and I'm getting 27mpg.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: e9nine on May 31, 2007, 08:51:04 PM
I have eliminated the plate twice on m42s with no harmful after effect
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on June 01, 2007, 03:33:13 PM
Good to know, I think I'll toss it
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: christophbmw on June 02, 2007, 12:32:03 PM
Quote from: tjts1;25711
Its a sealed system. As far as I can tell it doesn't take in fresh air anywhere. It just has an outlet for the blow by gases that get around the piston rings. If there was fresh air coming in, it would act like a vacuum lean and mess with the engine management. The blow by gases have already been burned in the combustion chamber and therefore contain no oxygen. Its a very toxic inert gas.


im pretty sure our PCV system goesg throught the timing case up to the valve cover hose wich goes to the TB. and if that line from the valve cover to TB is not tightened with a clamp or if it is cracked and leaking our M42's are usaully prone to rear main failure due to the crank case pressure (or at least thats what ive discovered in my experience). correct me if im wrong.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Frankie on October 06, 2007, 12:49:31 AM
Quote from: christophbmw;25557
replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)


What plastic coolant junction?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 06, 2007, 10:35:25 AM
This piece with the green coolant inside.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/495150433_e5fae4f1df_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bmuser on October 15, 2007, 07:00:54 PM
sorry but what plate are you guys talking about?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on October 15, 2007, 08:01:29 PM
It is a plate that is mounted between the throttle body and the upper intake manifold. It looks like an aluminum spacer from the top. I recently learned that it was put there to keep the throttle body from freezing at low temps. Apparently chinks of ice were foring in cold weather testing and blocking the TB so it wouldn't close. I havn't heard of this actually happening to anyone who has removed it, but I guess it was only recorded as occuring below 0 degrees. The plate is also a bit of a restriction in the intake and has 4 or 5 hoses running to 2 different plates that get cracked and leak.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: D. Clay on October 15, 2007, 08:02:54 PM
What is result of the catch cans mentioned above. Has anyone found them to trap some oil in liquid form or is the "sludge" in the intake condensed vapors?
Title: help!
Post by: FL318i on October 16, 2007, 01:46:29 PM
where are the 2 rubber hoses coming from the head cover going to, the ones with the filter .....
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wise Old Dog on October 16, 2007, 03:05:33 PM
The one with the filter goes to the throttle body, the other one goes to the intake boot (elbow).
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: FL318i on October 26, 2007, 05:25:17 PM
well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: e9nine on October 26, 2007, 05:48:49 PM
Quote from: FL318i;36658
well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????

Check to make sure you connected everything the right way.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: FL318i on October 26, 2007, 05:56:33 PM
i did just like the pictures, but i forgot to mention that this was done at the same time i replace the cxylinder head , since i dont have the tools for cam timing i marked the sprockets and stuff and i put everything back where it was, could this be the problem, maybe the timing is not set right?? or maybe something that had to be done that the pictures are not showing???
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on October 26, 2007, 09:29:09 PM
I just did the same thing, but my idle got better. Chances are that the timing is off.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: FL318i on October 26, 2007, 09:51:01 PM
anyone has e tool for that or an idea how much will it cost??
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bmuser on October 30, 2007, 01:30:48 PM
Quote from: gearheadE30;35797
It is a plate that is mounted between the throttle body and the upper intake manifold. It looks like an aluminum spacer from the top. I recently learned that it was put there to keep the throttle body from freezing at low temps. Apparently chinks of ice were foring in cold weather testing and blocking the TB so it wouldn't close. I havn't heard of this actually happening to anyone who has removed it, but I guess it was only recorded as occuring below 0 degrees. The plate is also a bit of a restriction in the intake and has 4 or 5 hoses running to 2 different plates that get cracked and leak.


So wait, youre saying that if i remove this plate i wont have to replace all of those vacuum hoses? What the OP posted in the first post, the first set of pictures iwth the cracked hoses, I have to replace all of those as well. Pretty much teh same story for me. So are those the 4 to 5 hoses runnig to 2 different plates you are talking about? I dont mean all of them.

Basically why i am confused is that the OP posed the pics of all the cracked hoses, and then a box with new parts and had only 2 hoses in there. And now ure saying that this restrictor plate eliminates some of those vacuum hoses?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wise Old Dog on October 30, 2007, 02:27:39 PM
Removing the heater plate allows you to do a custom re-plumb and eliminate the clutter underneath. But not entirely. You still need 3 hoses, one from the ICV to the intake boot, one from the valve cover to the throttle body, and one that connects the plastic water outlet to the nipple on the head. It does not mean that you get to eliminate everything. The 2 4-way hoses are everyones nightmare, and the first hoses to start falling apart. This allows you to eliminate those 2 hoses. The debate here is weather or not you have to run a hose from the plastic outlet to the nipple on the head. Some don't do it, some do. I will do it next time I have a problem under there. And I will run the hose. I'm not going to chance it. If anyone needs hoses, I have a complete set about 1 1/2 years old that I will sell. Still in excellent condition.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 30, 2007, 05:37:29 PM
Wow I didn't realize this old thread was still around. Heres pics from my original project on pages 1 and 2 if it helps anyone.
http://flickr.com/photos/22313969@N00
Keep in mind that we now know that its completely safe to cap off the coolant hose at both ends instead or running a hose between the two ports.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621
Quote from: FL318i;35841
where are the 2 rubber hoses coming from the head cover going to, the ones with the filter .....
I no longer have the fuel filter in hose on the lower left corner. Just a piece of hose.
Quote from: FL318i;36658
well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????
I had a problem for a while after the conversion where the hose between the idle control valve and the intake was collapsing under vacuum at idle which would cause the engine to stall some times. You can see it happy as the hose squishes down. The solution is to use a length of very strong vacuum hose that won't collapse.
good luck
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: gearheadE30 on October 31, 2007, 12:57:15 PM
Also, be careful with that plastic joint that comes out of the front of the block. In the pic on this page, it is the pipe with coolant visible. Mine cracked off at 3 of the 4 joints, and I wanted to reuse the reletively new pipes and the plastic broken parts were a pain to remove. The plastic gets brittle over time, so it might be a good idea to pick one up before you get started anyway. Ebay has them for $15, and my dealer had them in stock for $35 without the CCA discount.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: E30nate on November 27, 2007, 12:09:34 AM
man this thread has been super helpful. one question though. will taking off the coolant plate from the tb make the car not pass smog? i mean the visual part. some smog techs are pretty picky about stuff like that.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: strad on November 27, 2007, 09:25:40 AM
Find one who isn't.  Guaranteed it will fail if the tech is smart enough to know what an M42 is "supposed" to look like.  

My father in law was smogging a 454 chevy in CA last summer, and the tech failed it on visual because a small nearly hidden part that has no effect on emissions was not present.  That part is NLA from anyone, and we spent the whole day at junkyards finding another 454 that had one that wasn't busted.  So yeah, if you get the wrong tech, you're screwed.  Keep your old parts lol!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: E30nate on November 27, 2007, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: strad;38430
Find one who isn't.  Guaranteed it will fail if the tech is smart enough to know what an M42 is "supposed" to look like.  

My father in law was smogging a 454 chevy in CA last summer, and the tech failed it on visual because a small nearly hidden part that has no effect on emissions was not present.  That part is NLA from anyone, and we spent the whole day at junkyards finding another 454 that had one that wasn't busted.  So yeah, if you get the wrong tech, you're screwed.  Keep your old parts lol!



thats what i figured. even though its not really an emissions device, unless you live like an eskimo, most smog techs are stupid like that. il still try it though, if it doesnt pass, il put it back together.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: D. Clay on November 27, 2007, 11:20:30 AM
(http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1515&d=1189131683)
Make it look OEM. Shorten the studs and use hoses with appropriate fittings and connectors. Most likely they will never notice. They will if it looks like "homemade sin".
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on November 27, 2007, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: D. Clay;38437
Make it look OEM. Shorten the studs and use hoses with appropriate fittings and connectors. Most likely they will never notice. They will if it looks like "homemade sin".
The problem is the smog techs here in California have a book right there in the shop showing them exactly how things are supposed to look including part numbers. Sometimes they pay attention, sometimes they don't. I'm holding on to the heater plate just in case.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: E30nate on November 27, 2007, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: tjts1;38438
The problem is the smog techs here in California have a book right there in the shop showing them exactly how things are supposed to look including part numbers. Sometimes they pay attention, sometimes they don't. I'm holding on to the heater plate just in case.


thats what i was thinking. i will keep the parts just in case, but i live in a small town with one smog shop. if he says anything i can probably buy him a 12 pack and call it good. but if not, i will have to put it back to stock.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DaveM-sport on November 27, 2007, 03:10:06 PM
Removed the heater plates over the weekend. Simple 15min job:)

I like the idea of venting the crankcase gases into the exhaust for an added vacuum.

Just wondering, whats the small pipe that goes in at an angle to the throttle body just underneath the sensor plug.

Just have a blank on both of my cars. Is this something to do with the CAT that ye need to have:confused:
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teamgtnfx01 on December 06, 2007, 10:31:44 PM
i wish i would have seen this thread early because i just took my manifold off today got it beed blasted and clear coated it and replace all those dumb annoying hoses and lines .... wut a bitch it was to do and it was like a  puzzle that wa unsolvable wut a pain and now i see this that u don't even realy need all those hoses,  im so mad right now but i must say if i was to do it again it wouldn't take as long because that dam throttle plate is getting thrown in the bottle of my tool box and it would be so easy to put everything together with out those dam four way hoses...
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jakeb on December 07, 2007, 09:42:36 AM
Quick question.  Is the coolant that is coming out of the head that then goes into the plate the same temp (or close to it) of the temp of the coolant at the gauge temp sensor?  I am planning a 2002 swap and I would bypass all these hoses as well.  Most of them on my swap engine look bad, but it would be nice to put a temp sensor in the bypass hose to run my coolant gauge.  It will be a autometer gauge.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: n2motorsports on December 14, 2007, 01:41:56 PM
I want to eliminate all these hoses tonight, will I need any TORX bits to get to those hoses?

Thanks.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: HaNasich on December 15, 2007, 11:50:59 AM
Quote from: n2motorsports;39450
I want to eliminate all these hoses tonight, will I need any TORX bits to get to those hoses?

Thanks.


No torx in the game.
i just took apart the inlet intake today from my M42, only 10,11,12 and 13 were used, all metrics.
no torx.


Ron.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Asserti on March 05, 2008, 11:00:47 AM
So, any updates on this?

Capping the nipple at the cilinder head off or not? Anyone with troubles this winter or not? Adding the oil pickup or not?

Seems very interesting to do, but I'm a bit sceptic for doing things not the OEM way.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: n2motorsports on March 05, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
I capped it without any issues, but we have very mild winters here in southern california.

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/n2motorsports/cap.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ClodKing on April 25, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
Any more updates on this??

The heater plates are what I am most curious about... Since I live in Canada these might be usefull to me...

You guys were saying they were meant for temperatures below 0 degrees. Was that Celcious, or Farenheit???

Because it's dropped down to -20C with the windchill, so I might want to keep those plates...
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: nomad on April 26, 2008, 12:19:04 PM
You can bypass it without really removing the heater plate. Just bypass it with the hoses and reassemble everything the way it was. If you are really worried though, just buy some new OEM hoses and leave it as is.

I bypassed mine and removed all that stuff. I used a new OEM hose that goes to the center coolant nipple but wrapped it in vulcanizing tape and bent it to fit. I'll be checking on it periodically. But I'm interested in capping it off as seen above.

So what did you use to cap it off? They sell those at the auto part store or the hardware store?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bmwpower on April 27, 2008, 09:59:38 AM
I would not use a cap unless is was reinforced.
Title: Cracked plastic
Post by: txleadfoot on May 06, 2008, 05:49:31 PM
I second that.  I've pulled two and both have been cracked.

Quote from: christophbmw;25557
replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on May 23, 2008, 03:36:56 PM
OK, so I decided to go this route instead of just changing all the cracked lines like I was originally planning.  Looks sooo much cleaner with just the plastic tube and the one coolant line from the block to the the plastic tube.

Man, so much gunk in the ports and lower manifold!  What's good to clean them out?  Brake cleaner + brush?

Also I live in NJ, so I guess I'll guinea and let you guys know if I run into problems down the line in the winter.  I'll be keeping the heater stuff in case one bitter morning the throttle ices up.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: nomad on May 23, 2008, 03:48:52 PM
I suppose instead of a rubber cap you could put a nice big stainless steel bolt in the hose and hoseclamp them on there... I checked my wrapped hose and it looks fine still.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on May 23, 2008, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: batsbats;49972
OK, so I decided to go this route instead of just changing all the cracked lines like I was originally planning.  Looks sooo much cleaner with just the plastic tube and the one coolant line from the block to the the plastic tube.

Man, so much gunk in the ports and lower manifold!  What's good to clean them out?  Brake cleaner + brush?

Also I live in NJ, so I guess I'll guinea and let you guys know if I run into problems down the line in the winter.  I'll be keeping the heater stuff in case one bitter morning the throttle ices up.


Also did you guys just use a lot of rubber fuel lines?  I went to pep boys and the guy said there were ok for running coolant.  Can they withstand the vacuum?  I estimate about 4' for the vacuum lines and 1' for the coolant bypass.  The 4' would be for the

1) Crankcase to bottom of TB ~2'
2) TB Boot to ICV & ICV to Upper Intake Manifold ~2'
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wise Old Dog on May 24, 2008, 07:52:12 AM
3 foot left me with about 4" extra. Fuel line should work just fine.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: nomad on May 24, 2008, 09:15:32 AM
they will collapse a bit when hot and under vacuum. Use the plastic connectors from the stock mess and insert them  in the lines so that no one hose is longer than say 8". The longer the hose the more it collapses in the middle.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on May 24, 2008, 10:17:13 AM
Its very important to use vacuum hose when dealing with vacuum, and fuel line when dealing with fuel. Fuel line will collapse under vacuum and vac hose will expand when under positive pressure. The crankcase hose coming from the valve cover is not exposed to vacuum so you can use generic hose. The hose between the ICV and manifold is under deep vacuum so you have to use reinforced vac hose. Same for the charcoal canister to TB and FPR to TB hose
cheers
Justin
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on June 04, 2008, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: tjts1;50003
Its very important to use vacuum hose when dealing with vacuum, and fuel line when dealing with fuel. Fuel line will collapse under vacuum and vac hose will expand when under positive pressure. The crankcase hose coming from the valve cover is not exposed to vacuum so you can use generic hose. The hose between the ICV and manifold is under deep vacuum so you have to use reinforced vac hose. Same for the charcoal canister to TB and FPR to TB hose
cheers
Justin


I managed to use the heater hose left over to connect the ICV.  Very hard to manipulate/squeeze, duno if that's a good or bad thing.  Just need to make a catch can and I should be good to go :)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: adam12hicks on June 09, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
Hey guys, quick question.  I have my intake torn down and have removed the throttle body heaters.  Right now I've just built a 'u turn' out of two brass air compressor fittings and red loc-tite.  Hard to explain, but each piece has a graduated nozzle on one end and one has a male threaded and the other a female threaded section at 90 degrees.  Put them both together and I ended up with a loc-tite fit 180 degree turn to plug into the two coolant lines beneath the throttle body.

Anyways, I digress... HERE'S my question.  I'd rather pull the whole mess and run the new vacuum lines, but I'm not experienced at pulling the fuel injectors and fuel rail, and don't have the fuel injector o-rings, so I've chosen not to remove the lower intake manifold section.  Can the two coolant ports be accessed without removing the lower manifold?  If I could loop them as shown by the OP then I could go ahead and just pull all that vacuum crap from under the manifold without removing it.

Anyone tried this?  If not I'm just going to cut back the vacuum lines until they're mostly out of the way and keep the coolant line as is.

Thanks guys,
Adam
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: vonkamp on June 10, 2008, 08:15:30 AM
Yes, I did mine without removing the lower intake manifold. It's a tight squeeze but it can be done.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: adam12hicks on June 10, 2008, 12:54:30 PM
Ok thanks... and then one more and I think I'm SET.  I noticed that the vacuum connection on the ICV and the connection on the intake are two different sizes.  Also, the connection on the Throttle Body and the Valve Cover are also two different sizes.  What did you guys do?  Did you use two different sized hoses and connect them in the middle with a coupler or did you use the larger diameter hose and hope the clamp would get it tight on the smaller connection?

Thanks in advance!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on June 10, 2008, 01:08:26 PM
Quote from: adam12hicks;50957
Ok thanks... and then one more and I think I'm SET.  I noticed that the vacuum connection on the ICV and the connection on the intake are two different sizes.  Also, the connection on the Throttle Body and the Valve Cover are also two different sizes.  What did you guys do?  Did you use two different sized hoses and connect them in the middle with a coupler or did you use the larger diameter hose and hope the clamp would get it tight on the smaller connection?

Thanks in advance!


I squeezed with a lot of force and liquid detergent to get 5/8" heater hose for the ICV connections.  Also used 5/8" heater hose for the valve cover to the tb, more plug and play here.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on June 10, 2008, 01:11:01 PM
Oh and, where did you guys mount your catch cans?  It's freaking 100F outside, and couldn't really think of somewhere to neatly mount it.

I pulled my intake manifolds to see how the reroute was doing, and replace the plastic junction.  I cleaned them well last time, but now the lower intake is dirty again :(.

I'm thinking about using an air compressor filter.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 10, 2008, 01:21:58 PM
I installed the catch can in line between the valve cover and intake tube, just sort of hanging mid air. I also used a compressor filter but it got clogged up pretty quick and caused the valve cover to leak from high pressure. I gave up on the catch can and simply use synthetic oil all the time. The intake manifold still gets oily but it the oil doesn't leave thick crusty deposits like dino juice does.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on June 10, 2008, 06:07:50 PM
Quote from: tjts1;50962
I installed the catch can in line between the valve cover and intake tube, just sort of hanging mid air. I also used a compressor filter but it got clogged up pretty quick and caused the valve cover to leak from high pressure. I gave up on the catch can and simply use synthetic oil all the time. The intake manifold still gets oily but it the oil doesn't leave thick crusty deposits like dino juice does.


oic, yeah I run m1 15-50.  the upper intake seemed fine, but the lower where it meets the head was lightly covered.  I think running it 10 laps @ new road course did not help either.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: adam12hicks on June 10, 2008, 08:54:01 PM
10 laps?  What happened?  Did you break or chicken out ;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AcSchnitzer318is on June 24, 2008, 01:16:00 AM
Excellent thread.  Performed this mod today in about 6 hours.  A long time I know, but I was also cleaning, stripping, and painting my upper manifold and TB so there was a lot of wait time.  Came out great and am much happier without the rat's nest of vacuum/coolant lines under the intake.:cool:

Thanks a bunch.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: adam12hicks on June 24, 2008, 08:56:44 AM
AC Can you take a picture of what you ended up with?  What size hose did you use to connect the ICV to the intake boot and manifold?

