there's my ITBs, but they've been done to death on here really by now? Can post pics again if reqd?
Links shoudl be sufficent, maybe a pic to get 'em ionterested. This is somehting I would love to do very badly. Can i do it when I go turbo? I say that like I actually have plans to.... I need extra money!!!
You can run ITB's with a turbo, but it's pretty much pointless. Once the intake tract is put under pressure, any gains from ITB's would be negated.
That's not entirely true. A motor that flows better will make more power period with the same amount of boost.
definetly a n00b question but what are the advantages for using ITB's?
looks very good!
I found this few days ago http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/itb/
It was pretty driveable in all conditions, it was the aftermarket ECU that let it down. I could not map megasquirt so that it would drive as well as factory.
I'd say my car with MS and ITBs drove as nice if not better than factory in most conditions, apart from slow moving traffic and idle, especially when the inlet temps hiked up.
In my experience, I've noticed diy itb's are easier to tune for steady state cruising or higher rpm operation. Not necessarily the case with lower rpm and rock steady idle.
Are you using a Vacuum canister? If not, I found using one can help with the idle situation of ITB's. Really easy to construct out of PVC pipe, end caps, and some fittings from the hardware store
I just don't really see many issues with running ITBs on a daily driver car; the difficult bit imo is getting the management right. Which in a roundabout way i think is similar to what you're saying, but i think its an important distinction.
the s14 has ITB's. and while the s2000 might now have itb's it just have a better designed intake system. rather then redesigning a full intake system to utilize just one throttle body why not use 4? Better flow, better throttle response. Everyone pics the mods that they feel like doing, whether its building a stroker motor or a forced induction motor, some people want to build ITB's some go other ways for the power. However i see no downside in making your engine more efficient, Plus, the m42 needs all the help it can get for power.
hey guys do a little search about brandnew yamaha R1 ITB's they have a solinoid to make the Tubes longer for low end torque and high rpm power AWESOME!!!!
Alot of people recently seems to be addressing intake and exhaust enhancements but I think a lot of them often overlook the headwork and/or more agressive cams needed to really make any intake/exhaust mods worthwhile.
It doesn't make sense to me on why someone would spend the money/time/effort/frustrations on an ITB setup if they don't even have headwork or cams to end up with minimal gains.
Yes S14 does indeed have ITB's BUT:
1. It has 0,5 (0,7 in EVO sport) liter larger capacity than bog standard M42
I was going to use the Hayabusa set up but after much thought I chose to get some Euro E36 M3 ITB,s like the ones Tim_s has and make them work on my engine. It was a good decision I think.
hey boy im new here and i have a e36 318is stock but i dont know what to do with it i want to run fastttt!!!! waht i shut do????????
Original equipment EFI systems are configured to meet very stringent emission regulations and to provide "soft" driveability characteristics. Positioning the injector as close to the inlet valve is beneficial in this respect. Maximum power however, is usually obtained by moving the injector away from the inlet valve, some racing engine manufacturers going as far as to mount the injector high in the velocity stack and others installing two injectors, designed to operate at different RPM. When TWM designed the throttle bodies our engineers were not in favor of having high pressure fuel on the atmosphere side of the throttle plate, although this could have resulted in some power increase. We compromised by mounting the injector as far from the cylinder head as possible while still maintaining the safety afforded by keeping the fuel downstream of the butterfly.
actually, can we get an update etc where everybody is at with this?
why you dont use something like that?? direct bolt on for the 318is e30/e36! they also have the enginemanagement and the maps.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/db10010005.jpg)
I have fitted a set of Toyota 4age 20V ITB's to my M40 motor, fitted a Custom Exhaust branch and s/s system, used a M20 325i flywheel and clutch, and used a aftermarket EMU, the motor now pushes out 181 BHP.
I will post some pics if anyone is interested in the ITB setup? it is a cheap option as a set cost me £100 and you use the standard injectors!!
cheers
I have fitted a set of Toyota 4age 20V ITB's to my M40 motor, fitted a Custom Exhaust branch and s/s system, used a M20 325i flywheel and clutch, and used a aftermarket EMU, the motor now pushes out 181 BHP.