Thanks!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on June 24, 2008, 08:56:52 AM
Quote from: adam12hicks;51003
10 laps?  What happened?  Did you break or chicken out ;)


New road course opened up, and they allowed session of five laps each.  I made in time for the last two sessions and drove home. :)  FREE lap time btw.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AcSchnitzer318is on June 24, 2008, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: adam12hicks;51922
AC Can you take a picture of what you ended up with?  What size hose did you use to connect the ICV to the intake boot and manifold?

Thanks!


Sure, pics below.  I used 1/2" heater hose for the ICV to boot run.  Did it in 3 sections.  First section is like 3" long with a 90 degree elbow.  Second section is about 8" with a splicing insert in it which connects the third section to it.  Third section of hose is about 8" long.  I didn't want any chance of the hose collapsing.    I mostly reused stock hoses (because of the bends) for the VC to TB run.  I wanted to run it under the manifold like stock does.  Looks damn near stock.  

(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4539/img1092rb0.jpg)

(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/858/img1093js8.jpg)

(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9287/img1094tj9.jpg)

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4308/img1095jt9.jpg)

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8146/img1096ej0.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: adam12hicks on June 24, 2008, 06:57:38 PM
Looks great!  Nice work!  Where did you buy the elbows?  Or did you just use ones you had?  I've not found a lot of hose parts at AutoZone, Pep Boys or O'Reilly yet.  They have hose, but not a lot of fittings.  I'd love to just find some 1/2" to 1/2" connectors (for the same reason as you - to prevent collapsing) and a few elbows like that.  Did the 1/2" fit snuggly?  I know some of the other members have used 3/8" but it's apparently a very, very tight fit.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AcSchnitzer318is on June 25, 2008, 09:06:20 AM
I reused most of the stock stuff... but did find 90's at pep boys.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: colin86325 on June 25, 2008, 07:42:59 PM
A decent plumbing supply shop will have all manner of plastic hose barbs and 90 degree elbows.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: aceofsnett on July 13, 2008, 11:33:31 PM
Alright, so let me see if I have this straight. The basic ideas are to connect the ICV directly to the throttle body, and connect the crankcase vent directly to the intake elbow, eliminating everything else, including the throttle body heater plate? My intake is apart right now to replace a heater hose, and I would love to do this. What do I need in terms of non standard supplies? Just 1/2" and 5/8" heater hose?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AcSchnitzer318is on July 14, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
Flip that around... ICV to intake elbow, and valve cover to the bottom of the TB.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on July 14, 2008, 01:48:25 AM
Quote from: AcSchnitzer318is;53259
Flip that around... ICV to intake elbow, and valve cover to the bottom of the TB.


+1
This thread will live in infamy!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: aceofsnett on July 22, 2008, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: adam12hicks;51952
Looks great!  Nice work!  Where did you buy the elbows?  Or did you just use ones you had?  I've not found a lot of hose parts at AutoZone, Pep Boys or O'Reilly yet.  They have hose, but not a lot of fittings.  I'd love to just find some 1/2" to 1/2" connectors (for the same reason as you - to prevent collapsing) and a few elbows like that.  Did the 1/2" fit snuggly?  I know some of the other members have used 3/8" but it's apparently a very, very tight fit.


I found awesome solid brass 1/2" to 1/2" connectors at home depot. The brass will last forever and look a  hell of a lot better than plastic. I'm doing this mod this week, hopefully it will go smoothly.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: HMS_Tim on July 23, 2008, 07:19:57 AM
HAHA!  This is the first I saw of this thread.  It's funny cause I just did it to my motor last week!  I didn't know it was here.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: dbgrubbs on August 17, 2008, 01:31:08 PM
Just removed all the mess last night. I used some of the original hoses and only had to buy some 5/8" hose and 1 reducing fitting.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: EN318isPDX on September 24, 2008, 12:07:56 PM
When it this going to get stickied? I always end up searching for it
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JP 91iS on September 25, 2008, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: EN318isPDX;57291
When it this going to get stickied? I always end up searching for it


True, after seeing another question and the inevitable tjts1 link response, I was coming in here to say the same thing.  +1 to sticky.  D.clay made a similar thread but this one has more info.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 91 318is on October 03, 2008, 09:57:26 PM
you guys find any local auto parts store that had vaccum hoses big enough to work?  All I could find is 5/8 heater hose at advnace auto.  Where has everyone else gone?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jimmy Lewis on October 03, 2008, 10:53:58 PM
What else do you need? 5/8 worked for me. To fit it on the ICV I had to heat it up and then jam it on with hairspray. The bit between the ICV and manifold sees heavy vacuum so you need something stiff. I bought that bit at a boat store, it was meant as pressured water hose, it does the job.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 91 318is on October 04, 2008, 11:18:35 AM
Just did this on my 91 and idles much better now, the vaccum hoses under the intake weren't cracked too bad, but had some small splits where they slide on the fittings, but I do have a slight problem.

Does anyone know the best way to bleed the coolant system?  I've been trying to bleed it for about 30 minutes and not having too much luck.  When I run the heater on full hot, it's blowing cold, so I know there's air in the system.  Is it better to run it with the cap off or should I put the cap on and let the system pressurized?  When I leave the cap off, the temperature doesn't get too hot, but it just pumps coolant out of the overflow.  When I cap it, it begins to overheat and I shut it off.

Any advice?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JP 91iS on October 04, 2008, 06:49:23 PM
Quote from: 91 318is;57872
Does anyone know the best way to bleed the coolant system?  I've been trying to bleed it for about 30 minutes and not having too much luck.  When I run the heater on full hot, it's blowing cold, so I know there's air in the system.  Is it better to run it with the cap off or should I put the cap on and let the system pressurized?  When I leave the cap off, the temperature doesn't get too hot, but it just pumps coolant out of the overflow.  When I cap it, it begins to overheat and I shut it off.

Any advice?


http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6597
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: EN318isPDX on October 21, 2008, 03:41:16 PM
need to sticky this still
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: kvin112 on October 29, 2008, 12:33:08 PM
I'm doing the same project with removing the manifold and replacing the all the hoses ($200.00 dumped at the dealer). As well as the famous ICV issue. There was a large amount of calcium deposits on hoses.  Is that normal for the coolant hoses? As far as I know this car was very well taken care of.  Also, I wanted to know if you ran into any problems with putting the new hoses back together. That will probably kill me putting everything back. Any suggestions?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JP 91iS on October 29, 2008, 02:27:25 PM
Quote from: kvin112;59717
I'm doing the same project with removing the manifold and replacing the all the hoses ($200.00 dumped at the dealer). As well as the famous ICV issue. There was a large amount of calcium deposits on hoses.  Is that normal for the coolant hoses? As far as I know this car was very well taken care of.  Also, I wanted to know if you ran into any problems with putting the new hoses back together. That will probably kill me putting everything back. Any suggestions?

I wouldn't expect an abnormal amount of deposits unless tap water or low quality coolant/wrong coolant was used.  Could also be from waiting too long between changing the fluid.

What kinds of problems are you expecting?  You should be deleting the unnecessary hoses to the Throttle Body heater.  If you need images for reference you can find them at realoem.com.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Birdman16 on November 20, 2008, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: thebigbadyeti;25636
While your cleaning everything up...clean up that motor as well :).... lol...


second the motion!!! Get that thing tidy before putting it back together.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Isamemon on December 24, 2008, 08:35:12 PM
great thread. Ill be pulling my 91's head off this weekend, and Ill be adding all of this to the job
I have not been into it yet so Ill also get the plastic water pipe, this old, dont need to crack it a year form now
thanks
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: naika on January 05, 2009, 04:03:36 AM
Happy I found this just when i was working on replacing all the gaskets on my M42, it is much cleaner even though I'm not done ( waiting for parts).
Thanks
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Duct_Taper on February 25, 2009, 09:59:26 AM
Bringing up an old thread again... but has anyone in a cold climate (northern USA, or Canada) done this mod successfully?  I'd like to do it but I'm concerned about the effects for cold weather driving.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Cobra Jet on February 27, 2009, 08:29:26 AM
My M42 has the entire "hose delete" mod and it's been driven in temps as low as 10* here in NJ over this past winter - no issues whatsoever....  It starts, idles and drives perfectly fine in cold or warm weather.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: xwill112x on February 27, 2009, 09:09:49 AM
Quote from: Cobra Jet;67318
My M42 has the entire "hose delete" mod and it's been driven in temps as low as 10* here in NJ over this past winter - no issues whatsoever....  It starts, idles and drives perfectly fine in cold or warm weather.


+1.

mine runs better in cool weather ;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wizard on March 01, 2009, 10:09:33 PM
I was living in Florida when I did the mod...I have now been in Pennsylvania since the end of January and have not noticed any ill effects. Have had some pretty cold days here..
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: irish79 on March 07, 2009, 07:33:55 PM
hey there,

i have to sort out the air intake housing on my 90 is, what changes did you apply to the hose's to minamise and relocate them. and also why have you a breather filter on there?

mark
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JP 91iS on March 09, 2009, 11:42:09 AM
Quote from: irish79;67877
hey there,

i have to sort out the air intake housing on my 90 is, what changes did you apply to the hose's to minamise and relocate them. and also why have you a breather filter on there?

mark

The modifications to the hoses are covered in this thread and here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621).  You can also see some pics at the link in my sig.

The breather filter is acting as an oil catch can to keep the oil residue and sludge build up out of the throttle body and intake manifold.  You may not have this problem as bad as others - it all depends on how worn your engine internals are.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Royalratch on April 09, 2009, 08:11:51 AM
Just what I was looking for! My coolant and Vac tubes are all crappy like so. Doing timing gear, water pump, thermostat and radiator so good time to deal with this too.

Respect!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Asserti on April 12, 2009, 04:50:45 AM
Quote from: tjts1;26916
The plate was a bandaid BMW added after designing the whole engine in order to pass start up emissions in the US. Take a close look at this BMW publicity shots from when the engine was first intruduced. No plate.
(http://www.mwerks.com/gallery/albums//BMW/3-Series/3%20Series%20(E30)/3er%20Coupe%20and%20Sedan/002.jpg)

I have put about 500 miles on the car without the plate and I'm getting 27mpg.


My engine looks exactly the same as the engine on the picture. I do have a throttle body heater, but it's very small and underneath the throttle body



(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/g/v/10.png)

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF91&mospid=47256&btnr=13_0309&hg=13&fg=15
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Asserti on April 12, 2009, 05:42:58 AM
I want this picture in this thread too!!

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)

just spent too much time on searching it
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Bmw02er on April 15, 2009, 01:55:02 AM
Quote from: Asserti;69934
I want this picture in this thread too!!

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)

just spent too much time on searching it


Asserti do you have a larger image of this. Also a parts list perhaps? Recently bought a '90 318is and doing some neglected maintenance. My idle is crap and I *suspect* it are the shot hoses. So far I figured out 7 required hoses for oil ventilation and the ICV. I haven't even started with coolant hoses yet.

http://de.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-doors/Europe/318is-M42/LHD/M/1990/april/browse/engine/cooling_system_water_hoses/
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Asserti on April 17, 2009, 09:35:12 AM
check out http://www.realoem.com. There you can find the images, bigger, but seperated, and with the part numbers attached.

grtz
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: parker575 on May 04, 2009, 02:23:14 PM
Just did this all Friday afternoon. Slow but certain success. The car idles perfect. It actually starts when hot with the AC on now! And I might actually pass emissions this year by more than just one number.

Wasn't too bad. I kept the coolant running through the throttle body and replaced all lines with as OEM as I could get. I made one hose between the throttle body and the cooling plate, but that was all. The one kicker was the 4-port one to the front of the car has changed since it was in my car. It is now in three pieces where mine was just one vacuum line to the throttle body. I learned this upon getting home and digging into the intake. This prompted a trip to the hardware store to fashion my own replacements. They're working great!

Thanks for all the diagrams, couldn't have done it without.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: E30technik on May 16, 2009, 01:07:36 AM
Quote from: Wise Old Dog;36893
Removing the heater plate allows you to do a custom re-plumb and eliminate the clutter underneath. But not entirely. You still need 3 hoses, one from the ICV to the intake boot, one from the valve cover to the throttle body, and one that connects the plastic water outlet to the nipple on the head.


Could somebody tell me what size hoses I need and what kind of hoses I need to get? Thanks guys.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Blip Bavarian on June 03, 2009, 10:43:04 AM
I have taken my manifolds off, and am trying to simplify my hose situation.  I want to basically do the same thing you did.  

which heater hose is this that you have in the box?  where does it connect?
Quote from: tjts1;25428

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/493160060_39f037cba2_o.jpg)


i have been following this diagram to try and simplify
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/d/g/6.png)

it looks like the  1 ft of 5/8" heater hose that you used replaces hoses 11 and 10.  

I cant figure out what the heater hose in your box is.  Is it one of the hoses in this diagram?  what else should i replace while i have the manifold off?  All help is much appreciated.  Thanks.:)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 03, 2009, 12:26:11 PM
Its #4 in the diagram. Attaches to the pipe on the side of the bock on one end and the other end at lower corner of the radiator. I had a hell of a time trying to install it. The hose wasn't flared out enough at the radiator end.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Blip Bavarian on June 03, 2009, 02:05:09 PM
Quote from: tjts1;72955
Its #4 in the diagram. Attaches to the pipe on the side of the bock on one end and the other end at lower corner of the radiator. I had a hell of a time trying to install it. The hose wasn't flared out enough at the radiator end.


so #4 is the only hose that you replaced with an OEM hose.  is there another option for #4 that you think may work better?  Im trying to order my parts at the same time.

THe other OEM piece that has been mentioned is the outlet and o-ring at the coolant line.  I guess its #12.  

I am noob to all of this, and would like to do as much maintinance as possibe while i have the manifold off.  Is there is anything else you suggest i do while i have it opened up?  Thanks.

Im thinking that if i am going to do injectors, now would be the time.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 03, 2009, 08:38:03 PM
I really didn't know much about this car when I did that project either. I'm pretty sure you could use a generic piece of hose for that thing. The problem is the hose is skinny at one end and thick at the other but the replacement I bought skinny at both ends. So in the end even a direct replacement hose will end up requiring a custom solution. I got mine from an online vendor but maybe the dealer part has a better fit. I don't know.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teh Phil on June 29, 2009, 04:15:41 PM
tjts1, can you update the first post? I’ve been scouring this thread and the board to finish this project, and I think one post in the beginning would be a lot easier to read! This is my own summary of what other members have said and my own experience. And by the way, a thousand thanks to all of you! I couldn’t have done this without all of your help.

Parts you will need:

•   Plastic Coolant Pipe from Block (Part # 11531714738) (Diagram Link (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1154&hg=11&fg=10&hl=4))
*NOTE: Make sure this is OEM! Aftermarket pipes have been found to leak, as noted here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7574)*
•   O-Ring for Pipe (Part # 11531709157)
•   Throttle Body Gasket (Part # 13541743261) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0309&hg=13&fg=15))
•   Upper – Lower Intake Gasket (Part # 11611717761) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_0953&hg=11&fg=40))
•   Lower Intake – Block Gasket (Part # 11611734684) (Diagram (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_0953&hg=11&fg=40))
•   BMW Antifreeze (Part # 82141467704)
Or whatever brand you choose, of course.
•   5/8” Coolant Hose
•   5/16” Fuel Hose (Make sure it is fuel INJECTION hose, not fuel hose for a carb)
•   19/32” Vacuum Hose
I found all three hoses at Advance.
*NOTE: DO NOT use fuel hose for vacuum hose or vice versa. If improper lines are used they could expand or collapse.*

Under the manifold, as pictured in this thread, there is a mess of hoses.
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Mess.jpg)
In addition, you get rid of the throttle body heating plate, which as many have said, is of no use. Most of the hoses are unnecessary, and we’re getting rid of them as well as rerouting the vacuum lines to make future maintenance easier, and limit the number of possible leak points. Most importantly, you’re getting rid of the two junctions. You’re replacing the plastic coolant pipe because it’s relatively cheap, and they tend to crack over time on M42s. In the end you’ll have three hoses:
•   One vacuum hose from the valve cover to the throttle body
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/VC-TB.jpg)
•   One vacuum hose from the idle control valve to the intake elbow
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Elb-ICV.jpg)
(the other side of the idle control valve will go to the same place, but you can extend the hose if you’d like to make the ICV easier to access.)
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/I-ICV.jpg)
•   One coolant hose from the coolant pipe’s outlet to the nipple on the head. This is a personal preference; some have simply plugged the two holes. Read more here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621).
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Coolant.jpg)
These two hoses are NOT the same size. Even though I trust the results found here, I'm still wary of my head cracking, so I thought I would connect the two just to be safe. A local plumbing supply store rigged this up for me, and I haven't had any leaks. It's not pretty, but it works.
(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/Junction.jpg)
I'll report back in a few months, but it seems fine. Just in case I do find a leak, I ran this just outside of the lower intake, so I can plug the lines with some bolts if necessary.
When you’re done, don’t forget to bleed the cooling system! Here’s how (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6597).

Other things to think about while you’re down there…
•   Are the two rubber coolant hoses that meet the plastic pipe we’re replacing in good shape? (#s 4 and 22 here (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35))
•   Do you want to install a catch can? It’s really not necessary if you use synthetic oil, but some have put one in line between the valve cover and the throttle body.
•   Is it time to upgrade your injectors? Many have upgraded to Ford’s 4 pistil injectors (as opposed to our 1 jet) for better atomization of fuel. Read more here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233).
•   If you don’t want to change out your injectors, at least give them a clean! Pelican Parts explains how (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm).
•   The rubber hoses going into the hard lines on the lower intake. You have to buy some short pieces that lead from the hard lines to the fuel rail, so you might as well do a little preventative maintenance and buy a few feet. (#s 15 and 16 here (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0308&hg=13&fg=15))
•   Clean out your AFM sensor!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 318is on June 30, 2009, 04:03:56 PM
***EDIT: Nevermind guys sorry about the post I figured it out.

Hey,

So i'm going to do this on my 91 318is soon, and just have a few questions to clarify the 3 hoses that aren't oem.

On the 'parts you will need list' list on the last post by teh Phil, it says you need a 5/8" coolant hose, a 5/16" fuel hose, and a 19/32" vacuum hose.

I was kind of confused because you only listed one vacuum hose on the parts needed list, but your pics show the need for 2 vacuum hoses (one from the ICV to the intake elbow, and one from the valve cover to the throttle body).

I guess what i'm trying to specifically ask is:
What size is the vacuum hose from the valve cover to the throttle body?
What size is the vacuum hose from the ICV to the intake elbow?
Is the 5/8" coolant hose on the parts needed list for the coolant pipe's outlet to the nipple on the head?
And what is the 5/16" fuel hose for? I didn't see any reference to it in the pics.

Sorry if some of the questions are kind of obvious, but i'm pretty new to all of this.

Thanks!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 30, 2009, 04:26:25 PM
Quote from: teh Phil;74524
All sorts of awesome...
Excellent write up. I updated the first post. If you need to make any changes PM me and I'll update the first post.
cheers
Justin
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teh Phil on June 30, 2009, 07:13:41 PM
Cool, glad you figured this out, but I'll reply just for clarity:

Quote from: 318is;74580
What size is the vacuum hose from the valve cover to the throttle body?
What size is the vacuum hose from the ICV to the intake elbow?

The vacuum hoses are all the same size. Just buy a few feet and cut off sections.
Quote
Is the 5/8" coolant hose on the parts needed list for the coolant pipe's outlet to the nipple on the head?

Yes. I'll have to go back and find the size of the other coolant hose to the nipple on the block, but the 5/8" hose fits the plastic coolant pipe. Again, this is all irrelevant if you choose to plug the holes, unless you want to attach a short section, throw some bolts in to plug it and put a hose clamp around that.
Quote
And what is the 5/16" fuel hose for? I didn't see any reference to it in the pics.

The fuel lines go:
Hard line from tank -
Short rubber section by fuel filter in front of rear driver side tire -
Hard lines along the bottom of the car -
Approx 1.5-2' section from hard line ending behind front tire -
Approx 1' long section hard line -
2" section from hard lines to fuel rail

You will definitely need to replace the 2" section to the fuel rail (there are TWO of them), but I figured that I might as well replace the rubber on the other side of the hard lines while I'm down there.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bwawuz02 on July 14, 2009, 08:32:47 PM
Quote from: tjts1;25556
Now that all the hoses are out, you can see where the long coolant run begins on the side of the head between cyl 2 and 3, and ends at the coolant return pipe on the side of the block.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/495150433_e5fae4f1df_o.jpg)

The coolant bypass is made out of a 1 foot long piece of 5/8" heater hose.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)



from this it looks like you only used the 5/8" heater hose, simply sinching it down on the smaller sized nipple on the head via the hose clamp. is that correct?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on July 15, 2009, 12:59:08 AM
Yup. But if I had to do it again I would simply plug both ends. The circuit is not necesary for engine cooling.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: McCall on August 15, 2009, 12:48:59 PM
Great Thread!  I just joined the forum based on this thread alone.  I, too, will be performing much of this mod over the winter (gotz to finish the race season first)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: naika on August 17, 2009, 03:06:15 AM
I plugged both ends and no problem at all.
Title: Same Here
Post by: keflaman on August 17, 2009, 04:28:23 AM
Quote from: naika;76961
I plugged both ends and no problem at all.


I had no choice as the nipple on the block was severely corroded and I couldn't get a good seal with the hose. I ended up cutting the nipple flush with the block and then tapped and installed a plug.

Been running like that for a year or two.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: She loved E on September 22, 2009, 02:08:35 PM
I started work on this mofo yesterday... thanks a million tjts for starting this and teh Phil for the cliff's notes ;)

I'll post back when I've gone in so deep I don't know what I'm doing anymore. :)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: sports.racer on September 22, 2009, 10:04:18 PM
My mess under the intake is history!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: She loved E on September 26, 2009, 04:18:18 PM
Might want to append this PN to the original post (I ordered everything I need EXCEPT these :mad:):

(info from Pelican)
13-64-1-730-767-M213
x8
$1.25 each

You'll need 8 of them if you're going to pull and clean the injectors. They're $5.50 each at the dealer so don't even think about it!!!

Also, do you guys think I'm cool with this coolant hose setup?

(http://www.kylejochai.com/reflexgti/318is/IMG_0843-sm.jpg)
(http://www.kylejochai.com/reflexgti/318is/IMG_0842-sm.jpg)

I didn't like using a single 5/8" hose because the nipple on the head (kinky!) is smaller. So I used a leftover connector and piece of 5/8"->1/2(?)" hose from the mess. I *think* it'll be OK... everything is snug and the plastic connector and hose look to be in good shape.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Haraise on October 13, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
Can I end up with a system like this?

(http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/erinsalvino/6.png)

Also, any tips on what to use to cap the holes?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: dude8383 on October 13, 2009, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: Haraise;79853
Can I end up with a system like this?

(http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/erinsalvino/6.png)

Also, any tips on what to use to cap the holes?


i think you may loose hit entirely with that setup.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Haraise on October 13, 2009, 05:32:44 PM
I'm assuming by "hit" you mean "heat." It looks to me like I'm leaving the two hoses for the radiator, and two for the heater core. Am I missing anything?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 13, 2009, 06:31:12 PM
You can't cap both the small outlets on the plastic pipe. The one on the side of the pipe goes to the radiator. The one at the top you can cap. There are 3 hoses going to the radiator. I have no idea why. The whole cooling system on this engine is bat shit crazy.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: robweenerpi on October 17, 2009, 02:05:09 AM
Quote from: Duct_Taper;67192
Bringing up an old thread again... but has anyone in a cold climate (northern USA, or Canada) done this mod successfully?  I'd like to do it but I'm concerned about the effects for cold weather driving.

I had the throttle freeze on me regularly in Northern Maryland.  Driving to work in the morning typically.  Especially if it was wet from salt on the roads.  There was good grip but a lot of spray and a lot of cars on the road.  Driving at really high speed like 70-80 most of the time there was sufficient cold airflow to freeze up the throttle.  After long periods of steady open throttle the car would continue at speed when lifting the throttle or breathing the throttle for a downhill.  Generally you'd only have like 15% pedal input so you could just counter it with the brakes.  I suppose it would happen if you had 100% as well for long enough.  I'd generally just push in the clutch and rev the car a few times and it'd go away for awhile.  If it came back enough to be persistent I'd slow down and go down a gear.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: nigel on October 26, 2009, 07:22:21 PM
There's an easy way to make the hose size change from the coolant pipe to the head nipple: Cut a 3/4 inch piece of the smaller hose, stick it in the end of the bigger hose (with some rtv for good luck) and hoseclamp. No more plumbing store monsters from the deep.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 26, 2009, 07:27:39 PM
It seems like the easiest thing would be to cap both ends. Either way, a 5/8" hose has been reliable for over 2 years now.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on October 29, 2009, 12:21:28 PM
I see fuel hose listed in the parts.  What is that for?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: She loved E on October 30, 2009, 03:09:43 PM
The two short fuel hoses on the fuel rail.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on October 30, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
Just to replace them? Or do they need to be lengthened?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 30, 2009, 04:11:50 PM
Its just a good times to replace these while you're in there. They are hard to access otherwise.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/tjts2/bmw/replace.jpg?t=1256940263)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Wizard on October 31, 2009, 07:02:50 AM
Quote from: tjts1;80659
Its just a good times to replace these while you're in there. They are hard to access otherwise.

And do not use standard fuel line for these... You must use the high pressure type fuel injection hose.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on November 01, 2009, 09:25:20 AM
Completed the task yesterday.

The only high-temp hose they had was red, but it looks decent. Ill post a pic later (on iPhone now).

I ended up using the stock hose off of the valve cover gasket and mating it to a piece of 5/8" hose with a stock coupler from the "mess." The 5/8" hose is he perfect size for connecting to the throttle body. Also, 1/2" is indeed the perfect size for the ICV to intake boot, but it takes a little muscle and lube to get it on the ICV.

The 5/8" is indeed a little to big for the coolant outlet on the head, but I was able to shim it with a piece of thin rubber tubing, and secure it with a hose clamp. It's not going anywhere.

I also replaced my injectors and the two rubber fuel lines.

After the new injectors and new gaskets, the car absolutley purrs now. I have a video that I'll try an post up too.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on November 01, 2009, 02:43:08 PM
As promised:

mods = Mark D chip, fan delete, m20 flywheel, COP (you can see my skid plate too)

(http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/7/5/2/5/img_0206.jpg)
(http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/7/5/2/5/img_0205.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: quinn11m20 on November 01, 2009, 02:47:35 PM
Hey Ken is that red silicone hose? Or a garden hose?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on November 01, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
It's high temp heater hose.  The red is a thermal protective layer on the hose.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: quinn11m20 on November 01, 2009, 03:53:17 PM
Ok. Looks good. Thanks.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johnwoo on November 02, 2009, 02:02:32 AM
Quote from: KenCopperwheat;80731
Completed the task yesterday.

The only high-temp hose they had was red, but it looks decent. Ill post a pic later (on iPhone now).

I ended up using the stock hose off of the valve cover gasket and mating it to a piece of 5/8" hose with a stock coupler from the "mess." The 5/8" hose is he perfect size for connecting to the throttle body. Also, 1/2" is indeed the perfect size for the ICV to intake boot, but it takes a little muscle and lube to get it on the ICV.

The 5/8" is indeed a little to big for the coolant outlet on the head, but I was able to shim it with a piece of thin rubber tubing, and secure it with a hose clamp. It's not going anywhere.

I also replaced my injectors and the two rubber fuel lines.

After the new injectors and new gaskets, the car absolutley purrs now. I have a video that I'll try an post up too.


do you mind sharing where you purchased on your parts?  i've having trouble collecting the 5/8" coolant hose and the high temp hose.  i went to advacne and all they had was the fuel hose.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: quinn11m20 on November 02, 2009, 04:26:26 AM
Oh. By the way I removed a lot of the underside hose as well. Cleaned it up really.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 09, 2009, 06:12:16 AM
Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm going to redo the mess under the intake because the coolant pipe is leaking. This time around I'm going to plug both the block and the coolant pipe instead of using heater hose to connect them. I have read through this thread numerous times and was wondering what people are using to plug these ports? I've seen plastic caps and heard of people using bolts, but didn't know which way to go with this. Thanks in advance.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AcSchnitzer318is on November 09, 2009, 08:54:41 AM
^I used silicon rubber caps from the Help! section of a FLAPS.  Everyone has them.  Only problem with this route is you might have to replace them once every couple of years because they will break down.  I had one leak on me after about 12 months.  @ $2.50 I'll deal with it.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 09, 2009, 09:11:16 AM
Did you use any type of silicone sealant along with hose clamps to make sure it was seated and sealed properly?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 10, 2009, 07:55:52 AM
Sorry for the multiple posts, but the first time I did this I only removed the upper intake. To remove the lower intake im assuming that I need to take the fuel rail off? I also want to replace the two small pieces of fuel hose. Will i need to depressurize the fuel system to take off the lower manifold, or can I leave the rail/injectors on the lower intake manifold? I really just want to get enough access to clean the lower manifold and replace the plastic coolant pipe. Thanks

Also I already drained the coolant because of the leak. If I do need to depressurize the fuel system I was planning on pulling the fuse and letting it die out. This may seem stupid but do I need to add water/coolant for the short amount time the car will be running to depressurize the fuel system?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 10, 2009, 08:04:20 AM
I'd leave the injectors & rail on the manifold.  Definitely depressurize the fuel system...and I'd replace those PITA hose clamps with real FI clamps & all the gaskets too.  I'd also avoid silicone in the system if possible.  It's so convenient but I'd worry about it plugging up the radiator.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 10, 2009, 08:09:28 AM
Dave you answered my first question, but what about the stupid second question about adding some water/coolant. Thanks Dave
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 10, 2009, 08:20:13 AM
Nah, only if you're running the car for more than five minutes.  That should be well before the engine overheats.  I'd guess it'll warp the head running for 20-30 minutes with no coolant.

Top fuel dragsters have their coolant passages filled with a special concrete...if they can get away with a 1/4 miles you'll have no trouble.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 10, 2009, 08:30:08 AM
Thanks Dave. I managed to pick up the OEM coolant pipe and o ring from the dealer and the price wasnt too bad at 30 bucks. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to plug the coolant pipe and the block. Hopefully the weather/temp cooperate this weekend because I'm trying to get this done before it gets real cold.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on November 13, 2009, 06:31:49 AM
Does anyone know what the piece/hose is that connects to the lower intake? Its rock solid and I had a bitch of a time getting it off. I think it connects to the brake booster(the big black round thingy). I may have damaged the end from ripping off the damn clamp. I couldn't find it on real oem. Should I just put a dab of silicon and a new hose clamp on? Only the end is damaged and I don't think its ripped all the way through. Just wondering what the hell it does. Thanks

Edit: I looked on pelican parts and they explained it. Guess it uses the vacuum to help with the master cylinder.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on November 13, 2009, 09:00:55 AM
Quote from: johnwoo;80768
do you mind sharing where you purchased on your parts?  i've having trouble collecting the 5/8" coolant hose and the high temp hose.  i went to advacne and all they had was the fuel hose.


didn't see this until now. I just went to my local autoparts store (Knect's I think it was).  I used "high temp heater hose" for all of it. It's very thick and rigid.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: KenC on November 13, 2009, 09:03:59 AM
Just FYI, this is a great "while you're in there" opportunity to replace your injectors or at least get new O-Rings.
Title: What my mess looked like
Post by: tntempest on November 18, 2009, 07:02:40 PM
Here are some pics under my intake, notice how clean intake ports are, how dirty the injectors, and the lower ICV hose.  There were many more vac leaks.  My car ran well but I just figured this needed to be done with 193000.  I am adding new injectors and painting the upper intake with black crinkle.  I have already painted the valve cover.
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee284/tntempest/1118091917.jpg)(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee284/tntempest/1118091919.jpg)(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee284/tntempest/1118091916.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 92BMW318is on December 05, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
i recently took of my intake manifold to replace my starter, i had to remove this mess of wires (it looked like a octopus of female and male plug ins) i was wondering if you had any idea how to get a picture diagram on how and what wires go where,
if not thanks anyways, pictures were very informative,  its a 318is 92, if that helps
what kinda engine do you have in yours?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teh Phil on December 05, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
I haven't looked at this manual, but it may be of help:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7748

If not, check out the wiring diagrams in the Bentley:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2282
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Gray S. on December 21, 2009, 07:26:03 AM
Where are you all getting the 19/32" vacuum hose?  I went to Advance, Autozone, and Carquest and no one had even seen 19/32" before.  Is there a different size I can use instead?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teh Phil on December 26, 2009, 11:31:20 PM
Quote from: Gray S.;83341
Where are you all getting the 19/32" vacuum hose?  I went to Advance, Autozone, and Carquest and no one had even seen 19/32" before.  Is there a different size I can use instead?


I just brought a piece of each hose i needed and found the closest size I could. They were pretty nice, they let me sift through all of the bulk hoses they had in the back.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Chalino on January 07, 2010, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: PeterGOwUnsene;84207
How old are you? 13
What is your height? 58
What is your weight?125
How would you describe your build? kind of skinny with big shoulders
Do you play box, field, or both? field
What position do you play? D
How long have you been playing lacrosse for? 3
What made you start playing lacrosse? the bore of baseball and the sheer awesomeness
What region are you from Canada, Long Island, New Jersey? southwest CT right by L.I. sound

What helmet do you use? CPX
What shoulder pads do you use? spartan
What arm pads do you use? some warriors they dont make now
What gloves do you use? g-forces
Goalies, what chest protector do you use?
Do you wear rib pads? no
Do you wear a cup? on occasion

How many heads do you have? 2
How many shafts do you have? 3
What is your game stick head/shaft? stiffi/krypto
What is your backup stick head/shaft? vapor/ 803
Do you use mesh, traditional, or a custom? mesh
If you use mesh, describe what kind of mesh is it? hard mesh
How is it strung high, low, channel, bag? 10d hard, low-mid, nice channel, 2 straight
If you use a traditional or a custom, can you describe it?
Do you string your own heads? yes
If so, how long have you been stringing your own heads? since march
Do you dye your heads? no
If yes, how would you describe the dye?
Do you tape your shaft? yes
If yes, how would you describe the tape job? a little under the butt end to keep it on

Do you play any other sports? ya
If yes, which sports and what position do you play in those sports? football OL, basketball idk its rec nothing serious
What do you do in the off-season to help your lacrosse game? wallball, running, and other sports
Do you go to any camps during the summer? navy lax camp and army camp. trying out for a summer team next year.
Here is a sample of a website I developed for canadian pay day loan (http://www.paydaytown.com)


lol
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on January 22, 2010, 09:26:26 PM
I was looking through this thread at some of the ways people were trying to make some sort of a filter or catch cup for the crankcase vent hose.  I'm just curious.... would it be possible to rig up an M54 crankcase vent valve to do the job?  (I guess officially its called a pressure regulating valve)  At the dealership we call it a crankcase vent valve.

If you connected the valve cover connection to the intake on the vent valve.... connected the air output of the vent valve to your throttle body, and put the oil drain hose in a small container... wouldn't that basically remove the oil from your crankcase vapors and help maintain a cleaner intake system?  Someone please correct me if I'm not understanding this crankcase venting system properly. :)

Only thing I'm not too sure on is the vacuum connection on the valve.  Earlier cars have a vacuum line connected, later cars have it capped off.  I'm not sure exactly what it controls inside the valve.

(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/Car%20stuff/crankvent.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bimmerd00d on January 22, 2010, 11:47:57 PM
^^^^  So this is where i'm supposed to connect the Valve Cover > Throttle Body vacuum hose?  I end up with an extra hole in my intake boot then.  Do i cap that off or the one pictured above?