I will post some pics if anyone is interested in the ITB setup? it is a cheap option as a set cost me £100 and you use the standard injectors!!
cheers
I know this kinda goes against the point of this thread but what advantages does ITB have over just one HUGE one. I'm sure a Huge throttle body and huge plenum will flow just as good as ITBs. Shoot me down:D
Going by what i've read, longer runners means the intake is tuned for a lower rpm while shorter is for higher. ITB's vertually have no runners so i'm assuming they do not utalize these pulses - there just going for max flow. Also, the stock intake has pritty long runners. Do you know what rpm range BMW was tuning the intake for.
I have some questions about ITB's to disscus with you guys here ....
shorter runners are good for high rpms and longer for low -mid rpms we all ready know why ....
so...
1. Why m3 e36 3.0 with 286hp use long runners and m3 3.0 GT's with 290hp and m3 3.2 with 321hp use sort runners? some 3.0litre people upgrade the runners with EVO ones.
2. e30 m3's have 8.5 litre intake plenum for 2.0-2.5 litre engines. We need big intake plenums?
3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?
4. dbillas desing use short runners and small plenum and far away the butterfly from the valve . what about this?
5. every m3 have the Maf in the center of the plenum (dbillas too) CSL;s and every other plenum i have see it have the maf boot in the front. which is better?
6. some engines uses metal runners and some others use plastic ones . which is better?
one more
7. how long it has to be the runner in to the plenum ? does it matter ? dbillas does not put the runner in the plenum why?
only this for the momment .
(sorry for my "inglish" )
1. Why m3 e36 3.0 with 286hp use long runners and m3 3.0 GT's with 290hp and m3 3.2 with 321hp use sort runners? some 3.0litre people upgrade the runners with EVO ones.
2. e30 m3's have 8.5 litre intake plenum for 2.0-2.5 litre engines. We need big intake plenums?
3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?
4. dbillas desing use short runners and small plenum and far away the butterfly from the valve . what about this?
5. every m3 have the Maf in the center of the plenum (dbillas too) CSL;s and every other plenum i have see it have the maf boot in the front. which is better?
6. some engines uses metal runners and some others use plastic ones . which is better?
7. how long it has to be the runner in to the plenum ? does it matter ? dbillas does not put the runner in the plenum why?
3.2 engine revs little bit higher so to tune intake for it, runners must be shorter. Also, 3.2 engine has double vanos (I think) which should give more power in low and middle range so intake system can be more optimized to give more power on high revs.
modify the runner length is a way to change the power curve... longer runner usually means power/torque gains translated lower on rpm than before :)
now I don't know about those guys you mentioned but you don't specify where (at wich revs) they were searching for more power ;)
even the runner diameter/shape can have a huge role when searching for more power as the intake ports on the head... all need to be engineered as a whole system. A runner is not only a runner... it's diameter or it's optimal lenght depends from intake port size and from plenum shape and size. If then you change the plenum of if you heavily enlarge ports in the head maybe you'll need to change the runners... I had a lot of fun "playing" with pricey engine simulators of a friend's shop and there are a lot of variables in game.
the real queation is...
how much $$$ for the itb setup?
I have some questions about ITB's to disscus with you guys here ....
shorter runners are good for high rpms and longer for low -mid rpms we all ready know why ....
3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?
Thought you guys may appreciate a link to my ITB build thread. Sorry it is on another forum. I may copy it across if there is loys of interest.
http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index.php?showtopic=28044
Includes CFD analysis of the dbilas plenum and an intended but not yet produced replacement.
post it up, I cant wait to see it.
holy shiet man, how does it feel? how does it compare to the Pulse chambers that you had before. (gas mileage change?)
No comparison, more power and it revs like a banshee up to ~7500 with the associated s/w.
ITBs > any non FI intake system.
My mileage is surprisingly the same.
so looking at some set ups and one listed on this page, says there running s50 tb's via an air box and running the stock maf/afm is this possible?
from what ive gathered you can run 19.5lb 204cc Bosch injectors which the o2 sensor will accomadate and then run higher lift cams with a remap. so can i also on top of this run itbs on stock ecu? i really dont want to get in depth with Ms as if i had to id just do a straight turbo setup as running ms just to have itbs seems pointless for what its worth.
Hey Nivola, that looks awesome. Do you ever come out to the Bay Area for meets or anything? I'd love to get a closer look and talk car stuff!