EDIT:  I just said screw it and plugged it up. She purrs like a kitten now. Too late to try to bleed the coolig system, so I'll button it all up tomorrow. Thanks for the awesome info throughout the thread.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on January 23, 2010, 07:21:45 AM
The picture I posted up there is a theoretical retrofit mod I came up with.  (Using E30 and E46 parts)  I dont even know if it would work or not.  From what I can tell looking at the real oem diagrams for the M42, the hose from the valve cover eventually connects to the throttle body on the bottom.  It looks like it goes through a little junction with coolant running through it first though.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on January 23, 2010, 09:06:28 AM
I'll bet that 2nd vac port is for differential vacuum.  It looks like it closes off the oil separator from the booster diaphragm, if my guess is right.  That'd be the ticket for small displacement engines.  

There are times that you wouldn't want that valve open, like when low vacuum at high rpm would permit the high-pressure crankcase to force oil past the booster and into the intake manifold.

That oil separator is a good idea though...but the BMW part might be too overcomplicated.  I heard they had some troubles in northern climates with humidity freezing them open on newer BMWs, figured that was at least partially right.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on January 23, 2010, 05:40:02 PM
There are insulated units on some of the cars for that very problem.  Seemed like the X5s specifically had fully insulated valves and hoses.  

You're probably right about the vacuum port.  There is a diaphragm in the top half of the valve if you take it apart.


I was told today that the vacuum line off that E46 vent valve is a supply line for some regulator, so it may not actually be a control line.  Still not totally sure.  After cleaning the gunk out of my intake ports, I'm starting to reconsider some sort of oil separator!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 12, 2010, 07:57:59 PM
so, im trying to sort through all the info in this thread.

I am wanting to do this, but i am confused because of all the different things i am reading.

I want to remove the heater plate along with doing this. But i do not think i want to plug the nipple on the block.

What hoses do i need to purchase? the original posts says 1 vac hose, and then goes on in the pictures to say you need two.

Just wondering how many vac hoses i will need, heater hoses.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: teh Phil on February 15, 2010, 06:56:39 PM
Quote from: Rafiki;87373
so, im trying to sort through all the info in this thread.

I am wanting to do this, but i am confused because of all the different things i am reading.

I want to remove the heater plate along with doing this. But i do not think i want to plug the nipple on the block.

What hoses do i need to purchase? the original posts says 1 vac hose, and then goes on in the pictures to say you need two.

Just wondering how many vac hoses i will need, heater hoses.


I only specified the diameter, not the number of hoses needed. I bought a foot or two of bulk hose and cut off the pieces as I needed them. If you are deleting the heater plate but keeping the nipple on the block then the only coolant tubing you would need would be from the coolant pipe to the nipple on the block. All of the other tubing would be vacuum hose (with the exception of the new fuel injector hose for the injectors, of course).
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 16, 2010, 11:13:52 AM
I got a question for you guys

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CWmk5/100_0234.jpg)

these two both fit in both places. the one on the block, and into the filter canister. anyone know which one goes where

one is wrapped up with the other electrical connector and one is alone
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on February 16, 2010, 10:31:07 PM
One is the oil pressure sender, the other is the coolant temp gauge wire.  They'll both plug into each other's connectors.  I'd plug them in and turn your key on, if your oil pressure light comes on (maybe a bit dimmer than normal though) then I'd say you have them swapped.  

When I had my intake apart I had them swapped going back together.  I was scared when I saw the oil temp warning indicator on.. and when my temperature didn't seem to go up.  I was able to reach back in and swap the two connectors with the intake etc installed.

Oh and nitrile gloves FTW!  I cant stand to work on a car without gloves on anymore. :)

Oh and I think the one that's attached to the other wire is the one that goes to the oil filter housing.  The one going solo goes to the block I think.  You'll know if you get them wrong though!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 17, 2010, 03:33:50 PM
started mine today. what a fucking mess my intakes are. 20yrs worth of oil and gunky shit built up in the them. i havnt had a intake off a m42 in so long i forgot what a pain in the nuts they are lol upper intake is in the parts wash soaking and i still need to get the lower intake off. all my hoses under the intake were leaking and rotten.  injectors and adjustable fpr are going in as well. gotta order gaskets and shit this week.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 17, 2010, 04:53:39 PM
wow is that coolant pipe realy $238 fucking dollars?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on February 17, 2010, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: 4banger;87675
wow is that coolant pipe realy $238 fucking dollars?

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/BMW/318i/EZ/Cooling_Hose_Connector/1991/Base/4_Cyl_1-dot-8L/W0133-1662171.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jorgeconrico on February 17, 2010, 06:00:36 PM
Mine was 30 bucks from the dealership.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 17, 2010, 06:03:56 PM
pelican has it listed as $238 thats why i asked.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on February 17, 2010, 06:42:32 PM
Pelican and bav auto are over priced and over hyped. The $15 pipe will work just as well.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 17, 2010, 06:47:10 PM
thanks. i need the pipe 5/8 heater hose and 19/32 vacuum hose and thats it? i didnt cut the fuel lines. they came right off the hard line. anything else i need besides the gaskets?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on February 17, 2010, 07:27:08 PM
Are you deleting the whole mess or repairing it to stock?  I put mine back to original with all new hoses and it seems great (although I'll probably regret it later).  Also, maybe replace your heater hoses while you're in there.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 17, 2010, 07:28:31 PM
deleting the mess and replacing all other heating and cooling system hoses.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Choking Hazard on February 17, 2010, 11:01:10 PM
$238.00!!  Pelican is not that overpriced.  Mine was $15.00.  Get the part no from real OEM and stick in the pelican search field
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 18, 2010, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: Choking Hazard;87699
$238.00!!  Pelican is not that overpriced.  Mine was $15.00.  Get the part no from real OEM and stick in the pelican search field


my error was i was looking at the m20 water pipe above the m42 pipe in the catalog. the m20 pipe is $238.25! http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=BMW&model=BE30§ion=WATpmp&page=5&bookmark=23&part_number=11-53-1-714-738-M200
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 18, 2010, 11:29:33 AM
i got the lower intake off today. some how i managed to rip the fuckin wire out of the sensor on oil tower so i gotta rewire that. found out that the vaccum line on my fpr was cracked damn near in 2 at the nipple. that cant be good for performance. the water pipe was broke off in the block. suprised it wasnt leaking. i think im gonna replace all the rubber under the hood with silicone.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on February 18, 2010, 06:34:20 PM
I was amazed at the difference in smooth running etc when I did the refresh.  The COP conversion may have helped too.  Either way my motor purrs like a sleeping lion.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Redpolack on February 24, 2010, 01:24:41 PM
no to long ego one of the crazy coolant pipe exploded so I did this set up too it works great for me
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 24, 2010, 02:39:02 PM
i got a quick question.

(http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/E30/Vacuum/VC-TB.jpg)

this says to go from the valve cover to the throttle body. but the hole that is circled on the throttle body/ intake elbow is plugged... it doesnt even go all the way through. is that normal?

mine did not have a nipple on it like pictures above. its a hole, but at the end of the hole(when looking from the inside, is plugged)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 24, 2010, 02:51:41 PM
wow, i got it. it literally goes to the throttle body. the picture threw me off.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 24, 2010, 03:01:02 PM
i lied, im still confused. Where does the hose from the valve cover go? straight to the throttle body? or does it go somewhere before it reaches the throttle body
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Chalino on February 24, 2010, 05:30:20 PM
Quote from: Rafiki;88315
i lied, im still confused. Where does the hose from the valve cover go? straight to the throttle body? or does it go somewhere before it reaches the throttle body


Straight to the throttle body; the nipple/connection is on the underside of the TB.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on February 24, 2010, 06:49:57 PM
In a pure stock setup doesn't it go through the little combo air / coolant junction hose on its way to the throttle body?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 25, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: Chalino;88335
Straight to the throttle body; the nipple/connection is on the underside of the TB.


the little metal nipple going down at a 45 degree angle? anyone know what size that is? its smaller than everything else

thanks
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on February 25, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
EDIT: never mind I was wrong.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: rennen on February 25, 2010, 08:21:12 PM
OK, Quick question... Hoping for a clear answer.

Where does the nipple on the bottom of the throttle body connect to? Is it capped or brought in to the Intake Hose?

Thanks
Sal
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Choking Hazard on February 26, 2010, 09:03:18 AM
We should all be doing this on one big workshop.  It looks like at least 3 or 4 folks are currently addressiung the "mess".  I am at the same decision point.  I thought:
1.  The smaller, angled nipple off the side of the TB connested to the vac diaphram (what does it do?) on the fuel rail.
2.  The large hose from the front of the valve cover connects to the black rubber bellows on between the TB and MAF.
3.  The large hose from ICV connects to the underside of the TB.

Does that sound right to people who have already done this?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: E30_3I8I on February 26, 2010, 09:19:58 AM
can we get more pictures on this? it sounds like i have the same thing as choking hazard
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Chalino on February 26, 2010, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: Choking Hazard;88445
We should all be doing this on one big workshop.  It looks like at least 3 or 4 folks are currently addressiung the "mess".  I am at the same decision point.  I thought:
1.  The smaller, angled nipple off the side of the TB connested to the vac diaphram (what does it do?) on the fuel rail.
2.  The large hose from the front of the valve cover connects to the black rubber bellows on between the TB and MAF.
3.  The large hose from ICV connects to the underside of the TB.

Does that sound right to people who have already done this?


Mine is different; the ICV line goes to the rubber bellow. The PCV line goes directly under the TB. The rubber below where you guys have a nipple to attach the PCV line is capped on mine.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 26, 2010, 11:21:58 AM
Haha looks like we are all suck on the same part.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Chalino on February 26, 2010, 11:25:17 AM
After further investigation, it looks like vehicles produced before 10/1991 have a TB without the nipple on the underside; see below:
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/g/v/10.png)

10/1991 and on vehicles have this one:
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/h/f/2.png)

It makes sense for the ones with the later TB to have the port on the rubber bellow capped off.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 26, 2010, 04:45:39 PM
haha nice investigation skills.. so we should still run a hose from valve cover to that nipple on the TB?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on February 26, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Weren't the throttle bodies changed as part of a service bulletin?  For the whole freezing issue?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 26, 2010, 09:58:13 PM
i didnt exactly look at the dates you posted earlier. my car was built 9/90. and has the nipple on the TB.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 26, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
my 4door has a build date of 10/90 and has the tb has the nipple.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 28, 2010, 05:57:56 PM
finally finished this today! car runs great. for some reason it developed a fuel leak right next to the fuel filter. and im not sure if it was because i messed with the injectors/fuel rail, and hoses up front...

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CWmk5/100_0358.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CWmk5/100_0356.jpg)



thanks for everyones help!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AtlBMW on February 28, 2010, 06:39:19 PM
You guys have both intrigued and discouraged me from doing this. My car has started to hunt for idle at times (mostly when it is warm) and I suspect a cracked hose.

Question, under the intake manifold there is a hose that is just laying there not connected to anything, like a drain or overflow or something. Seems odd for it to terminate there. Anyone know what I'm talking about and what it is?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rafiki on February 28, 2010, 06:41:44 PM
Quote from: AtlBMW;88574
You guys have both intrigued and discouraged me from doing this. My car has started to hunt for idle at times (mostly when it is warm) and I suspect a cracked hose.

Question, under the intake manifold there is a hose that is just laying there not connected to anything, like a drain or overflow or something. Seems odd for it to terminate there. Anyone know what I'm talking about and what it is?


i dont think there should be a hose just ending into nothing. snap a picture
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: thedguy on February 28, 2010, 09:59:15 PM
I'm gonna be doing this, hopefully come next weekend.  While ordering up parts I picked up the shorter studs for the TB... how exactly do I go about removing/installing the new ones?  doubling up the nuts and torquing it down that way?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: 4banger on February 28, 2010, 11:57:18 PM
Quote from: thedguy;88581
I'm gonna be doing this, hopefully come next weekend.  While ordering up parts I picked up the shorter studs for the TB... how exactly do I go about removing/installing the new ones?  doubling up the nuts and torquing it down that way?


double nutting it will work. my threads were mangled(i blame the patron haha) i wound up welding the nut to the stud and turning them out.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: AtlBMW on March 01, 2010, 01:49:07 PM
Hate to high jack this thread. My idle issue is minor at this point, only hunts on occasion and mostly when warm .
 
For some reason I am unable to upload the pic, error but no explanation.(privilege not earned?)
 
The hose in question is connected to the hose that runs into the intake boot.
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13396116@N00/4400461283/

(http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=27026&stc=1&d=1267531590)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Choking Hazard on March 04, 2010, 08:15:27 PM
If it really is open on the bottom, it needs to be plugged up.  I think it may have some kind of plug in there already.  That vac leak would be massive if it was fully popen.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Choking Hazard on March 04, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
FYI for folks pondering the vac hose setup-
I settled on this:
From ICV to port at bottom of rubber bellows.
From valve cover to large intake under the throttle body.
The port on the side of the TB is connected to the fuel tank vapor canistor.
From FPR on fuel rail to small fitting on bottom left side of TB
It seems to be OK like this.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johnwoo on March 11, 2010, 03:16:17 AM
hey guys putting my stuff back together any1 tell me where this vac hose goes that comes off of the fpr?

(http://i39.tinypic.com/35a3qkg.jpg)

i can't remember where exactly it goes
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: BlueBMW on March 11, 2010, 06:35:48 AM
Should be a fitting on the side of the throttle body that it connects to.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johnwoo on March 11, 2010, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: BlueBMW;89272
Should be a fitting on the side of the throttle body that it connects to.


have a diagram or pic?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ///m42 sport on March 11, 2010, 02:40:43 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is023-2.jpg)

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is027-1.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is029-1.jpg)

this one I believe.  From my writeup a while back haha

if you need other references
http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6334
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Chalino on March 11, 2010, 03:15:05 PM
That's the fpr line and it hooks up to the doenward-pointing nipple on the image above. Make sure you hook it up on the TB side before you bolt it up to the manifold; otherwise it will be a bitch to get to.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: McCall on March 13, 2010, 02:15:21 PM
Ok, quick question about the ICV.  Which way should the arrow (--->) indicating flow through the ICV go?  From the manifold to the rubber intake boot or from the intake boot to the manifold?  In looking at the pictures posted some have it reversed going one way and some have it the other.

Thanks!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johnwoo on March 14, 2010, 06:23:54 PM
ok guys i just this this mod...tried starting the car and the car goes to 1500 rpm then almost dies then comes back up to 1500 rpm.  did i do this mod right?  what is going on?  i also did the COP kit but im positive i have the order correct on the sparkplugs.  i needs whatever help i can get as i am so frustrated with messing with it.  

i have a hose coming form the vc to the throttle body nipple. and i have a hose from the icv to the intake boot.  did i do that correctly?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: johnwoo on March 16, 2010, 02:37:46 AM
Quote from: McCall;89388
Ok, quick question about the ICV.  Which way should the arrow (--->) indicating flow through the ICV go?  From the manifold to the rubber intake boot or from the intake boot to the manifold?  In looking at the pictures posted some have it reversed going one way and some have it the other.

Thanks!

on mine the arrow is pointing toward intake manifold.  hope that helps. best mod i have done to the car.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: McCall on March 16, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: johnwoo;89544
on mine the arrow is pointing toward intake manifold.  hope that helps. best mod i have done to the car.


Yes, thanks.  When I unplug it when it's in that orientation, it does make a difference in the idle so that must be the correct way.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: carguy101 on May 18, 2010, 12:06:39 PM
sub'd for to do list
looks like a great write up
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on June 12, 2010, 02:47:43 PM
Just ordered my parts from pelican, as well as a new thermostat, aux fan resistor, and bmw oil cap (SACRILEGE: mine says vw) and I plan to paint my intake and valve cover while I have parts coming off. Thanks for the write up!

Edit: Holding off while I gather a few more parts, I'd like to swap out my fuel injectors while I'm in there, as well as paint intake and valve cover.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on June 28, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Just did got it all done, had a nightmare time with the icv collapsing the hoses on me, and I am contemplating using metal tubing (conduit?) for the run to the icv from the intake boot. Anyone know of any reason I couldn't use electrical conduit? It is galvanized, will that cause any issues? The stiffest hose I could find still collapses significantly on me, although it's not completely closed, I would prefer it be completely unobstructed.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 28, 2010, 02:36:12 PM
Ask for 'reinforced' vacuum or oil line hose at the parts counter. See the red hose on mine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/tjts2/BMW%20for%20sale/DSC04462.jpg?t=1277753321
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on June 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: tjts1;93971
Ask for 'reinforced' vacuum or oil line hose at the parts counter. See the red hose on mine.
]


Yeah, I did, and they didn't really have anything that fit the bill. Got 3 kinds of hose, stiffest was some heater hose.  They had to order 5/16 injection hose!

Sorry if it's in the thread already, but reinforced hose solved your collapsing problem? Mine doesn't quite fold over, but gets pretty squished after a few minutes.  Thank you for inspiring everyone with your write up. Probably the best "piece of mind" mod you can do to the car.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on June 29, 2010, 01:48:25 AM
It worked for me. I had the same problem initially with the black hose you can see on the first page of this thread. It would collapse under vacuum. The red stuff they gave me the second time around I couldn't squeeze with my hands no matter how hard i tried. I was a little annoyed that it was red but I didn't have a choice but to use it. If they don't have vacuum hose ask for power steering hose or AC hose. That stuff should be plenty stiff.
good luck
Justin
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on June 29, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
Thanks. I might just grab enough red hose if I can find it to route all over the place. At least it will match.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: cncmastr on July 15, 2010, 08:40:31 PM
What causes that nasty stuff inside the intake manifold and in the ports?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on July 15, 2010, 08:58:23 PM
Quote from: cncmastr;94653
What causes that nasty stuff inside the intake manifold and in the ports?


The crankcase is vented into the intake essentially. Over time, and mostly with dino oil, it builds up. Several people here have used a catch can (essentially a filter) in-line to stop oil from reaching the intake, but word on the street is running synthetic will keep your runners clean.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JoeyBones on August 30, 2010, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: ///m42 sport;89301
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is023-2.jpg)

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is027-1.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is029-1.jpg)


http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6334


where does the port above and to the right of your finger go?  

Also, btw, this was much more confusing than I originally thought, I've bought a bunch of fittings and such from HD just to try and make it "right"  Would be way easier to just cap off the water ports at the head, but seemed like a bad idea to me...
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: cristimm on August 30, 2010, 11:46:10 AM
Quote from: tjts1;25428
For contrast: 2 clean ports in the foreground and 2 dirty in the background. The picture doesn't do it justice. That stuff is nasty, thick sticky and smelly. I will add a catch can to the new vent hose in order to separate the oil oil before it hits the intake.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/493180683_6b681ac4b2_o.jpg)

That reason for that is the crankcase vent hose coming from the head cover. It is not a good design to put that hose in one side of the intake. BMW corrected the problem on E36 M42 by placing that hose in the TB. That way every cylinder gets his share of the oil fumes.

If it fits I strongly recommend getting an E36 throttle body and relocate that hose. See the bottom port.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/m42sport/318is023-2.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: JoeyBones on September 03, 2010, 02:57:20 PM
can anyone help? i want to butto this up this weekend!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DPINEDA on September 14, 2010, 12:30:12 PM
Just wondering if anyone had problems finding the 19/32” Vacuum Hose?
I've gone to Pep Boys, Advanced..., and AutoZone. No one seems to carry it. I got every other piece I need for this project except the vacuum hose.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DPINEDA on September 18, 2010, 09:52:23 PM
I found the red reinforced hose at Napa. I will try to work on this project next week and post results. Tks
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: WeOnlyHaveLime on October 10, 2010, 06:58:24 PM
Okay, sorry if this has been covered, but I see some confusing info. In the OP, the second picture says "One vacuum hose from the valve cover to the throttle body". However, the picture has red circles at the valve cover and the intake elbow. What's right?

I also have the later throttle body (First pic in post #246). It has (from what I can tell) 3 vacuum lines going to it. One large, downward-pointing angled connector, a tiny connector (apparently for crank case ventilation) and the medium sized connector. What ends up connected to these and where from?

I'm still reading through threads on this, but I'm a bit confused at this point.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 11, 2010, 03:24:18 AM
Quote from: WeOnlyHaveLime;97298
Okay, sorry if this has been covered, but I see some confusing info. In the OP, the second picture says "One vacuum hose from the valve cover to the throttle body". However, the picture has red circles at the valve cover and the intake elbow. What's right?

You are correct. The valve cover connects to the intake elbow. You don't want to put your valve cover under vacuum from the TB. I will correct it.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: WeOnlyHaveLime on October 11, 2010, 06:33:50 AM
Quote from: tjts1;97303
You are correct. The valve cover connects to the intake elbow. You don't want to put your valve cover under vacuum from the TB. I will correct it.

OK, thanks!

That upper connector on my intake elbow (the one closest to the TB) has never had anything hooked up to it in my car. It might be sealed off. We'll see

EDIT: Last question: So what's going to be connected to the medium sized connector on the middle of the side of the throttle body (one w/ numbers printed on it in post 246). I have that throttle body, as does the car in the e30owners writeup. He connected the downward-pointing angled one to the valve cover, and the ICV to the intake elbow, but I can't figure out exactly where that middle one goes.

I'm sure it would make more sense if I had the car with me, but it's a ways away and I need to get all the info I can before I get back to it to tackle all this.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: rjcaptsean on October 19, 2010, 11:37:01 PM
If you look at this pic you will see that hose on the side of the TB going down to a valve with leads directly into the Carbon Canister on the fenderwell (next to the hose that says TDHY).

(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/Photo0296.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Gooch on October 20, 2010, 09:55:03 PM
Hey guys, I just did this over summer, and wrote the following up for a friend who is about to tackle "the mess under the intake".  I wish I took pictures to help document, but sadly I did not.

I got rid of the throttle body heating plates, so if you're looking to do the same, this is what you need to do:

11531714738 - coolant pipe from block
11531709157 - o-ring for pipe
13541743261 - throttle body gasket
11611717761 - upper/lower intake gasket
11611734684 - lower intake/block gasket
11531709052 - lower rad hose
64211386691 - coolant hose
13411721971 - vacuum hose from intake to ICV
13411721972 - vacuum hose from ICV to intake boot (lengthened with plastic/brass barbed fittings)
11151717858 - valve cover to throttle body (lengthend with plastic/brass barbed fittings)

Reuse a bunch of the plastic couplers, reducers, etc from the mess, you'll have a bunch extra from a lot of the stuff you'll be throwing away.

Brass barb fittings (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/barb.html)...I forget exactly what you need but with the intake off you'll be able to figure it out, you're gonna want a bunch of 1/2" splicers, a few reducers, and a 90 degree reducer, that you make out of a barb x fips and a 90 degree elbow barb x mips.  You want to use the reduceres and splicers to change between different size hoses, and also to space out like 5-6" of hose so that it doesn't collapse under vacuum.

Obviously you're going to need some  hose clamps, coolant (heater) hose, and vacuum hose for the brake booster if you mess yours up like I did.  I got the vacuum hose from rockauto (Gates part number 27230).

I did not replace the 2-3" of fuel lines between the hard lines because they looked alright.  But if you want to replace them, then you need to add some 5/16" fuel injection hose to your parts list.

Like I said before it's fairly obvious with the intake off what you need depending on what you want to do.

It is definitely way easier to use the OEM lines for the ICV to intake and valve cover to throttle body and extending them with the barbed fittings rather than using regular heater hose or vacuum hose because they have the correct bends.  Trust me I tried using regular hose and it didn't work very well.

Good luck!!!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: WeOnlyHaveLime on October 21, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Thanks so much for clearing that up, everybody. Nice post, Gooch. Helps a lot.

I'll be heading to check out the car tonight and getting an idea of what parts I need and want to replace while I'm in there. Already replaced the fuel lines a while back, as mine had begun to leak. I'll recommend that anybody replace those while they're in there as it's only a few bucks, takes only a couple minutes, and even though mine looked fine and didn't leak one day, they sprung a leak out of nowhere the next.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Brian318is on October 23, 2010, 01:40:25 PM
So after calling about 10 local auto part stores in my area, not one of them carries or can order 15/32" or 19/32" vacuum hose. I have been browsing google for about an hour and have not been able to find any 19/32" VACUUM hose..

Anyone know where to get this stuff online or know an alternative?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on October 25, 2010, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Brian318is;97823
So after calling about 10 local auto part stores in my area, not one of them carries or can order 15/32" or 19/32" vacuum hose. I have been browsing google for about an hour and have not been able to find any 19/32" VACUUM hose..

Anyone know where to get this stuff online or know an alternative?


You don't need those specific diameters. Just get the closest thing they have and squeeze the crap out of it. 3/8" and 1/2" hose are pretty damn common. Its rubber. It bends, it stretches, it punshes, it pleasures... ;)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on October 25, 2010, 01:45:20 PM
Order silicone instead.  There's a good selection at Summit, or on the ebay.  It'll outlast the car...likely even all the rest of us too.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ryanjv on November 01, 2010, 08:49:19 AM
just did this this weekend.  once i removed the manifold, most of the hoses underneath were mostly electrical tape.  no wonder i was having so many issues.  Also swapped out the coolant pipe while i was in there.  good thing i had one on me too; the nub that the hose goes onto had snapped when i removed the hoses so there was no putting a new hose on or capping it.  only real issue i had was i didn't have enough hose to go from the bottom of the ICV to the intake boot, so i had to use the plastic connectors (90 degree and straight connectors) to get me that little extra length.  I'll probably replace with a new hose soon.  I really like the red, but i can't find those red heater hoses anywhere

i've been on full synthetic for over a year now so luckily i didn't have to deal with that cruddy mess like in those pictures.  and if anyone was worried about not having the heating plates on the TB, we got some light snow and quite a bit of heavy frost this weekend way up in northern Ontario near Georgian bay, and i didn't have any issues.  Also got quite the frost here in Toronto this morning with no issues.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tonywonder on November 02, 2010, 12:27:34 AM
I also did this this past weekend. also changed my injectors to the 710s. was a little skeptical on the injectors but i think they are set properly into the intake manifold. i havent seen any leaks yet.

as for the throttle body vaccum hose issue. i have the TB with a direct hose connection on the bottom. i just plugged it off and connected the vaccum hose from the cover to the closest connection on the intake elbow. shouldnt be any issues right?

when i put everything back together it took a while for the car to start. i only had about a gallon of gas and i thought the fuel pump stopped working but it eventually started. anyone else have that happen?

i havent fully run the engine yet as i need to get some bmw spec coolant for her. but so far so good.

great writeup.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ryanjv on November 02, 2010, 11:14:38 AM
took me a few tries to start as well but i figured that was because i had disconnected the fuel rail from the fuel lines.  After the initial start up tries, everything went back to normal.

Has this happened to anybody?  I topped up my coolant after changing everything and in the last few days of driving it, the temperature gauge has been reading much lower.  the 2 hour drive from the sticks back into the city on sunday, the gauge never got past 1/4.  I averaged about 60mph throughout... for the first hour it stayed in the blue.  Today was a little better, after about half an hour the temperature left the blue before rising to 1/4.  although it was near zero today.

could this have anything to do with the swap?  Could it be the coolant i added? i just topped up with a couple litres of extended life pre-mixed.  The bottle said any make and model and doesn't mention any additives that they say are no-no's for bmw.  Could i just need a new thermostat?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: unt0uchable on November 03, 2010, 01:56:09 PM
I'm preparing to tackle my "mess" this weekend. I've sourced the parts I need at a local dealer, heater hose at AutoZone, and some 19/32" vacuum hose at Advance Auto Parts. This thread is awesome and gave me a lot of info on the change up. I have been reading it all morning/afternoon and it has ton's of info. I am also replacing my injector O-Rings while I'm in there, and the fuel line that are right there. My car has 278k miles tho so I am expecting to do some cleaning while I'm in there. I will post an update and some dirty pics when I get it done. Thanks again for this thread! It's priceless! :D
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 03, 2010, 02:39:14 PM
Do we really need 19/32" hose?  Isn't this just standard ~14mm O.D. vac hose?

I noted that the PO on my car used SAE (19/32?) fuel line and it's all cracked & nasty.  I removed it & installed OEM 8x13mm hose instead.  It's more expensive, but I frankly don't want to do it again.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 03, 2010, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: ryanjv;98234
took me a few tries to start as well but i figured that was because i had disconnected the fuel rail from the fuel lines.  After the initial start up tries, everything went back to normal.

Has this happened to anybody?  I topped up my coolant after changing everything and in the last few days of driving it, the temperature gauge has been reading much lower.  the 2 hour drive from the sticks back into the city on sunday, the gauge never got past 1/4.  I averaged about 60mph throughout... for the first hour it stayed in the blue.  Today was a little better, after about half an hour the temperature left the blue before rising to 1/4.  although it was near zero today.

could this have anything to do with the swap?  Could it be the coolant i added? i just topped up with a couple litres of extended life pre-mixed.  The bottle said any make and model and doesn't mention any additives that they say are no-no's for bmw.  Could i just need a new thermostat?

Did you bleed the system out really well?  This particular car has some troubles with air staying in the system.  I usually use Zerex G05 or BMW OEM coolant.  It's only about $12 a gallon by me.  Mix with distilled water only...
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ryanjv on November 03, 2010, 08:45:16 PM
geez america coolant is cheap.  the good stuff around here is double that.

I figured the lack of bleeding was what made the temperature shoot up.  I felt i was pretty thorough in the bleeding, would not doing it enough make it stay reading as cold?  Is it possible i just over filled it and put too much coolant in it?  I didn't have a pan on me to catch it all at the time so i didn't do a flush, maybe i'll flush the coolant this weekend and start fresh; it has been about a year since it was changed
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Brian318is on November 09, 2010, 10:06:12 AM
Alllllllllllright! I just got my car back together yesterday, pretty excited. It was down for 3 weeks thanks to some sheisty powder-coating guys. Took them 3 weeks to powdercoat my intake and valve-cover.

Anyway, I took care of the mess under the intake. I changed my 2-3" of fuel line, because it literally fell apart in my hands. I removed the heater plate, and capped the coolant lines between the head and the plastic coolant "junction." I doubled up on the caps, and will update if I experience any problems with them. Changed the vacuum lines, but I still need to get some stronger hoes for my ICV, I believe it is collapsing. Just need to tighten up a few things.

I also removed my fan, and I must say, it's quite nice. The engine stays up between shifts, and seems to transition more smoothly.

I changed my injectors to mustang, 4 pintle injectors. I installed new spark plugs, and converted to the COP kit from the turbo m42 guy.. installed very easily and is a very nice addition.

Just have to install my electric fan, and it'll be ready to ride.

Just want to say, I had to REALLY flush my coolant. I was hydrolocked at the head, and had too much air built up. I had to literally fill and re-fill my coolant lines and massage them in order to get all of the air out. It seems to be running fine right now, but just in case anyone encounters this same problem, try massaging passenger side coolant (when the engine is cold.) and filling with coolant, as this will circulate the coolant.

I'll post pics shortly!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: rjcaptsean on November 10, 2010, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: Brian318is;98517
Alllllllllllright! I just got my car back together yesterday, pretty excited. It was down for 3 weeks thanks to some sheisty powder-coating guys. Took them 3 weeks to powdercoat my intake and valve-cover.
I'll post pics shortly!


Definitely would like to see those.  I thought about powdercoating them the same laguna green as the exterior.  

As for the hose, one problem I ran into was the smog nazi failed my visual test due to the hose from the Intake -->ICV-->Intake Boot was heavy heater hose and not "fuel/emission" hose.  :(
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 10, 2010, 10:22:31 PM
You're joking!  PA is pretty strict about emissions tests, but we have no visual test yet.  I suspect if you're on good terms with your mechanic you could pass with no hoses at all.  It's a 20 year-old car after all!  Shouldn't seniors (I mean our cars, of course) get some more respect?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: mr.vang on November 30, 2010, 04:07:12 PM
anybody know how long of each hose should i get? just those hoses under the intake not the rad. hose or heater. i haven't take it apart yet because i need my car for school today. i'm going to grab it on the way to school today.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: mr.vang on November 30, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
anybody
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: mr.vang on December 03, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
got it.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: tjts1 on December 04, 2010, 11:16:18 AM
Just measure it.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: mrmckie on December 07, 2010, 09:02:35 AM
ok so what hose runs to the nipple under the TB?  at the moment i have nothing running to  that nipple and as a matter of fact there was never anything conected to it...

ICV > TB
or
ICV to Intake Elbow
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on December 07, 2010, 10:19:02 AM
I thought the large hose underneath came from the AFM.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bmwm42 on December 07, 2010, 11:15:19 AM
icv to intake elbow
hose coming from head to nipple under tb is how its connected in mine car
and my baby idles perfect
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Leo_328i on December 09, 2010, 09:19:40 AM
Awesome thread gents.

I'm in the process of installing some Ford Explorer 19lb 4-pintile injectors now on my E30 318iS and I forgot to order all of this stuff to clean up all the mess under the intake manifold.

I'm ditching the throttle body heater plate, its pretty ridiculous cooling system that runs through there!  Only one of my hose ends is split so will put it all back together using all the old parts cos I need the car back on the road ASAP as it's my daily driver.

Will order a fresh set of hoses and such when my E36 is back on the road!.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rich Dixon 91is on December 09, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
Is it necessary to order both intake gaskets, the upper and the lower, to do this heater plate and hose delete if I'm not going to do my injectors also? I've never had my intake off and I drive it daily so I am making sure I get my parts order square before I do the project. I've read the entire thread but I'm not sure I need to take off the lower intake if I'm not going to do my fuel injectors.

Update: Upon further reading I see that the plastic coolant pipe is inaccessible without removing the lower section of the intake. Question redacted.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: esager on January 04, 2011, 02:34:27 PM
Quick one for the group. I have completed my own "delete" and am putting it back together. However, I also replaced all the heater hoses going into the firewall. I saw another thread where the auxillary thermostat was simply deleted and I did the same but before I put everything back together again, I wanted to ask if this is a good idea or if I should cut the new hoses and splice in the aux. thermostat. It seems it was installed after the fact for a recall, so I think it will work fine without it, but just thought I would ask. Thanks.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DuHast on January 04, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
Just figured I'd add my own $.02

A buddy and I just did this mess under the intake fix on my car the other day.  The car hasn't run this good in a long time. I knew I had a misfire somewhere as the car wouldn't idle properly and was throwning a check engine light but only at idle.  I then started seeing coolant along the bottom of the block.  also eventually heard a loud hissing noise and the car wouldn't stay running unless it was fired up 2-3 times.

Every single hose under there was split at the ends, the coolant pipe was cracked and the coolant hose at the back of the block which routes to the heater pipes was split and dumping coolant.  I removed the TB Heater like we've all talked about and it runs like a dream.

Rich Dixon - I bought the exact parts list from Post #1 and I had everything I needed... I bought my parts from Pelican.  The O-Ring I have is extra as the plastic coolant pipe came with an O-Ring on it. Also, the fuel hose, you only need about 6 inches total to replace the two short lines that route through the lower intake.

Great writeups here, I'm very pleased with how it all turned out!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Rich Dixon 91is on January 16, 2011, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: tjts1;25702
Under the rubber elbow between the air meter to the throttle body where the crankcase ventilation normally ends.


I am having trouble understanding this. Is your path the same as this:

(http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1515&d=1189131683)

(http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1516&d=1189131741)

I think you're saying your valve cover goes to the air intake accordion and your ICV goes to the nipple under the throttle body, which would be different from these pics.
Also, can you clarify for me what size vacuum hose you're running from the valve cover and from the ICV?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: GunMetalGrey on February 22, 2011, 06:25:30 PM
Can someone re host the original post's images? I pulled my intake manifold off, and there is no way its getting back on the way the hoses are. And I figured now would be a great time to take care of all the stuff under there that is not needed. Thanks!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: GunMetalGrey on February 22, 2011, 06:35:48 PM
And I am in wisconsin, and the car would probably outside in the winter. Would deleting the heater plate be a poor move?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jscribble on February 23, 2011, 09:19:08 AM
Quote from: GunMetalGrey;101700
And I am in wisconsin, and the car would probably outside in the winter. Would deleting the heater plate be a poor move?


No. Do it, you will not regret it. Car has no issues in sub-zero weather in Janesville. Did mine last year.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: blalor on March 01, 2011, 05:11:07 PM
Does anyone have the missing pics from the first post?  I'd be happy to throw 'em up on Flickr or something…
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: aworthybrother on March 03, 2011, 12:02:43 PM
can somebody please verify which is better:
 
Capping off the water outlet or put a bypass hose?  Thanks
 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200262.jpg)
 
or this?
 