I was clearing out my inbox of old emails and thought I would add this here.
here's the link to their website: http://www.gttechnic.com/catalog.html
We make an adapter for the head that makes it possible to fit the S54 throttle bodies. Cost is $375. You have to get used TBs from a wrecked E46 M3 and then you keep the car all BMW. You can get them for about $750 with the linkages. This makes it more affordable and a cleaner installation.
In the picture I don't have the fuel rail installed, but get the injectors along with the TBs, fuel rail and air tube. You have to fab a few things, but these are all easy tasks.
Donald
GT Technic
just spotted these two images on speedhunters (http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/02/15/event-gt-gt-omega-oil-tsukuba-soukoukai-pt3.aspx) ...
(http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/2011/FEB2011/OmegaO-PT3/IMG_0190.jpg)
Does anybody has more info on those itb's?
with no filter...it will be noisy as hell i think.
It's missing also the heater and stuff (no need in a track car)
Any further info 'bout the car will be welcome too!
Hi Sjoerd,okay thank for the reply :)
Stock ecu is capable but would need a tune. You can run alpha-n (I am) but its not a requirement for a ITB setup..
Yes, you can change cams and tune with the stock ECU. If you go with high lift and long duration cams your idle will probably be a little higher but the engine should still run smoothly. I would go by the recommendation of the cam company as to what springs you should use.i would buy evrething from dbilas. the itb's, cams, springs and mechanical lifters. but what is the best valve lift for 262° cam's used for street driving (i wouldn't realy race it) i can choose between 10.2 vale lift or 11.3
Cheers,
~Ralph
Ok. My first thought would be why would you want mechanical/solid lifters? If its strictly for the street and you don't plan on hitting 8K RPM or above on a regular basis then I would stick with the hydraulic lifters. If you go solid, you need to take out your cams and lifters each time you want to do a valve adjustment.what rpm's can i do with the original hydrolic lifters? if i ceep the limiter at 6250rpm do i get the full benifits of the new cams? and dbilas advises 262* with 10.2mm lift for street use, 262*with 11.3 for sport.
For the street I would stick with the 262* 10.2mm lift cams. Or you can offset the cams as well to keep the torque band lower in the rpm's for daily driving. Cam selection is the hardest choice to make for the engine. It all depends on how you'll be driving. Dbilas should give you a better answer for your question other than just mentioning they have 2 cam choices available for your engine because they need to spec out the chip for you as well. Tell them how you'll be driving the car and ask them what they recommend.
Cheers,
~Ralph
Most M42 chips limiters are raised to 7100 on the market. A custom tune is always the best if you have someone near you that can tune eprom chips. If Dbilas has a set up with their specific cams you can definitely chose to go that route. A chip is much cheaper than a tune.i wil hear what dbilas has to say. and can i still get e (fine) tune when i would hae the dbilas chip?
Cheers,
~Ralph
If you mean a good tune, I'm sure Dbilas has a good tune for there products, but I have never had one of their chips. If you mean getting a new tune after getting there chip, then I would say why bother getting their chip in the first place. Talk to some of your local tuners in your area and see what they say as well.okeythank you.
Cheers,
~Ralph
My set up just completed and now running.(http://i.imgur.com/aIriOi8.jpg) (http://imgur.com/aIriOi8)
Dbilas throttles with custom carbon airbox with internal staggered trumpets. Tuned on aftermarket ECU. Exhaust is a custom equal length header (RHD) and 2.5 inch exhaust. All DIY made.(http://i.imgur.com/bNw74kl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/bNw74kl)Dyno pending
e36 m3 itb's. i had a spare m42 head so could work out where everything had to go without taking the inlet off my car. i removed the centre pair of throttle bodies and used the 2 outside pairs, cut down the throttle linkage and fuel rail then had to have 2 pieces of aluminium welded to the bodies where the studs didn't line up. the ports matched great but the studs needed re drilling. i used the m3 tps and injectors and the engine started ok without the air flow meter but was too rough to driveHi
https://youtu.be/JkjyEIHgQLE
the trumpets were made from exhaust tube and egg cup holders (very low budget)
i didn't want to run the restrictive afm so i made a loom and fitted a DTA ecu. once mapped it ran really well, it sounded lovely but didn't make much more power than standard. it was fun to do and cost very little apart from the ecu. the biggest gain was in the sound it made, it sounded like 200 bhp
i will post pictures when i can work out how to make them smaller