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: aworthybrother on March 03, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
To summarize the mess under the intake, could somebody please verify if this is correct?
 
The blue dots will be "capped off".
The blue lines will be the new hoses to replace the mess
 
(http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=6100)
(http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=6101)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: blalor on March 03, 2011, 09:55:36 PM
Quote from: aworthybrother;101979
To summarize the mess under the intake, could somebody please verify if this is correct?
 
The blue dots will be "capped off".
The blue lines will be the new hoses to replace the mess
 


That's what I understand to be correct.

Also, cross-posted from r3vlimited.com (http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=2429854#post2429854):

Quote from: blalor
I found a workable solution for the hose that goes from the plastic coolant junction on the block to the head:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5258/5496130184_e175d9edf0_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blalor/5496130184/)

It's hose #18 in this diagram, part number 11531714636:
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/c/m/6.png) (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35&hl=19)

It's a little bit short, but doesn't collapse or kink when connected.  The hose does push up against the coolant temp sensor connector, hence the loose zip-tie to keep the hose under it.

I replaced all of my hoses about a year ago, but decided to try this mod because I think I've got a vacuum leak.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: blalor on March 05, 2011, 04:16:58 PM
So, I de-messed the area under the intake.  No change in how the car runs (horrible cold start, lousy idle until warm), but I guess I didn't expect much, since I'd replaced all the hoses a year ago.  It is easier to get the upper intake and throttle body off without that stupid coolant line, however.

I ended up putting the heater plate back on.  My intake boot is stiff with age (and now partially torn) and I couldn't get the boot to line up correctly with the MAF box and the throttle body; I need to space the throttle body back out from the intake.  I'm going to order a replacement boot, but I'm wondering if anyone else had that problem.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: jrobie79 on March 05, 2011, 07:34:11 PM
hey blalor did you check this thread....might solve those idle issues:

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7757

check out post #6 and a couple after that one....

GL
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: blalor on March 06, 2011, 05:28:01 PM
Quote from: jrobie79;102054
hey blalor did you check this thread....might solve those idle issues:

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7757

check out post #6 and a couple after that one....

GL


Thanks, but my problems are with hard starting and rough idle when cold.  It's pretty good when warm.  I'll keep reading, tho, and check that wire on my car just for kicks. :)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Bimmer805 on March 28, 2011, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: aworthybrother;101965
can somebody please verify which is better:
 
Capping off the water outlet or put a bypass hose?  Thanks
 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200262.jpg)
 
or this?
 
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)


On my M42 i capped off the ports with bypass caps from my local autoparts store and everything seems fine and not overheating whatsoever but after you do the mod you HAVE to bleed the coolant system or else your needle will be kissing the redmark.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on April 08, 2011, 07:06:51 AM
I am doing this on my car currently and noticed the flow for the vaccum section is different than the consensus of how to hook it up. The consensus is ICV > rubber boot elbow and front of valve cover > throttle body. If you follow the stock flow, the front of the valve cover hose connect to the hose that has the coolant line coming into it and the up to the rubber elbow, not the throttle body.  Was the consensus more for looks. In the end, it is just air and there should be vaccum at both points, elbow and throttle body, just not sure if there is a difference. Anyone running the same flow as stock?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: stillmatick on May 11, 2011, 02:01:08 AM
is it best to cap or use the hose way?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on May 11, 2011, 07:54:27 AM
I'd do the hose instead.  I'm not sure about how long a cap would last.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: stillmatick on May 11, 2011, 08:28:14 AM
Quote from: DesktopDave;103737
I'd do the hose instead.  I'm not sure about how long a cap would last.


what size hose do i need? because looking at oem hose one side is bigger than the other? or should I use the oem hose because it actually can reach to the head nipple.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: stillmatick on May 11, 2011, 08:32:18 AM
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2uesdae.jpg)
yeah oem hose would work,fucken sweet.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Gerta318is on June 23, 2011, 01:14:39 AM
Anybody in the Seattle/Lynnwood area want to drop by and give me a hand with the mess under the intake?  Beer/Pizza in it for somebody who is of age and has skills.

Shoot me a PM or an email kmmorrin@gmail.com.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on June 24, 2011, 09:01:04 PM
Wrong coast, unfortunately.  It's on my short list as well, that's for sure.  I found a coolant leak under there a week ago & the car's been parked since then.
Title: Mess under the intake - a real mess...
Post by: Gerta318is on June 25, 2011, 12:04:22 PM
Where to start ... every single hose cracked or split.  Injectors look to have an 1/8th of an inch of carbon ... plastic coolant outlet broken in foward end (note plastic piece stuck in block) ... All the fuel lines are worn too ... carbon and dried oil everywhere.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on July 22, 2011, 08:33:47 AM
I was looking at the e30 factory manual and found this picture under remove intake for the m42. Look how the use the hoses to the intake elbow, and not to the throttle housing. Weird.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/Capture.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on July 22, 2011, 10:06:47 PM
I suspect there are quite a few variations on the M42 hose routing theme.  Seems like that whole system was a band-aid from the start and running production line changes didn't help it much.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: ryanjv on August 19, 2011, 04:53:41 AM
my rear hole for the elbow had a plug in it, don't you use the hole from the throttle body in that case?

it's been several months (including the ridiculous winter we had up here in toronto) and everything is still running great.  Not once did the throttle body stick without the heater plate.  Plus it looks much better

i need to get my vehicle e-tested in the next couple months, but i don't think we do visual tests.  and even if we did, i'm sure i'd be fine.  THe last time i got tested, the idiot didn't even know how to open the hood.  he kept trying to lift it like any other car :/
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on August 20, 2011, 01:18:40 PM
Here pics of my install using silicone hoses for the two runs. Also getting them in the size you need is easy since they come in everysize and even different colors. Tried to keep it stock locking.

Here is a better pic of the VC to throttle hose plus the new one installed.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/IMG_8813.jpg)

Here is newly added hose, hard to see under ICV.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/IMG_8814.jpg)

Here are how both hose look under boot/throttle plate:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/IMG_8815.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: anthonymax007 on November 09, 2011, 10:58:58 AM
Anyone in the central FL area done this yet? I'd like to, but I'm not gonna lie, I have no idea what I'm doing lol
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Nelson_40 on November 12, 2011, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: anthonymax007;107956
Anyone in the central FL area done this yet? I'd like to, but I'm not gonna lie, I have no idea what I'm doing lol

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-82YKS_F-Z2c/TvqQUURQDnI/AAAAAAAACFA/LKE_6QCGG20/s1280/Mess%252520routing.jpg)
This image is NOT to scale at all.

I am in central FL, but I am not really near Orlando. Anyway, I hope this helps things, and I hope I didn't make any errors.  Essentially you will have to find hoses that will fit in the areas to be replaced.  The best bet for finding the coolant hose you need is to take both hoses that would have connected to those two areas to the auto parts store and find a hose that will accommodate the outlet size difference.  As far as the vacuum lines that need to be replaced I think I purchased 5/8" line, but I don't really remember.  Just be sure to measure for yourself and it will be easy.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Matt-B on November 15, 2011, 03:19:13 PM
guys this is easy. dont make it hard on yourself.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: cyborgben on November 15, 2011, 06:07:54 PM
it really is. it all makes sense when you do it.
thanks to nelson it is even possible if you can't read!
and for the record all my hoses were split an inch or so... amazing it ran at all (of course that may be why i was able to pick it up cheap :) )
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Dhohn on November 27, 2011, 09:43:11 PM
on pre 10/91 vehicles that have this throttle body,where is the vaccuum port ?
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/g/v/10.png)
I know on the post 10/91 vehicles it is located directly under the throttle body as a tube which opens towards the driver fender.

I have access to a post 10/91throttle body out of the local junk yard. Would it be easiest just to pull the other throttle body ? or am I over complicating this ?

Thanks in advance
Title: Size of the 90 degree barbs?
Post by: jeff2051 on December 27, 2011, 09:28:55 AM
Morning Gooch.  What size reducer and 90 degree did you use?  1/2 inch? Reducers?  3/8 to 1/4; 5/8 to 1/2?  Both?  

Jeff



Quote from: Gooch;97729
Hey guys, I just did this over summer, and wrote the following up for a friend who is about to tackle "the mess under the intake".  I wish I took pictures to help document, but sadly I did not.

I got rid of the throttle body heating plates, so if you're looking to do the same, this is what you need to do:

11531714738 - coolant pipe from block
11531709157 - o-ring for pipe
13541743261 - throttle body gasket
11611717761 - upper/lower intake gasket
11611734684 - lower intake/block gasket
11531709052 - lower rad hose
64211386691 - coolant hose
13411721971 - vacuum hose from intake to ICV
13411721972 - vacuum hose from ICV to intake boot (lengthened with plastic/brass barbed fittings)
11151717858 - valve cover to throttle body (lengthend with plastic/brass barbed fittings)

Reuse a bunch of the plastic couplers, reducers, etc from the mess, you'll have a bunch extra from a lot of the stuff you'll be throwing away.

Brass barb fittings (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/barb.html)...I forget exactly what you need but with the intake off you'll be able to figure it out, you're gonna want a bunch of 1/2" splicers, a few reducers, and a 90 degree reducer, that you make out of a barb x fips and a 90 degree elbow barb x mips.  You want to use the reduceres and splicers to change between different size hoses, and also to space out like 5-6" of hose so that it doesn't collapse under vacuum.

Obviously you're going to need some  hose clamps, coolant (heater) hose, and vacuum hose for the brake booster if you mess yours up like I did.  I got the vacuum hose from rockauto (Gates part number 27230).

I did not replace the 2-3" of fuel lines between the hard lines because they looked alright.  But if you want to replace them, then you need to add some 5/16" fuel injection hose to your parts list.

Like I said before it's fairly obvious with the intake off what you need depending on what you want to do.

It is definitely way easier to use the OEM lines for the ICV to intake and valve cover to throttle body and extending them with the barbed fittings rather than using regular heater hose or vacuum hose because they have the correct bends.  Trust me I tried using regular hose and it didn't work very well.

Good luck!!!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: heltfeil on January 03, 2012, 08:52:28 AM
This is for the infamous M40, so not quite the right place, but you guys really seem to have it figured out.

Watercooling:
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTY1X3A=.png)

Would I be correct in assuming the parts I could delete is 10, 11 and 14, if I wanted to get rid of my throttle heater? Or anything else I can get rid of there?

For vacuum-lines, I don't think the M40 got the same mess the M42 does, but if anyone sport the M40 and know of anything that can be deleted or rerouted, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks :)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Geoff on January 03, 2012, 09:04:15 AM
I think you pretty much covered it,  except for the smaller hoses that go up to the throttle body itself.   Then, you only need vent from the valve cover to throttle body port,  and ICV to the rubber intake boot, and you're good to go.
                                        Geoff
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: heltfeil on January 04, 2012, 02:31:24 AM
Thanks for the reply :)

By small hoses to the throttlebody, are you talking about vacuums now or waterlines? Don't have the throttlebody heater-plate on this car, only the heater below.

But if its vacuum you are referring to, mind give me a couple of pointers on these diagrams?

(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/MjAzN19w.png)

Here you got the main vacuums going. I think what you suggested there is already stock. The hoses there go from upper intake manifold to ICV to rubber intake boot. The vent hose goes from valve cover to the throttle body. This next diagram doesn't really relieve where it ends, but it do go into the left side (if facing) of the throttle body.

(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/MTA5X3A=.png)

Do I have it right, or more correctly, did they get it right as stock?

Might be there was at least something done right with the M40. Even the ICV is placed out in the open as stock.

By the way, anyone knows of someone that supplies an aftermarket intake rubber boot that would fit this car? Part number 13 71 1 727 636.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Geoff on January 04, 2012, 06:35:51 AM
no,  I assumed it had the small hoses going to a spacer plate behind the throttle body.  If you dont have them,  you're good to go with the deletion process on the other stuff the way you propose:)
Title: Alternate quickie method
Post by: Wrench on March 06, 2012, 10:26:27 AM
I just bypassed the plate only with this simple procedure. I left everything alone (since all was in OK condition) and only replaced one hose. It's the one coming from the head. It is now connected to the aluminum u-shaped tube on the end nearest the firewall. I simply recycled one of the coolant hoses I removed. Now I can just put the plenum back on leave the plate off.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z1M_n9Uut8Y/T1YxcylOdjI/AAAAAAAAAFY/Ra7_igcrjY4/h301/12%2B-%2B1)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bim(noob)mer on March 26, 2012, 10:28:25 AM
Just for all those who might be wondering, the red hose that some people used is called multi duty hose and napa sells it. The hose appears to be dual reinforced and it only comes in red.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: batsbats on April 09, 2012, 10:15:57 PM
Found the culprit - Loose FPR Hose
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 16, 2012, 06:44:16 AM
64211386691 - coolant hose

This should definitely be added to the original post of parts list. I ordered everything from the original post, this was not on it, but someone else posted it in this thread.

I dove into the mess under the intake this weekend, thought I had everything covered. Until I saw this hose, it was looking worn. I saw what looked like a worn spot, there was just a thin layer of inner wall left in the worn spot. Of course no local place had anything in stock that would fit and the bend is to complicated to get away with rigging something.

So I am waiting on this for this Saturday to finish everything. I can't wait to have it all buttoned back up.

I am really glad I did this though, it let me give everything a good once over. I am going to be replacing the short pieces of fuel line too, looked like one had already been replaced at some point.

Does anyone have any tips on removing the lower intake with the injectors intact? Or do you just kind of leave it attached and lying in there like I saw in some of the pics?

I am also wondering if I should go ahead and order the injector o-rings so I could pull the injectors and clean them. Would that be something worth doing?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Geoff on April 16, 2012, 11:12:28 AM
imho,  if you go this far you may as well clean the injectors too.  there is enough slack in the wiring harness to pull the manifold, then pull the clips and plugs off the injectors, and leave that assembly in the engine compartment and pop the injectors out.  the o-rings are  cheap.
                                                                   Geoff
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 16, 2012, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Geoff;111872
imho,  if you go this far you may as well clean the injectors too.  there is enough slack in the wiring harness to pull the manifold, then pull the clips and plugs off the injectors, and leave that assembly in the engine compartment and pop the injectors out.  the o-rings are  cheap.
                                                                   Geoff


That ended up being my logic, I went ahead and ordered the o-rings.

Anyone with tips of tutorial on how to clean the injectors?


Also, what is the pattern when I retorque the manifolds?


Thanks again!

Can't wait to get it up and running, really banking on all of this making for a decent daily driver.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: colin86325 on April 16, 2012, 05:52:51 PM
When you delete the heater plate for the throttle body you will put extra strain on the intake boot, as it needs to stretch a bit further.  I recommend that you slot the two brackets where the AFM mounts to enable the whole airbox to slide rearwards to help compensate for the removed heater plate.  It will help keep your intake boot from cracking prematurely.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 16, 2012, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: colin86325;111881
When you delete the heater plate for the throttle body you will put extra strain on the intake boot, as it needs to stretch a bit further.  I recommend that you slot the two brackets where the AFM mounts to enable the whole airbox to slide rearwards to help compensate for the removed heater plate.  It will help keep your intake boot from cracking prematurely.


Also, the heater plate gasket I bought, which I believe is on the first post, is actually like a thick plastics spacer/gasket. That piece, paired with the original metal gaskets looks like it will pack my throttle boddy out enough not to cause strain.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: colin86325 on April 16, 2012, 10:39:30 PM
Perfect.  I just wished I had planned mine better the first time around. When I deleted the heater plate from my girlfriend's car I slotted the mounting tabs because I saw the cracks beginning in the intake boot on my car.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Geoff on April 17, 2012, 05:17:08 AM
well, it is a good idea to get the bellows in relatively the same position, to avoid cracks and stuff.   also, the change in position can require another adjustment, this one of the throttle cable so it works as before.  The easiest way to deal with this is just to leave the throttle heater in there,  now just acting as a spacer plate.    You would really need to know what you are looking at to see that its there, but not doing anything.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Nick_318is on April 17, 2012, 08:00:17 PM
I'm considering doing this as a mod not too far down the road, I know my hoses have seen better days.  I have a question though,  I like to track my car from time to time, does anyone who has made the mod frequently track their car and have they had any issues?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 19, 2012, 01:59:54 PM
I'm in a bit of a bind.

My pelican parts order just came in and the water hose I need did not come with it, atleast not the right one.

Anyone have a part number for the S shaped one that comes off the back of the head and goes to the heater core?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: keflaman on April 19, 2012, 02:04:42 PM
This one?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=11-53-1-721-846-M9&catalog_description=Water%20Hose%2C%20Heater%20Rad%20to%20Cyl%20Head%2C%20%33%31%38i%2Fis%2FiC%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%2D%20%3Cbr%3E%26nbsp%3B%26nbsp%3B%20%3Cspan%20style%3D%22font%2Dweight%3A%34%30%30%3Bcolor%3A%23%30%30%30%30%38%30%22%3E
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 19, 2012, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: keflaman;111971
This one?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=11-53-1-721-846-M9&catalog_description=Water%20Hose%2C%20Heater%20Rad%20to%20Cyl%20Head%2C%20%33%31%38i%2Fis%2FiC%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%2D%20%3Cbr%3E%26nbsp%3B%26nbsp%3B%20%3Cspan%20style%3D%22font%2Dweight%3A%34%30%30%3Bcolor%3A%23%30%30%30%30%38%30%22%3E


No, that is the normal rad hose on the front.

The one I need is all the way at the rear of the head, comes off a nipple and turns tight off of it back to the heater core inlet/outlet I believe.

This of course needs that tight pre bend since it is under the manifold.

The two I ordered that looked close to it, seem too small. I am hoping I am wrong though. Can't check until late after work.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on April 19, 2012, 10:54:54 PM
should be part #23 under this link:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35 (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35)

Here is it from pelican:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=64-21-1-386-690-M101&catalog_description=Heater%20Hose%2C%20Cyl%20Head%20to%20Heater%20Valve%20Inlet%2C%20%33%31%38is%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%20 (http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=64-21-1-386-690-M101&catalog_description=Heater%20Hose%2C%20Cyl%20Head%20to%20Heater%20Valve%20Inlet%2C%20%33%31%38is%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%20)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: LoneWolf on April 19, 2012, 11:31:10 PM
Quote from: monty23psk;111994
should be part #23 under this link:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35 (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=11_1272&hg=11&fg=35)

Here is it from pelican:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=64-21-1-386-690-M101&catalog_description=Heater%20Hose%2C%20Cyl%20Head%20to%20Heater%20Valve%20Inlet%2C%20%33%31%38is%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%20 (http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=64-21-1-386-690-M101&catalog_description=Heater%20Hose%2C%20Cyl%20Head%20to%20Heater%20Valve%20Inlet%2C%20%33%31%38is%20%28%31%39%39%31%29%20%20)

Big thanks!

This is exactly what I needed.

Any idea if I can get away with buttoning everything else up then putting this on when it finally comes in next week ?

Edit: and I forgot to ask, does anyone have any kind of writeup on how to pull and clean the injectors?

I went ahead and ordered the parts but haven't been able to find anything on the procedure or what to use to clean them.

Thanks!

Edit the edit: I finished all of this up and started my own thread in the Engine and Drivetrain section. I have run into a few issues. Please stop by and lend some expertise!
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: anthonymax007 on April 25, 2012, 04:55:13 PM
I'm going to do this on Saturday. What torque specifications should I be aware of?
Title: hard fuel lines necessary?
Post by: cyborgben on April 27, 2012, 10:40:47 PM
doing the muti and was thinking of replacing the rubber fuel lines from the hard crazy H shaped lines in the intake down to the hard lines on the frame. why cant i just run rubber lines all the way up and get rid of the upper hard lines and their extra connections and lack of flexibility...?  opinions?
note - i read this entire post in the past and dont remember this topic, if it was in there, then i just forgot or missed it and i apologize
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on April 28, 2012, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: cyborgben;112192
doing the muti and was thinking of replacing the rubber fuel lines from the hard crazy H shaped lines in the intake down to the hard lines on the frame. why cant i just run rubber lines all the way up and get rid of the upper hard lines and their extra connections and lack of flexibility...?  opinions?
note - i read this entire post in the past and dont remember this topic, if it was in there, then i just forgot or missed it and i apologize

Hey Ben, whuzzup? :D

I've thought about that myself.  I figured it was a production line detail just to make it easier to install the motor.  I don't see why it'd be a problem.  Maybe fuel line abrasion was a problem when they tested the M42?
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: cyborgben on April 28, 2012, 05:22:17 PM
long winter with too many kids, septic tanks, fallen trees and wives..:( trying to get back to the m42 now (new black interior waiting) and the lift is still in the "developmental stage.." good luck with the new shark - they are a cool statement kind of car.

anyway to stay on topic - you could always put some wire loom on it, or split a larger size heater hose, but my walet aswered it for me - fuel injection line was 7 bucks a foot at advance - almost 40 bucks for something that already works and might cause some unforeseen problem? no thanks.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: carguy101 on June 07, 2012, 10:43:15 AM
Mine definitely runs smoother with this. I didn't take off the intake, so it can be done while doing the rest.
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: bsturman92 on November 24, 2012, 09:28:15 AM
hey gotta question. im ordering all my parts now for mess under the intake.. and i want to be sure my vacuum hoses do not collapse. wat type of hose should i order? im gettting all my parts through pelican but if there are better hoses at auto store i would prefer to pick those up. im getting 5/8 heater hose, 19/32 vacuum hose. where should i get the hose from is wat im tryin to ask i guess.. any help would be appreciated
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on December 08, 2012, 11:32:21 AM
Will tracking my lumpy idle I noticed a the OEM hose on top of the ICV to the back of the valve cover was cracked and starting to go. I decided to keep it going with the silicone hoses I used in the other areas. I then reverse the ICV and bought another 2 feet fo the 12mm hose. I then ran it from the valve cover to the ICV. The issue is that ICV fitting at the top and bottom are better fitted for the 16mm hose and they dont make a 14mm. I then figured out you can use the 12mm inside the 16mm very snug. I then used one of the straight OEM couplers to join he 12mm hose coming from under the intake boot to the 16mm hose going to the bottom of the ICV. I could have just merged them also, but I had the hoses cut shorter from the last setup. I try to keep it looking stock.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/IMG_1167.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine/IMG_1168.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: Johnny D on December 19, 2012, 02:51:22 PM
Need some help.  Searched, but not able to sift through all the info to find my answer.

I did this last week and replaced all the hoses with new of the correct type.  My issue comes from the head to the plastic piece in the block.
I have mine connected like the pic below that was posted earlier in the thread, everything is tight and of the correct size.  Im still seeing high temps and a leak at the head.  What is the flow direction?  Does it come out of the head and into the block or the other way around?

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg)
Title: The mess under the intake
Post by: MattBimmer on December 31, 2012, 10:42:55 PM
Need some help guys how do you disconnect the wiring harness from the Alternator
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Bald Eagle on April 22, 2013, 03:37:42 PM
I scoured the internet with no luck on finding color codes or ways to identify the 3 wires to the head and oil sensor. Right from the manual I found the correct setup with explanation on exactly what i needed.

I will also post reply of replacing the Water port on rear of the head as no one has offered this info.

* Coolant Temperature Gage Sender, Coolant Temperature Sensor - DME, Oil Pressure Switch (Sensors under intake, Temp gauge)*
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Nick_318is on July 25, 2013, 08:47:38 AM
Many thanks to everyone who posted in this thread.  I finally did this project a few weeks ago after thinking about it for a year.  The car runs great (when you have the ICV pointed the right direction  :P)

This picture from page 22 made the process very straight forward so you don't even really need to think about it.  I opted for the loop of hose between the head and the pipe, rather than closing them off, I shoved some 1/2 heater hoe into the 5/8 hose to get a nice fit.


Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: monty23psk on July 25, 2013, 01:34:00 PM
Ha, those are my pictures unless you refer to the diagrams and not pictures. I have since move the ICV to elbow hose to the bottom whole closer to the AFM, away from the throttle body as per bmwman91's stating it in another thread. Didnt really change anything in the running characteristics.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Nick_318is on July 25, 2013, 02:53:11 PM
I was actually referring to this diagram, but your pictures are pretty good too.  I left the ICV where it originally was, I had 2 of the 90 degree connectors (pn 13411721971) one on either side and then reused a plastic connector to go right to the elbow with 5/8" hose.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-82YKS_F-Z2c/TvqQUURQDnI/AAAAAAAACFA/LKE_6QCGG20/s1280/Mess%252520routing.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slowered318 on July 26, 2013, 12:05:48 AM
Found the perfect hose to go from the water pipe to the head. Part #11531247398
All you have to do is cut it to length.

Title: Started Yesterday
Post by: docgoku on September 08, 2013, 07:41:31 AM
I've tacked on way to many maintenance items to this job but it's a good thing to get done on a car at this point in its life.  I've only had it for a few months now, so good to get into the internals a bit.
Full list: cooling pipe, all cooling hoses, thermostat, aux belts, fuel filter, ICV clean, flush cooling system, and now after reading the thread again... oil catch can mod.

Right now though, I've gotten all the intakes off and replaced the fuel filter.  Then got started on cleaning the intakes.  My injectors don't want to come out but I'm reading on that one. 

One big question and then some pictures. 
The rubber grommet that connects into the main vacuum, has anyone replaced that? 
It just seems a little loose and old. 
I'm going though realoem now, see if I can make it out.  Will be something I tackle at the end.  Its easy to get to later.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LRNsYX4sWgk/Uixt09mcuII/AAAAAAAAAS8/CTYSIehyA4k/w800-h641-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_19_AM.jpg)

I'd strongly suggest replacing the two little fuel lines that connect to the fuel rail.  One of mine was fine.  The other was fused on both ends and very brittle.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cFN0WxMPFkM/Uixt1MiNQXI/AAAAAAAAATE/Q0ppndWZwh0/w800-h612-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_14_AM.jpg)

Today, since I only get about 1-2 hours at a time, wife+child are kind enough to give me that much.   :D
I'm going to be cleaning and cleaning.....  Great thread btw!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XBjRsfIZkDA/Uixt1r6SVXI/AAAAAAAAATM/vcfc_Wrfl7I/w800-h629-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_18_AM.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TVaNDeDWg28/Uixt1wx5X5I/AAAAAAAAATU/Y9t2d1qqSis/w800-h627-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_17_AM.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 08, 2013, 09:21:19 PM
Making progress, one mystery came up.

The hoses to and from the heater core, check this out  ???
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2F5JD4mh1sU/Ui0tWWE5YTI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/r3Zf1xa_rhs/w869-h853-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_10_02_PM-2.jpg)

Is this setup to by-pass the heater core? 
I'm pretty sure my heater works fine, only used it once or twice though.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M0Rwstoo16I/Ui0tVTHQrcI/AAAAAAAAAUA/ojGfyz1cMng/w818-h724-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_10_03_PM.jpg)

Thanks for any help on this one, I've pulled up the one RealOEM diagram of all the engine cooling and it's not showing that type of interconnect.  And this just looks like a hack to keep flow to block if the heater core is not working...

More confirmation as to why anyone with an E30 should do this and then other little tasks as well.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dUKA0ol2HCI/Ui0tXdBNWsI/AAAAAAAAAUg/gLSVAdKl8o4/w848-h726-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_9_58_PM.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4wOe9Xw294w/Ui0tW_Mn19I/AAAAAAAAAUc/9NAAYSx7fiM/w711-h659-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_9_59_PM.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on September 09, 2013, 07:00:39 AM
Making progress, one mystery came up.

The hoses to and from the heater core, check this out  ???


Is this setup to by-pass the heater core? 
I'm pretty sure my heater works fine, only used it once or twice though.


Thanks for any help on this one, I've pulled up the one RealOEM diagram of all the engine cooling and it's not showing that type of interconnect.  And this just looks like a hack to keep flow to block if the heater core is not working...

That was a BMW service fix to prevent high pressure from rupturing the heater core.  It's a waxstat that opens to release pressure, bleeds back into the supply line before it enters the cabin.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 09, 2013, 07:06:04 AM
Sounds like something I should keep then?
I'm assuming that was a needed service fix.

Thanks for the information, bc that was confusing. Looking up the service fix now.  Man, it's like every TSB site is now pay for access. 
Title: Re: Started Yesterday
Post by: Slowered318 on September 09, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
One big question and then some pictures. 
The rubber grommet that connects into the main vacuum, has anyone replaced that? 
It just seems a little loose and old. 
I'm going though realoem now, see if I can make it out.  Will be something I tackle at the end.  Its easy to get to later.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LRNsYX4sWgk/Uixt09mcuII/AAAAAAAAAS8/CTYSIehyA4k/w800-h641-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_19_AM.jpg)

I replaced the entire assembly, last thing you want is a vacuum leak or unexpected loss of brake assistance.

Any 12-13mm ID (1/2 inch x 12) vacuum hose should work, I used 300psi industrial hose for added confidence but the part number is 34331115926. It's also a good time to replace the check valve, PN is 34331156703 or 34331154581. Plastic elbow PN is 34331158930 and brake booster grommet 4331158929 is currently on sale at ECS.
Title: Re: Started Yesterday
Post by: docgoku on September 09, 2013, 02:07:44 PM
I replaced the entire assembly, last thing you want is a vacuum leak or unexpected loss of brake assistance.

Any 12-13mm ID (1/2 inch x 12) vacuum hose should work, I used 300psi industrial hose for added confidence but the part number is 34331115926. It's also a good time to replace the check valve, PN is 34331156703 or 34331154581. Plastic elbow PN is 34331158930 and brake booster grommet 4331158929 is currently on sale at ECS.

Thank You!  This will be order #10ish from our fine part suppliers of the interwebs.  ;) 

The check valve.  Crazy between the two possible valves.  34331154581 is $31 vs. 34331156703 at $7.  The first is strait where the 2nd is the elbow check valve like I have.  I'm doing the $7.  Just nuts.

As for the hose, I have some hiperformancestore.com silicone hoses, still a little leary of how much they can take before collapsing. 
I see their boost tests but still.  I guess I have the kit, might as well try, just as a test.  But yeah, on the road loosing all of those systems would be bad. 
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 09, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
You know, the more I think about that brake booster and how loose it is, one of my peeves with the car right now is braking performance.  The previous owner had just put on cheap auto parts store rotors and pads, so I thought it was that...and he is a BMW petrol-head guy.  That's what he kept saying, probably the cheap rotor/pad combo.  But... it could just be this... not a good seal, lost a ton of braking performance.  Parts are ordered... should be pretty interesting test.  Assuming the silicone hoses don't collapse. 
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Gods_Son on September 09, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
Can someone familiar with the procedure please re-color or label which coolant hoses to add and which to delete? From my monitor they blue looks the same for add and delete so I cannot make out what I'm supposed to do. Thanks.


(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-82YKS_F-Z2c/TvqQUURQDnI/AAAAAAAACFA/LKE_6QCGG20/s1280/Mess%252520routing.jpg)
Title: Re: Started Yesterday
Post by: DesktopDave on September 09, 2013, 04:42:07 PM
I replaced the entire assembly, last thing you want is a vacuum leak or unexpected loss of brake assistance.

Any 12-13mm ID (1/2 inch x 12) vacuum hose should work, I used 300psi industrial hose for added confidence but the part number is 34331115926. It's also a good time to replace the check valve, PN is 34331156703 or 34331154581. Plastic elbow PN is 34331158930 and brake booster grommet 4331158929 is currently on sale at ECS.

Thank You!  This will be order #10ish from our fine part suppliers of the interwebs.  ;) 

The check valve.  Crazy between the two possible valves.  34331154581 is $31 vs. 34331156703 at $7.  The first is strait where the 2nd is the elbow check valve like I have.  I'm doing the $7.  Just nuts.

As for the hose, I have some hiperformancestore.com silicone hoses, still a little leary of how much they can take before collapsing. 
I see their boost tests but still.  I guess I have the kit, might as well try, just as a test.  But yeah, on the road loosing all of those systems would be bad.

I bought the Hiperformance.com kit in red.  One hose was a bit short, hopefully they've fixed that (it didn't make much difference as I was eliminating the throttle heater plates).  The cigar cutter is brilliant, though too small for the largest hose they send.  No complaints otherwise - great people to deal with, answered all my questions, very high quality product.  I've had it in the car for over two years with zero problems to report.  I did note that the tight fit is a problem.  If the hose is nice and tight, it can be internally damaged by repeatedly pulling it on and off.

Losing a brake booster is problematic but not fatal.  The brakes still work, they just require a lot more effort.  IMHO most boosters are not running at 100% regardless - and both the booster and the master cylinder are massively overbuilt.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Nick_318is on September 10, 2013, 10:44:15 AM
Here is my quick and dirty paint edit of the diagram with red arrows pointing at them.  Delete any hoses going to the heater plate.  Take pictures as you take it apart to help remember where things went once you see how it goes you'll see how much easier routing them this way is.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e171/nick_318is/Messrouting-coolantcomponenttodelete_zps734f8998.jpg)

Can someone familiar with the procedure please re-color or label which coolant hoses to add and which to delete? From my monitor they blue looks the same for add and delete so I cannot make out what I'm supposed to do. Thanks.
Title: Re: Started Yesterday
Post by: Slowered318 on September 10, 2013, 11:16:08 AM
Thank You!  This will be order #10ish from our fine part suppliers of the interwebs.  ;) 

The check valve.  Crazy between the two possible valves.  34331154581 is $31 vs. 34331156703 at $7.  The first is strait where the 2nd is the elbow check valve like I have.  I'm doing the $7.  Just nuts.

As for the hose, I have some hiperformancestore.com silicone hoses, still a little leary of how much they can take before collapsing. 
I see their boost tests but still.  I guess I have the kit, might as well try, just as a test.  But yeah, on the road loosing all of those systems would be bad.

I hope they had some patience left after dealing with my 7 separate orders. haha!

Sounds like a win/win on the check valve, the angled one should allow for more movement with the engine.

The silicon should work but I would still go with high pressure fuel hose. Just stop into an industrial hose supply store, they will have scrap laying around. I found some hose just like this, it's flexible yet I cannot crush it without a clamp. http://parshun.en.alibaba.com/product/932071892-200046207/SAE_30R7_Cotton_Outer_braided_fuel_hose.html
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Gods_Son on September 10, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
Here is my quick and dirty paint edit of the diagram with red arrows pointing at them.  Delete any hoses going to the heater plate.  Take pictures as you take it apart to help remember where things went once you see how it goes you'll see how much easier routing them this way is.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e171/nick_318is/Messrouting-coolantcomponenttodelete_zps734f8998.jpg)

Can someone familiar with the procedure please re-color or label which coolant hoses to add and which to delete? From my monitor they blue looks the same for add and delete so I cannot make out what I'm supposed to do. Thanks.

Excellent, thank you so much!
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 14, 2013, 10:34:39 PM
recolored the picutre.  That purple and blue was a little hard to see.  Nelson_40 and/or Blue BMW (or someone else?) look to have made these images and they are the best diagrams!  Many thanks to them.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7a8e57VlXC8/UkbNRzYjP7I/AAAAAAAAAWg/-xCuuxqZiFk/w2560-h1354-no/Mess+routing+ReColorized.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 14, 2013, 10:43:07 PM
I only got about an hour today but one question.  The heater hose.  Anyone else get this look from their new coolant hose between the cooling pipe and the block?
Given that it's not really needed, aka that port has been capped off by some people, I'm not that worried.... but this is what it looks like.  Just kind of 3/4 collapsed.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K6vGOboBVos/UjUql3TS73I/AAAAAAAAAVE/KlPa6RICZws/w849-h865-no/Screenshot_9_14_13_11_30_PM.jpg)

For anyone else reading later, this is what the block nipple side looks like with 5/8 heater hose and no step down like some people have done, to 1/2 to fit the smaller nipple on the block.
That worked for the OP for a number of years so I think it will be OK. 
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZLCY_DKLEHE/UjUqlqTiIFI/AAAAAAAAAU8/vBQakGzhmtw/w839-h697-no/Screenshot_9_14_13_11_31_PM.jpg)

This is the heater hose I used.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2WEIC/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My brake booster parts haven't arrived from ECS yet, USPS....little sluggish.  But tomorrow I'll replace my thermostat and then start to button the intake back up.

Top view of the new coolant / heater hose I used.... from coolant pipe to engine block.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Jc2oMO_KpEs/UjUx4a_-XDI/AAAAAAAAAVU/MWjYfh8iUhs/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-14+15.20.37.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on September 29, 2013, 07:03:55 AM
Finished yesterday.  Had some bonus tasks like rust on the battery tray, new battery, and new battery cables that took up a little time.  And new fuel lines back at the fuel filter...
But, she's running and well.  I have a little nock every now and then I can hear inside the car but not outside.  So, tracking that down.  I think it's perhaps where I mounted the ICV. 

She's staying right in the middle on temperature so that's a good sign and no massive loss of coolant or fuel.  *yet*  :)

Best thread ever, and I tried to show how I flatened the ICV holder bracket and mounted it to the fuel rail bracket...but hard to take a good picture of that.

The Pics
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OPTFtCGjvXg/UkgUc8p4QnI/AAAAAAAAAXY/xrsCLj4_iGc/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+10.55.36.jpg)

Thanks for some of the good fuel line pictures, I was tempted to hook these two up backwards.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TOfMydzTCOM/UkgUbJtuvyI/AAAAAAAAAXQ/TCuZzx0I_UA/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+10.55.41.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5m5B1f6tawk/UkgUZs-OGfI/AAAAAAAAAXI/9Rxo5iZMcJk/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+10.55.49.jpg)
without the fan shroud back on.  During all this... definitely know the radiator will be done next.
I didn't do a full cooling system flush b/c I'll be taking it all apart again in a few months to replace the radiator.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Wy4lRTma_vY/UkgUVRZzsGI/AAAAAAAAAXA/3uxQMTvv58A/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+18.47.28.jpg)

Finished pictures, without the fan shroud and under car protection back.  I'm leaving those off, have belts todo.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NOglyEPnu3I/UkgUMK8_fNI/AAAAAAAAAW4/ixs618IrjTw/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+18.47.53.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iTYk100_P3k/UkgT9IKvEbI/AAAAAAAAAWw/S3NSK0WExDY/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-28+18.48.40.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: david318vert on October 04, 2013, 12:14:50 AM
Top view of the new coolant / heater hose I used.... from coolant pipe to engine block.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Jc2oMO_KpEs/UjUx4a_-XDI/AAAAAAAAAVU/MWjYfh8iUhs/w884-h1179-no/2013-09-14+15.20.37.jpg)

used the diagram but that hose in this picture exploded vapor from the engine block it was a new hose. checked it it was still on tight. im confused what i could have done wrong followed the diagram to the dot. any ideas?

Thanks
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on October 04, 2013, 05:55:30 AM
I could think of two things. 
The hose not being a heater hose/or other high temp hose....or a kink that was so "closed" it built up back pressure and the block side wasn't tight enough.  I'm assuming the hose popped off the block.

If I had to do that particular hose over again, I would get the part number mentioned here for that hose, 11511739245.
Then cut of the last 90* turn at the top.  That hose is from the E36 and snakes around much better, no kinks, and each end fits their nipple/connector perfectly.  Apparently it's 16mm where it connects to the plastic coolant connector and 10mm where it meets the engine block.

I don't like how mine has a kink in it..but it does flow. 
Since a bunch of people have just capped off that whole line anyway, my thought was at least I have some flow.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slowered318 on October 04, 2013, 06:31:25 AM
Doesn't standard heater hose have a green stripe? The hose type/size you used is likely the problem. Don't take chances this time around, get the e36 moulded hose.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: david318vert on October 04, 2013, 08:19:10 AM
Ya what i did was use two hoses one that fits on the junction and the other on the block and connected them with a L shape thingy  ;D  i got the lines from autozone. so there not coolsnt lines?
Thank you
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on October 04, 2013, 08:27:23 AM
Pictures?
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slowered318 on October 04, 2013, 10:09:40 AM
Hats off to you if you somehow found a 3/8 to 5/8 barbed elbow.

I gave up and started looking at other BMW's with the same block mount heat pipe. That's when I came across the PN 11511739245.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: david318vert on October 04, 2013, 05:36:37 PM
it wasn't a elbow deal it was more like a adapter i believe... i cant remember of the top of my head.
ok so i just took of my intake manifold and found that the hose that comes from the coolant junction to my heater core was kinked in one spot so it blew where it connects to the junction breaking of the nipple to the junction.

thank you
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: 2ruble on November 03, 2013, 08:11:14 AM
So - questions - I did this about a week ago (before seeing this thread) and have now looked through all 26 pages. My questions are regarding the vacuum, I know that people have run the vacuum slightly different on each car but there is a general agreement on where everything should go. In the pictures below (taken from engine pictures above) I've tried to show a representation of how mine is routed and would like some suggestions on whether it's fine or I should fix it. The car would idle high once warm when I bought it, I have since does both manifold gaskets and this plate delete mod - after doing a (homemade) smoke test to try and find any vacuum leaks - as the car still idles high (between 1,400-1,600 RPMs) once warm.

The first picture shows (in paint  :) ) how I routed my VC hose - I brought it to a 'T' from the ICV to the intake elbow

The second picture circles a port on the TB that there is a hose coming from that is plugged in to the TB side of the intake boot (red angled/'V' in third picture)

I am also missing "8" from the second picture - don't know how necessary that is.

Lastly - I've seen posts that this TB is only on post 10/1991 production cars, but mine is 9/90 (per realoem)

Anyway - I've seen people route the ICV to the elbow of the intake boot and the VC hose to the TB port of the intake boot but what about that 45* port on the TB (circled in pic 2)? I've also seen people route the ICV to the TB side of the boot and the VC hose to that little port that's circled - but then what about the port on the intake elbow?

I know pictures of my car would help but I can't get them until later (at work) - if all of this is fine does anyone have another suggestion on why it might idle to 1,600 when warm? And if a vacuum leak the best way to find a leak somewhere?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 03, 2013, 10:37:26 AM
I'm a bit confused by your description, but IIRC the VC hose goes to the large TB nipple on the early M42.  The TB nipple bypasses the throttle plates.  It's plumbed into the intake plenum, providing constant vacuum to the VC.  I'd guess that when you tee'd the VC pipe into the ICV, you're adding a bit of blow-by gas & oil into the ICV, making the mixture rich, thus running a high idle.

I always figured that the ICV won't work correctly unless it bypasses the throttle plates in the TB.  It must take air from one of the elbows off the intake snorkel before the TB.

Mine is plumbed up this way:
Intake manifold  --> FPR
TB lower nipple --> Valve Cover
TB side nipple --> fuel vapor control valve --> charcoal canister
Intake manifold lower runner nipple --> brake booster check valve --> brake booster
Intake snorkle elbow --> ICV --> extreme rear of intake runner near firewall
The 2nd intake snorkel port is plugged.

Measure your coolant temp sensor resistance too - should be very high when cold and very low when warm.  If that's sending the wrong signal your car will tend to run enrichment cycle (high idle) despite being fully warmed up.  You'll see poor fuel mileage too.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: 2ruble on November 03, 2013, 11:36:08 AM
I'll snap a couple pictures when I leave work today so you can see - but what you're saying hopefully will help with that idle... because it's definitely not set up like that... lol

Also, does that half washer looking thing (part 8 that sits between the TB and the intake arm) need to be there? Or is that nothing?
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: DesktopDave on November 03, 2013, 04:14:38 PM
I'll snap a couple pictures when I leave work today so you can see - but what you're saying hopefully will help with that idle... because it's definitely not set up like that... lol

Also, does that half washer looking thing (part 8 that sits between the TB and the intake arm) need to be there? Or is that nothing?

That half-moon bracket is a retainer for the lower TB heater plate.  I'm pretty sure I left mine on too, even though I deleted the heater.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: 2ruble on November 04, 2013, 09:40:03 AM
I didn't replace the half moon thing - I still have it (maybe)... but it doesn't seem like it affects anything...

Here are the pictures of what I had before your post (changed it all around last night when I got home) - I cleaned out the ICV as best I could and put it all together and there is no noticable difference... it still idles between 1,400-1,600 at a stop and when coming off the highway to a stop (or being in throttle pretty hard) it'll bounce/pulsate from about 1,000-1,600

First is that elbow from the TB port on the intake arm to that metal nipple - this thing was there when I bought the car so don't blame me :)
Second - the T junction I put in (now ICV goes only to intake port by box and VC hose goes to that metal nozzle on the TB)
Third - shows the hoses coming from the T going to the intake elbow and under/around to the VC port
Fourth - is just a step back shot of the routing - red = the T where the VC and ICV hoses connected; yellow = weird recirc elbow thing

But now it's setup how you said (and others have pictured) - ICV goes only to intake elbow, port on intake arm closest to TB is plugged and VC hose goes to little metal nozzle thing... Thanks for that - now I need to solve the idle/pulsating issue... and get new (to me) injectors as these are ridiculously loud
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slowered318 on November 11, 2013, 10:33:41 AM
Looks like the previous owner or his mechanic struggled to repair/replace the vacuum lines. Have you checked the throttle body and cable is not binding up? Also is the brake booster functioning properly, it should hold vacuum even after you turn off the engine. So all the line are routed correctly and the ICV barbed fitting is pointing down?

Not a short term problem but you have used "heater" hose when it should be vacuum or something with resistance to oil/fuel. 
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docdrey on April 25, 2014, 07:38:30 PM
Just started this yesterday. Beautiful thread. SOOOOOO much help here.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docdrey on April 26, 2014, 07:14:55 PM
Just finished. Lol forgot to tighten the manifold half that bolts up to the head and had to take it back apart. Other than that, this is awesome.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: mabeer on January 09, 2015, 11:15:52 AM
recolored the picutre.  That purple and blue was a little hard to see.  Nelson_40 and/or Blue BMW (or someone else?) look to have made these images and they are the best diagrams!  Many thanks to them.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7a8e57VlXC8/UkbNRzYjP7I/AAAAAAAAAWg/-xCuuxqZiFk/w2560-h1354-no/Mess+routing+ReColorized.jpg)

Sorry for the ancient bump but I believe the dark blue lines from the heater Core Inlet/Outlet are reversed.  The bottom should run to the head and the top should run to the plastic pipe as depicted in the first image below. Originally posted by DRTE30 in this post http://www.m42club.com/forum/index.php?topic=17914.msg122920#msg122920  I was freezing my tush off until I made the switch.

(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/Car%20stuff/heater1.jpg)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on January 09, 2015, 12:39:43 PM
Good catch, I never really checked the diagram when putting the heater hoses back!  I didn't trust myself so I have each hookup matching labels.
One tick and I'll update the diagram.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on January 09, 2015, 12:56:48 PM
Updated, with heater hoses in the right order.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nCZf1G8FgO0/VLAj7i3t6yI/AAAAAAAAAlo/Lx95uWDU6Ck/w1280-h677-no/Mess%2Brouting%2BReColorized.png)
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: smbstyle on March 19, 2015, 10:07:47 AM


More confirmation as to why anyone with an E30 should do this and then other little tasks as well.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dUKA0ol2HCI/Ui0tXdBNWsI/AAAAAAAAAUg/gLSVAdKl8o4/w848-h726-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_9_58_PM.jpg)


What is the best procedure to clean that area of the lower intake manifold with the injectors still plugged in? Just spray with some carb cleaner?
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on March 19, 2015, 10:15:37 AM
I used the typical carb cleaner, microfiber towels, wrapped around a brush.  Allowed me to get into those tight areas pretty well.
I didn't have a part washing bin or other cool toys.
Title: Re: Started Yesterday
Post by: smbstyle on March 19, 2015, 11:45:04 AM

Today, since I only get about 1-2 hours at a time, wife+child are kind enough to give me that much.   :D
I'm going to be cleaning and cleaning.....  Great thread btw!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XBjRsfIZkDA/Uixt1r6SVXI/AAAAAAAAATM/vcfc_Wrfl7I/w800-h629-no/Screenshot_9_8_13_8_18_AM.jpg)

Also any tips for cleaning that crud out of the intake ports without the crud falling down into the valves?
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: docgoku on March 19, 2015, 11:57:43 AM
That was tricky.  I didn't go too crazy on that area for the exact reason you are worried about.

Here is what I did, stuck/stuffed small microfiber towel in to the port.  Just to "seal/cover" it a bit.
Then tried to make sure all my wiping motions were pulling back outwards.  Leaving that small towel in there to protect the valve and catch any debris.

In my case it wasn't very hard to get that crud off, so that worked pretty well.  If you needed to put some force in there to clean...I'm sure there is a better way.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: 2fysh on December 06, 2015, 10:57:25 AM
Sorry to bump this ld thread.  New to the m42.

So I have read all 27 pages of this thread and there is a ton of info.  From what i understand is that the plumbing for the "mod" varies depending on the year of your m42.  First things first.  Is there anyway to tell what year of motor you have based on any numbers stamped on it?  I bought the motor from the PO and he said it came out of a 93 318is.  Not that i don't believe him but wanted to make sure before i start ordering parts to avoid confusion. 

As far as the "mess under the intake", I need some clarification if anyone can help.  TIA.  Here's what i need to know:

If I understand correctly the hose labeled "H" (pic 1)can be routed to the nipple on the block where hose "T" is attached (pic 2).

The VC hose can be routed to the underside of the TB (pic 3 & 4)

Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: 2fysh on December 06, 2015, 11:17:07 AM
Sorry to double post.  It would only let me post 4 pics at a time.

Here's my real concern.  The nipple on the throttle body is where the hose from the plastic coolant tube was attached (pic 1 in the previous post labeled "H").  What goes here now? (pic 1)

There appears to be two nipples on the Throttle body heater plate (assuming this is the little block between the throttle body and the intake).  One has a hose that is attached to the TB opposite the nipple (referenced in pic 1).  This short hose can be seen in the pic of the ICV (pic 2)  If the Heater plate is removed then do these two nipples get plugged? 

What is the proper routing of hoses for the ICV (pic 2)?

Finally what attaches to the nipple that the hose from the block nipple attached to?  I assume nothing if this is in fact part of the TB Heater plate that gets removed (pic 3). 



Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: faffierwaffle on April 13, 2016, 10:32:27 PM
First off thank you so much this is an amazing thread, docgoku that color coded diagram is PERFECT, shows every connection clearly (2fysh your throttle body connections are on there).

Instead of simply plugging the coolant line (which we now know to be completely safe right??!!) i want to plug it and put a temperature sensor there. I am doing a project involving arduino and DS18B20 sensors so grounding it like a temp sender is not needed. I plan to put a water temp sensor in the upper radiator hose but that wont get a true temp until the thermostat opens. Is the coolant in this tube circulating while the engine is warming up, giving me a more accurate engine temp.

Also what kind of plugs are you guys using just a generic 5/8 coolant cap?
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Jaredmac11 on February 16, 2018, 09:49:57 PM
I wanna give my $.02 about improving the MUTI, particularly with the ICV.

I found that the e36 intake boot has a good spot for the ICV air hose, so that'd be worth picking up.
E36 air hose from the ICV to the intake also works well. 13411739649
I repurposed a heater hose from the E36 as well for the boot to ICV air hose.  Just trimmed off the end. 64211387010

Finally I bolted the ICV directly to the intake. Not sure if this was done on the E30 already.

Im happy with the final result, seems to be very slim and all bolts directly to the M42.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: iwanttobecold on March 13, 2018, 05:41:59 PM
Surprised that people are still posting on this 11 year old thread...

I've ordered all my parts and I will be doing the MUTI this weekend, along with replacing the fuel injector wiring harness (which had been chewed by some rodent). I've also got a new intake boot to throw on it, and I hope that all this will solve my idle/misfiring on acceleration mess.
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: RotCowboy on November 11, 2019, 08:42:03 AM
I will pile on to this very useful old thread.  I just did the MUTI on my 91 vert (182k miles) and will throw in a photo. 

The plastic water pipe manifold on the side of the engine that I replaced was the most difficult part.  It took 3 tries to get it to seal and hold pressure.  I used the Uro version which may have contributed to the difficulty.  I added Toyota FIPG to the seal to finally get it to work and used a crowbar to apply gentle pressure.  I used a piece of blue silicone heater hose that was in-between the sizes of the manifold nipple and the engine block outlet.  I had to really stretch it over the manifold and used a small piece of leftover hose inside the engine end and FIPG to seal the end (I believe I had a leak here before this fix).  I also left the metal heater plates in place to keep the spacing the same and not put stretching pressure on the intake boot.

I recommend that you get a hold of a cooling system pressure tester (many auto parts stores rent these).  When I tested my system after final assembly (at 15psi) I found a leak from an improperly installed clamp on a hose going into the heater core.

I now have all the coolant hoses replaced (had to buy actual replacement hoses since they all have unique bends to them).   Also there is a recall fix, where they placed a safety valve on the hose from the engine and the heater core (sometime in the early 90s) this requires you to cut two of your new hoses in half to splice this device into it. I replaced all the rubber fuel lines too even though they looked fine.  I also while I had the intake off changed my injectors out to 4 pintle disk injectors Bosch Gen 3 (0 280 155 746).  These were exact drop in replacement and as I read on the forums they work perfectly.  My old ones were some of the crustiest parts I have pulled off the car.  I also added a oil catch can in-betwixt the valve cover PCV and the nipple on the bottom of the throttle body.  I am curious to see what that thing catches.  As a final I painted up the big aluminum parts since I had them off.

Hope this helps someone else with this job.  It was very easy compared to doing the timing case swap.  The colored diagram on here was printed and taped to my windshield during this entire project; that was great.

I will attach the photo of my silicone bypass hose and the almost finished product that shows my routing and location of my oil catch can (that it may help others).
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slimbim on December 28, 2023, 01:56:46 AM
Perhaps nobody will ever read this but for what its worth i did this MUTI delete on my first e30 318is, and on my current one (going for sale next year) i will be replacing everything as from the factory with new parts. Installing some hokey hoses and not having it fit factory, as well as zero benefit from deleting the TB heater plate, is not worth it to me. However, if you wanna do it, its easy when youre in there
Title: Re: The mess under the intake
Post by: Slimbim on April 14, 2024, 01:25:19 AM
Perhaps nobody will ever read this but for what its worth i did this MUTI delete on my first e30 318is, and on my current one (going for sale next year) i will be replacing everything as from the factory with new parts. Installing some hokey hoses and not having it fit factory, as well as zero benefit from deleting the TB heater plate, is not worth it to me. However, if you wanna do it, its easy when youre in there

Im just redoing this again and im going full oem parts with the system intact. I cannot get the fricken upper manifold off for some reason. And theres no guidance except a dead link. Gonna try again tomorrow. My last 318is i could take it all down in 10 mins i did it so many times. Dont know why im struggling this time